Why must fragrances be reformulated?

Keppy

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2014
Am having a bad experience with a bottle of Joop! Homme I blind bought earlier this month and am not getting the kick out of it as was expected. It was poor on my skin. So I put 2 sprays on a shirt and left it overnight and by morning, I can't still smell Joop! Homme on it. I told myself "THIS IS NOT THE JOOP! HOMME I HAVE BEING READING ABOUT".

Was Joop! Homme reformulated at anytime?
Is the colour of the juice lighter?
Why should they reformulate (nice) fragrances?
 

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EddieG

Well-known member
Feb 19, 2014
I own a 1Oz bottle of Joop! And I hate it =(

Not sure when it was made but one spray on my arm is too cloying for me.

But to answer your question, fragrances are reforumlated for many reasons.

EU regulations put limits on what ingredients can be used in fragrances, like Oakmoss, which is apparently tied to allergies. Companies then find alternative ingredients for their fragrances.

Same thing applies if certain ingredients become too expensive to use over time. So they find alternatives, usually synthtics.

Sometimes, with classic fragrances, they attempt to modernize the scent to appeal to new generations following certain scent trends, so as to continue selling their classic but adapt with the times.

And sometimes, it's cheaper for companies to water down their scents, so they reforumlated them. And will profit more.
 

hednic

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2007
But to answer your question, fragrances are reforumlated for many reasons.

EU regulations put limits on what ingredients can be used in fragrances, like Oakmoss, which is apparently tied to allergies. Companies then find alternative ingredients for their fragrances.

Same thing applies if certain ingredients become too expensive to use over time. So they find alternatives, usually synthtics.

Sometimes, with classic fragrances, they attempt to modernize the scent to appeal to new generations following certain scent trends, so as to continue selling their classic but adapt with the times.

And sometimes, it's cheaper for companies to water down their scents, so they reforumlated them. And will profit more.
Well stated.
 

Bigsly

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2008
There are a bunch of threads on this subject so just do some basic searching. My perception of Joop! Homme is that the sandalwood note was removed, and now it's more muddled and not especially pleasant. However, if this is accurate, it might have been done because they did some testing and most people prefer this to the older formulation, for all I know.
 

Keppy

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2014
EddieG, that was so complete. I think I will just go with modern releases, because these "classics" disappoint people many times, plus Cool Water.
 

Keppy

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2014
There are a bunch of threads on this subject so just do some basic searching. My perception of Joop! Homme is that the sandalwood note was removed, and now it's more muddled and not especially pleasant. However, if this is accurate, it might have been done because they did some testing and most people prefer this to the older formulation, for all I know.

okay.
 

Bigsly

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2008
EddieG, that was so complete. I think I will just go with modern releases, because these "classics" disappoint people many times, plus Cool Water.

That's certainly a great idea if you like them. I already have plenty of vintage so I don't even need any more for the rest of my life, assuming the bottles don't get stolen, etc. If I had to wear recent releases, I'd likely only be wearing stuff like Playboy London, Jacomo Rouge, Jacomo for Men, Yacht Man Chocolate, and other "cheapos." They are pleasant and I don't have to be irritated by spending $70 or more for a "chemical mess" or "iso e super nightmare" scent, especially blind buying.
 

Renaissance_Man

Well-known member
Feb 26, 2006
If I had to wear recent releases, I'd likely only be wearing stuff like Playboy London, Jacomo Rouge, Jacomo for Men, Yacht Man Chocolate, and other "cheapos." They are pleasant and I don't have to be irritated by spending $70 or more for a "chemical mess" or "iso e super nightmare" scent, especially blind buying.

To the OP,
Actually, Joop! Homme is one of the reformulated ones that isn't so bad. There are many more that were completely ruined and changed. But I guess each person perceives scents differently. I love strong scents and the current version of JH performs well on me.

I also agree with Bigsly's statement. Current offerings are becoming very boring out there. I'm not saying I'd be wearing all cheapies but given the price and quality of most current offerings, you might as well venture out a bit. I have a lot of niche that I wouldn't replace once I'm out.

Personally, I find myself sampling more and more of less expensive and obscure brands. I get to experience much more variety this way and unsuccessful blind buys aren't such big losses. Even a few unsuccessful ones are still cheaper than one expensive selection which would still not give me monumental pleasure.
 

HankHarvey

Well-known member
Jul 15, 2014
Still get sandalwood quite clearly in Joop! Homme' base, but gotta go easy on it - really easy.
Frags in general get reformulated all the time, but we only notice when they deliberately weaken a fragrance that used to be strong, probably a bit of a powerhouse. I think trends in fashion have something to do with that. These days people don't mind a gentle whiff or two, but they get cranky if they smell you before you enter the room.

