Wood smoke as a room spray?

[Chris Bartlett]

I’ve just put this up on my own blog, but I suspect I may get a better informed response here:

Anyone who has ever sat around a campfire will have memories associated with the smell of wood-smoke, hopefully good ones . . .

If like me you also have the good fortune to have an open fire at home, you may have shared my disappointment that you don’t really ever get the same effect indoors - in fact I find myself going outside on winters evenings just to appreciate the scent of the wood burning in our fire as it drifts across the night-time garden. OK so that is slightly barmy I admit, but I bet I’m not the only one.

And of course if you do end up with the smoke indoors - when a log rolls off the grate and onto the hearth for example - you quickly appreciate what a fine job the chimney is doing after all and hastily get the tongs and put the log back where it belongs.

I’ve been working for a while on making a fragrance that would give the ability to have that lovely scent of wood-smoke indoors without any . . . well, smoke. I’ve got it as a Room Spray at the moment and I’m wondering about a Reed Diffuser too - any views?

Am I the only one who thinks this is a good idea or is a there a real market for it?

 

[blacksun]

I would like to see something like this on the market. Perhaps such a thing already exists, but I haven't seen/smelled it. Of course there will be some people who give the knee-jerk "I don't want the smell of smoke in my house!" reaction, but it seems like a lot of people enjoy the waft of leaf/wood smoke in the cool fall air. Yankee Candle tried to capture something like what you're talking about in their "Fireside" scented candle, but I think they missed it.

 

[Chris Bartlett]

Thanks - yes I’ve seen a couple of candles and I agree they don’t really do it. I’m not yet certain I’ll be able to make the smoke effect come off with a reed diffuser, but it does work with a spray.

 

[RedRaider430]

Interesting concept. Are you thinking a smoke only smell, or are you thinking of adding a touch of something to it (a la Creed's idea with their Aventus scent of smoke and pineapple)?

I just can't see that a smoke only smell would a successful carry over to something in the house. We can appreciate certain smells, but many are particular to the setting. We've learned to associate smells our whole life. So even if someone found the smell of a campfire appealing, it's still an outside smell. That same person might be appalled to have that same smell in their house.

A smoke only smell, to me, isn't pleasant. For instance, after I barbecue outside, I can invariably smell the smoke from the fire very strongly on me while I'm eating and I don't like it at all. But if that smell was toned down a bit and and another fragrance was added (pineapple or what have you), it might make the next great perfume.

 

[Chris Bartlett]

Thanks for that Red, you’ve set me off down a new track now.

This started because I’m working with an education group who wanted to have some scents to illustrate stories and examples - one of those they asked for was wood-smoke and when I’d made it I found I really liked it and wanted to use it round the house: so then I wondered if it might be worth developing into a product to add to my range . . . hence the question here.

Now I’m thinking the same basic mix, with an added extra, might make a really interesting personal fragrance too. I’ll have to re-forumulate to make it skin-safe and IFRA compliant but that’s not too hard to do.

I know exactly what you mean about the post-barbeque smell on your clothes and I also hate it, but that isn’t at all what fresh wood-smoke smells like, which is what I’ve tried to capture. So far people who’ve smelt it seem to like it, but of course that isn’t the same as saying it will sell.

Thanks for the input - I really appreciate it.

 

[Master-Classter]

you're not crazy, this is a very good idea...

http://boisdejasmin.typepad.com/_/2...hn-galliano-candle-and-room-spray-review.html
http://www.diptyqueparis.co.uk/feu-de-bois-room-spray.html

http://www.makeupalley.com/product/...90/Feu_de_Bois_room_spray/Diptyque/Fragrances
http://www.makeupalley.com/product/showreview.asp?ItemID=50593

(doesn't mean you can't improve on it)


related:
http://www.cbihateperfume.com/smoke-series.html
http://www.cbihateperfume.com/burning-leaves.html
http://www.sonomascentstudio.com/firesideintense.shtml

 

[Chris Bartlett]

Thanks very much for that collection of links - I’d seen some of the candles before but not the room spray.

I did know that CB did a burning series, but his fragrances are rather specialised - bottles of memory more than background atmospherics - and it’s the latter I’m hoping to create.