Green irish tweed has been reformulated, but you don't see very much discussion about it. That's because it's still strong as hell.
 

Bigsly

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2008
There are at least three different possibilities with Joop! Homme, and even if you tried those, it's still possible old liquid was put in a new bottle or vice versa, so one needs to keep this in mind. First there was Joop!, then Lancaster, and finally Coty, with different bottle designs. However, not long ago I saw a Coty sticker on what I thought was a Lancaster formulation, and it's possible that is still quite a good scent (whether or not an old batch was used). It has also been claimed that Giorgio for Men by GBH was formulated twice by EA, which one can discern by the color of the liquid, one being a very good reformulation and the other being quite bad. You just have to read the claims and opinions and decide what risks you are willing to take with blind buying.
 

Keppy

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2014
Still get sandalwood quite clearly in Joop! Homme' base, but gotta go easy on it - really easy.
Frags in general get reformulated all the time, but we only notice when they deliberately weaken a fragrance that used to be strong, probably a bit of a powerhouse. I think trends in fashion have something to do with that. These days people don't mind a gentle whiff or two, but they get cranky if they smell you before you enter the room.

Green irish tweed has been reformulated, but you don't see very much discussion about it. That's because it's still strong as hell.

maybe it was WATERED UP rather than WATERED DOWN.
 

Keppy

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2014
I really think reformulations are driven by profit, trying to use cheaper ingredients and appeal to larger mass ( sales) .

yea, after they must have made huge profit from the first batch of juice.
 
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Aromaphile

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2013
Sometimes it feels like some companies do a deliberate "bait and switch" method by putting out something that's fairly decent, or sometimes really wonderful, and then they strip elements out of it to make that bottom line have bigger numbers after the dollar sign. It's annoying, and it's enough to put me off a house sometimes.
 

Boss

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2014
tumblr_ljrufvFdOj1qc63sno1_400.gif
 

killua

Member
Aug 24, 2014
How much is the cost of the ingredients in a bottle anyway compared to RRP? In terms of percentage?

I've thought that the actual cost of the ingredients is very low compared to the sale price, and that most of the costs that drive up price are related to research & development, marketing and such. If that is the case, I'm not sure how much money they would be saving through a reformulation.
 

drseid

Sound Scents
Basenotes Plus
Jun 1, 2003
This one was unbearably potent and unpleasant smelling in its vintage form to my nose, but I rarely come across it anymore so I can't speak to any reformulation -- that said, it wouldn't surprise me. I'll set aside my thoughts on reformulation as others have covered the general reasons for them here and in many other threads... Obviously I dislike them too generally with one or two exceptions, but they are a way of life, like it or not.

As to being disappointed in buying current versions of the classics, there of course is another way... Buy the vintage versions. Obviously this is no guarantee you won't still be disappointed and may require more effort in tracking them down, but at least you will have confidence that what you are smelling is close to what was originally intended (save maybe some of the top notes evaporating occasionally). There are plenty of vintage values out there on the aftermarket that sell for less than the retail prices of current releases (sometimes far less), no reason to have to put up with a lot of the watered down, frequently bland releases of today unless those are what you seek. The key is identifying what your preferences are. As an aside, you certainly picked a polarizing powerhouse to start with, as just as many will run from a room with Joop! Homme as will love it (but those that love it, tend to *really* love it). Good luck!
 

mumsy

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Jan 31, 2010
I really think reformulations are driven by profit, trying to use cheaper ingredients and appeal to larger mass ( sales) .

Yes, plus the double whammy of IFRA and the EU laws put together. There is little left untouched by regs anymore. Plus it's only perfumistas seeking the unusual and different. Jo Public is quite happy with the generic ponk in a fancy bottle.

The sales figures tell the story. I mean One Direction over Chanel 5..... pleeeeeese!
 

Keppy

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2014
This one was unbearably potent and unpleasant smelling in its vintage form to my nose, but I rarely come across it anymore so I can't speak to any reformulation -- that said, it wouldn't surprise me. I'll set aside my thoughts on reformulation as others have covered the general reasons for them here and in many other threads... Obviously I dislike them too generally with one or two exceptions, but they are a way of life, like it or not.

As to being disappointed in buying current versions of the classics, there of course is another way... Buy the vintage versions. Obviously this is no guarantee you won't still be disappointed and may require more effort in tracking them down, but at least you will have confidence that what you are smelling is close to what was originally intended (save maybe some of the top notes evaporating occasionally). There are plenty of vintage values out there on the aftermarket that sell for less than the retail prices of current releases (sometimes far less), no reason to have to put up with a lot of the watered down, frequently bland releases of today unless those are what you seek. The key is identifying what your preferences are. As an aside, you certainly picked a polarizing powerhouse to start with, as just as many will run from a room with Joop! Homme as will love it (but those that love it, tend to *really* love it). Good luck!