The Sonoma though looks quite similar in concept to where I was going - happily they have it as a personal fragrance rather than a home one, so perhaps I can capture that market yet. Clearly I’m neither alone in the idea nor bonkers though so that’s reassuring.

Enlightening!

 

[oakman]

You really need to get some Diptyque Feu de Bois , it is a perfect wood smoke , elegant and refined , doesnt smell like the kitchen is on fire ! The other product you would really love is some wood burning blocks , from http://www.inscents.com/ who sell Incienso de Santa Fe products . I use these and one block will fill the house with the sweet smell of woodsmoke , everyone comments how nice it smells when they come in . I have ordered them in bulk as the shipping is a little steep but it is well worth it ! Message me if you want some more info on them , not affiliated to them though just a passionate customer .

 

[Chris Bartlett]

Thanks for that Red, you’ve set me off down a new track now.

This started because I’m working with an education group who wanted to have some scents to illustrate stories and examples - one of those they asked for was wood-smoke and when I’d made it I found I really liked it and wanted to use it round the house: so then I wondered if it might be worth developing into a product to add to my range . . . hence the question here.

Now I’m thinking the same basic mix, with an added extra, might make a really interesting personal fragrance too. I’ll have to re-forumulate to make it skin-safe and IFRA compliant but that’s not too hard to do.

I know exactly what you mean about the post-barbeque smell on your clothes and I also hate it, but that isn’t at all what fresh wood-smoke smells like, which is what I’ve tried to capture. So far people who’ve smelt it seem to like it, but of course that isn’t the same as saying it will sell.

Thanks for the input - I really appreciate it.

I’m giving this a quick bump to say that I’ve done the Room Spray version and it’s now available to buy (with thanks to a Basenoter who gave me the necessary final push to put it onto the site!).

Reed diffusers I’m still working on and ditto the personal fragrance (which will be combined with other, as yet secret, things), which I plan to release in the Autumn if all goes to plan.

Once again thanks for all the help everyone who commented, it really makes a difference.

Chris

 

[LA2000]

I think the marketing may prove challenging. The idea I love.

In 2006, I was shopping at a discounter and picking up a basket full of high end room sprays that were being sold for $10 each. I ended up with practically the entire line of Catherine Memmi sprays and candles among others, but sitting in one corner was a stack of room sprays from Miller Harris, a brand I was completely unfamiliar with at the time. The main fragrance in the stack was a room fragrance called "Bois Fume". I sprayed it, immediately understood it to be woodsmoke, but didn't really know what to make of it and decided to pass. Weeks later, my mind kept returning to that scent, but by the time I returned to the store it was sold out. And of course, it has been long discontinued and I have regretted it ever since. And it is one of the reasons I continue to circle the Cire Trudon "Empire" candle every time I am at the candle store: it reminds me of the scent of "Bois Fume." (And if I am not mistaken, "Empire" is one of the scents that Cire Trudon did not attempt to translate into a room spray.)

So I guess the moral of the story is that even Miller Harris and Cire Trudon have had some difficulty getting customers on board with this idea.

I think one of the challenging aspects is that people associate smoke with something dirty, damaged, or unclean, which is the opposite of the impression most people strive for. Most people want fresh and clean homes. It may serve you to wrap the "woodsmoke concept" in a name that allows people to approach the idea from a more receptive association: something like "Lapsang Souchong Tea" or "Tarry Souchong" conjure associations which, while rich with that very same woodsmoke, give the idea a more comforting, "inside the home" context. (This is not about changing the scent itself, only contextualizing it in a way that alllows customers to be more receptive.) A name change might also allow you to differentiate your product from the "Feu de Bois" Diptyque line.

In any case, I think the idea of a woodsmoke based interiors fragrance is a great one. If it lands at a retailer in Los Angeles, let me know. I'd love to give it a sniff!

 

[Chris Bartlett]

Thanks for this fascinating and detailed analysis, which I really appreciate and largely agree with.

As far as marketing the room spray is concerned, I suppose I take two different views of this:

1) I’m in business to make fragrances that appeal to me and that some people will love. I don’t mind if that means some people hate them or just don’t want them: one of the joys of being a small, independent player in this business is that I don’t have a marketing department or focus groups that I have to satisfy.

2) On the other hand if it does not sell I won’t be making much of it and if nothing sells I’ll soon go out of business so . . . I’ve been giving this some thought and I’m currently talking to a hotel about using the smoke fragrance in public areas that are adjacent to the outdoor smoking stations, where the sweet, incense, smoky smell helps to cover the smell of stale tobacco drifting in from outside, more effectively than a conventional room-spray would do.

I do agree it’s not an easy sell and it may prove impossible to sustain, but for now it’s a part of the range I’m rather pleased with.

I love your idea of the name and I think the next batch will go out as Lapasang Souchong room spray - thank you!

I don’t currently sell through any mass-market retailers - only direct and through other small businesses like my own - and I don’t sell to North America for insurance reasons. Nevertheless I’m happy to send you a sample if you drop me a PM with your address.

 

[LA2000]

Chris: I received your "Woodsmoke" sample and...wow! I actually think you have something special here and, to my nose, it has a very different profile from "Feu de Bois" or "Bois Fume." What makes it stand apart is, for lack of a better description, the underlying "cleanliness." Behind the very accurate, dry and predominate woodsmoke, there is a hint of freshness that I associate with clean, new leather and a slightly green and water-y element that adds a trace of clean air and the outdoors. You have managed to avoid the cold, dirty, ashy quality that first fed my hesitation when I tried "Bois Fume" and you never veer into the sweet "bacon" territory of "Essence of John Galliano".

"Woodsmoke" brings to mind a favorite store of mine in Los Angeles (sadly, no longer with us since the 2008 crash) that sold furniture imported from Asian and Africa. The store was, itself, pristine and contemporary, a gallery really, but the air had a smokey ambiance from the way the woods had been finished and treated. So the store would carry this lovely duality of fresh, modern, and new along with an air of something dark, woody, and smokey that spoke to the history of the pieces and the world from which they had been created. The combination was really striking and always left an impression.

In addition to homes, I can see this working quite well in any public space that wants to impart a subtle sense of "history" without coming across as unkempt or run down, because the overall impression isn't at all blunt or heavy handed. It creates a lovely ambiance that suggests fires once enjoyed that still linger in the fresh air, rather than, as with "Bois Fume", standing straight over an active chimney. You might even want to look into developing your own version of the Frederic Malle "Scent Gun" for public space use, because I can see this working very nicely in a designer hotel lobby (like The Clift San Francisco or The Hudson NYC) or bar.

Great job!

 

[Chris Bartlett]

Thank you so much for this review - I’m very pleased that you like it.

Do feel free to spray some in your favourite hotel lobby and refer them to me if they like it too! I’m not (yet) in the business of supplying international hotels direct, but I’m sure an arrangement could be made with a larger fragrance manufacturer if there was demand. The perfume gun is interesting too - I’d not previously considered anything on quite that scale, but if could certainly be done.

The story you describe of the furniture store is very evocative - do you write for a living?

 

[Possum-Pie]

Chris, This fascinates me. Smoke is a fragrance that needs to be approached delicately. The smell of a distant wood fire on a winter evening is wonderful. I drink Lapsang Souchong tea, and it is wonderfully subtle. Incense such as balsam, while pleasant, is often too overpowering in a home, so a spray would be great. I have wanted to smell the diptyque smoke scented candle, but am not willing to pay $60 for something I have never smelled. I saw your website with the larger bottles for sale. There may be a real market for this here in America where the "rugged camping idea" is embraced. Do you sell small samples?

 

[itsthepens]

I've been following my nose through a few smoky fragrances over the last couple of years, and this afternoon I smelled a whiff of autumn bonfire drifting through my open window. I have always adored the smell of smoke, right back to being a child at my grandparents house with their open fire in the drawing room. I decided to google for wood smoke room scents and came across a link to this thread - what a wonderful thing to find out that I'm not the only one who craves such a thing!