Thanks drseid!
 

andoy

Member
Jan 25, 2015
many popular perfumes (and cosmetics) were reformulated after major change in EU regs in Jul 2013. The regs allowed old formulations to be still be sold, but anything produced after that date had to comply. Some managed to reformulate without noticable difference, but it is a very difficult task if major ingredient/s are banned or limited to such small quantities. Some of the essential oils with allergens on EU watch list are now becoming rare.

I imagine it takes a while for old stocks to run down and the new formulated versions to reach consumers in some areas.
 

domenico

Member
Jun 24, 2015
I have the same bottle ordered from Fragrancex, and supposed to get the vintage one :sad:, unfortunately got the new formula.. it's a very bad scent, very soft and definitely a skin scent.. the old formula has HOMME at the top of the bottle.
 

radix023

Well-known member
Apr 4, 2006
Two of the reasons were covered: money/cheapness, and allergens, but there are two more: an ingredient gets declared carcinogenic or the origin of an ingredient is declared endangered (ambergris). I had thought that civet cat musk was for endangered, but wikipedia says they linked it to SARS....
 

The Islands

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2015
I own a 1Oz bottle of Joop! And I hate it =(

Not sure when it was made but one spray on my arm is too cloying for me.

But to answer your question, fragrances are reforumlated for many reasons.

EU regulations put limits on what ingredients can be used in fragrances, like Oakmoss, which is apparently tied to allergies. Companies then find alternative ingredients for their fragrances.

Same thing applies if certain ingredients become too expensive to use over time. So they find alternatives, usually synthtics.

Sometimes, with classic fragrances, they attempt to modernize the scent to appeal to new generations following certain scent trends, so as to continue selling their classic but adapt with the times.

And sometimes, it's cheaper for companies to water down their scents, so they reforumlated them. And will profit more.

Why can't they make some fragrances in the United States? I'm sure our limits are more lenient than the EU
 

Davem81

Well-known member
Jul 26, 2011
I really think reformulations are driven by profit, trying to use cheaper ingredients and appeal to larger mass ( sales) .

Absolutely this. It isn't just fragrances, it happens across so many different products that I've noticed; food, drink, even chewing gum, my local train company taking away the free newspaper in first class & hoping nobody would notice........it's happening all around us, everyday.
 

Slayerized

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2011
Am having a bad experience with a bottle of Joop! Homme I blind bought earlier this month and am not getting the kick out of it as was expected. It was poor on my skin. So I put 2 sprays on a shirt and left it overnight and by morning, I can't still smell Joop! Homme on it. I told myself "THIS IS NOT THE JOOP! HOMME I HAVE BEING READING ABOUT".

Was Joop! Homme reformulated at anytime?
Is the colour of the juice lighter?
Why should they reformulate (nice) fragrances?

There are indeed 3 different versions like Bigsly said and a when you do a proper search you will find the threads about it.
I own all three formulations and all three are incredibly strong! The first two formulations with 'Homme' written above 'JOOP!' on the front of the bottle are best with a nice sandalwood vibe and a Tobacco-ish like smell which works ok for me in small doses!
Mind that are a lot of fakes of Joop! Homme in 125ml format! I once had one in a lot and it really does not last and smells like sugarish-candy water!
I also think of the last version there are different variations as I read often about the newer Joop! Homme not lasting very well. My version of last formulation is an official tester and is almost as strong as the vintage but just lacks the tobacco vibe, has less cinnamon and a cheaper sandalwood note in the base. It is brighter, more lemon-ish and less cloying and thick but Joop must be used in small doses anyway otherwise it it does not work like it shoul (IMO).
 

Paul H

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2015
I have this theory that the perfumery houses have the capabilities to make scents just as strong as they used to be(case in point: 2014/15 Dior Homme Parfum which runs longer than the Energizer Bunny), but they're utilizing a long- term strategy to weed out and minimize the "grey markets" in order to maximize their profit margins for the long haul. The EU/ IFRA knows what they 're doing and the ones who are being most hurt are the consumers such as us who just want a good scent. However, as a fellow Basenoter said, "Life goes on." Multiple hobbies is the key imho. :):):)
 

Onderbroekenlol

Well-known member
Feb 27, 2015
The only thing that will happen is people just won't buy certain scents anymore,so they will feel it in their pockets,they just sell less and less in my opinion...sad is what it is....
 

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