Chris, I've had a look at your site and I must say I'm very impressed. I wonder - might it be possible to have a tiny sample of the Woodsmoke room fragrance?

 

[Possum-Pie]

I've been following my nose through a few smoky fragrances over the last couple of years, and this afternoon I smelled a whiff of autumn bonfire drifting through my open window. I have always adored the smell of smoke, right back to being a child at my grandparents house with their open fire in the drawing room. I decided to google for wood smoke room scents and came across a link to this thread - what a wonderful thing to find out that I'm not the only one who craves such a thing!

Chris, I've had a look at your site and I must say I'm very impressed. I wonder - might it be possible to have a tiny sample of the Woodsmoke room fragrance?

Thanks for "bumping" this thread...I too have tried alot of smoke scents that have fallen short. Since my above post 4 months ago, I have bought some candle scents called Campfire and log cabin, both fell short in the subtle outdoorsy smell. I want to try diptyques smoke candle...Fue de Bois

 

[Chris Bartlett]

Gents,
Thanks for the interest.

Sorry I've not been paying attention to this thread for a while - if you'd like a sample I'm happy to send a small amount as long as you can cover the cost of postage it's yours with pleasure (or in your case itsthepens perhaps we can meet in London - I'm there again next week).

Just drop me a line here or through my website with your details and I'll sort out the details with you.

 

[sbbbjm]

i like to burn Japanese incense when i want my home to have a clean wood smoke smell. my favorite brand is Shoyeido. they have a few different scents but my go to is called "Great Origin." it's the darkest and most dry of the bunch. think of it like CDG Kyoto but smokier.

now that i think about it, they all smell like a variation of Kyoto, since Kyoto was designed to mimic Japanese incense in the first place lol.

keep in mind, these are a far cry from the overly sweet, cheapy nag champa that you get from the grocery store. i buy the Shoyeido Daily Incense line and they run between $2.50-$4.00 (35 sticks that last about 45 min) depending on the scent, and then they have one that has a bit of agarwood that will run about $10.

 

[Possum-Pie]

i like to burn Japanese incense when i want my home to have a clean wood smoke smell. my favorite brand is Shoyeido. they have a few different scents but my go to is called "Great Origin." it's the darkest and most dry of the bunch. think of it like CDG Kyoto but smokier.

now that i think about it, they all smell like a variation of Kyoto, since Kyoto was designed to mimic Japanese incense in the first place lol.

keep in mind, these are a far cry from the overly sweet, cheapy nag champa that you get from the grocery store. i buy the Shoyeido Daily Incense line and they run between $2.50-$4.00 (35 sticks that last about 45 min) depending on the scent, and then they have one that has a bit of agarwood that will run about $10.

Thanks, Sbbbjm, I'll have to try that. My stepdaughter is in Nagano, Japan teaching English, Maybe I should have her keep her eyes and nose open for the scent I want...

 

[LA2000]

Chris - I certainly think you are on to something with the woodsmoke idea. I thought of you the other day when I tried Naomi Goodsir's "Bois d'Ascese" for the first time: billowing clouds of woodsmoke, very, very dry, built around a bit of incense and a few other elements to make it wearable. But the woodsmoke is definitely at the center of everything, it is the star player, and this particular woodsmoke did remind me a lot of your work on the room fragrance. It certainly isn't an exact duplication, but it is close enough to bring you to mind when I smelled it.

Everyone seems to be raving about "Bois d'Ascese" so you may indeed be onto the next big thing!

 

[edshepp]

Well, I guess I might as well put my 2 cents in. There's absolutely a market for a scent that gets woodsmoke right. I've always liked Feu de Bois by Diptyque, and I've also liked the Henri Bendel Firewood candle, although I also think that smells more in the leathery direction. It reminds me of Helmut Lang's Cuiron. My sister once told me that she'd been looking for a smell that could recreate the fireplace smell and never found one that smelled very true.

On a side note, I did own Burning Leaves by Demeter a long time ago. It was fine until I smelled it one day while thinking of barbecue-flavor potato chips. From that moment on it smelled like smoke flavor, as it were, instead of dry smoke in the air. Just an illustration of how one needs to be careful with his smoke notes.