Why do I not smell the sandalwood?

polysom

Super Member
Apr 4, 2021
I've made a spicy ambery fragrance which I really like. It opens with some Osmanthus, then moves to some nice spicy smell and goes on with some nice amber. I have put some sandalwood materials in, but I am not smelling them. Not at all. And I was wondering why and what to change to make the sandalwood note more present? Thanks.

2.5 Ambreine
1 Hydrocarboresine
0.8 Methyl Diantilis
0.7 Isoeugenol
0.2 Cinnamalva
2 Osmanthus Abs. Synth.
5 Dreamwood
1.7 Grisalva
2.3 Traseolide
12.1 Bacdanol
0.7 Brahmanol
5 Firsantol
19 Vanillin
13.8 Labdanum Resin Abs.
2.7 Olibanum Resinoid
2 Patchouli Abs.
7 Polysantol
2.5 Ebanol
0.6 Myrrh EO
9 Benzoin Resinoid Siam
7 Sylvamber
0.5 Okoumal
1.2 Vetiverol Extra
0.7 Carnation Abs.
 

parker25mv

Basenotes Dependent
Oct 12, 2016
Well, synthetic sandalwood can be a little tricky. Let's just admit it, most of the synthetic sandalwood ACs don't really smell exactly like sandalwood, and are much more mild, having more a "sandalwood-like feel". Sandalwood is a little more complicated, and you might want to try to fully understand sandalwood accords first.
I will note that all the sandalwood ACs you have selected appear to be in the same "group type" of sandalwood ACs.
If you wanted to pack more "punch", you could have relied on javanol, with an addition of some firsantol. But you'll need sandela for the effect of deepness, if you want that olfactory effect. (mysore acetate is another one that may work in your formula)

I wrote much more about this here: sandalwood - different synthetic sandalwoods and why you should combine them together

For some people this might just be too complicated, and you might be better off just buying a pre-made sandalwood accord.

I suspect the other things in your formula are overriding the sandalwood note, so that it is not noticeable. Obviously one possibility to try is to increase the sandalwood ACs to a level where they are more prominent. The other fact is that the mild scent of synthetic sandalwood might just not go very well with other notes that are more dominant, that is a possibility here that you might have to accept.
Cinnamalva is a pretty strong note. You might want to try the formula with cinnamon EO instead and see if that helps at all.
 

mnitabach

Basenotes Dependent
Nov 13, 2020
Paul gave you a good idea for a candidate to test for "running over" your santal. The general principle is that you have to look at similarly tenacious molecules as the santal materials to see what's going on in the late drydown. This fundamentally must be addressed empirically, but I have a few additional guesses as to powerful tenacious molecules present in what (at least superficially) look like overdoses in addition to the whopping dose of vanillin: okoumal, methyl diantilis, carnation. The way to address this IMO is to remove as much of that stuff simultaneously & see if you unveil the santal to your liking. If not, keep removing more stuff. When your santal appears, then you can start adding stuff back.

Looking again, more fundamentally, I think perhaps there is an inescapable conflict what look like multiple compositional goals in the long drydown. You've got a very high dose of traditional lab, benz, van amber accord; a tenacious powerful spicy accord w carnation abs, isoeug, methyl diantilis; additional powerful resins myrrh & olibanum; AND santal accord. It may not be possible to do all these things, all at one time & all strongly. As pointed out by Parker, just by their very natures, these other accords are going to be substantially stronger scents than santal.
 

pkiler

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 5, 2007
Sandalwood is/can be part of an amber accord, but the relative dosage in the accord is small. Frankly, I think it is unreasonable to expect to smell Sandalwood materials in the context of this monstrous amber accord. I think that you should simply abandon the expectation of picking out the sandalwood odor profile in this perfume.
 

polysom

Super Member
Apr 4, 2021
Thanks for your help. I already reduced Vanillin a lot. My starting point was the formulation of Tom Ford's Amber Absolute, which contains even more Vanillin. You have given me a lot of helpful input which will help me to improve my formulation. Thanks.
 

polysom

Super Member
Apr 4, 2021
If I wear this perfume on my skin and something rubs on my clothes, then I can smell the sandalwood massively the next day on my clothes. But never directly in the perfume. Why is that?
 

mnitabach

Basenotes Dependent
Nov 13, 2020
In my experience & to my nose, santal materials are simultaneously very weak & very strong. Their affirmative scent is very subtle & easily obscured by almost anything else in the blend. Yet their effects on blends can be very powerful even at low doses that aren't detectable as affirmative scent. They are also generally very tenacious. So you smell it strongly next day on clothes because stronger less tenacious molecules have evaporated from the textile fibers sufficiently to uncover the affirmative scent of the santal.
 

polysom

Super Member
Apr 4, 2021
Thanks, this does make sense. This seems then the same for the Patchouli, I also smell it only the next day on my clothes, but not in the perfume.
 

mnitabach

Basenotes Dependent
Nov 13, 2020
Thanks, this does make sense. This seems then the same for the Patchouli, I also smell it only the next day on my clothes, but not in the perfume.

At least in my hands, patchouli is much easier to bring to the foreground of a fragrance than santal (assuming patchouli e.o., not a highly refined fraction or absolute or isolate specifically designed to take a back seat).
 
D

Deleted member 26328009

Guest
If I wear this perfume on my skin and something rubs on my clothes, then I can smell the sandalwood massively the next day on my clothes. But never directly in the perfume. Why is that?
As far as my observations with sandalwood molecules (Sandalore, Ebanol, Javanol) goes, I would say in addition to Mike's comment (#8) that these molecules are more diffusive and causing nose-fatigue than you might expect. In this regard, they are totally different to genuine Santalum album eo: you'll barely notice a scent strip with a drop of sandalwood essential oil in a room (unless it's very close to your nose), but it would surprise me if you aren't able to smell Ebanol (or Javanol for sure) in the entire room if it's put in a 5-10% dilution on a strip. Unfortunately, your nose quickly gets tired (fatigue) - speaking of seconds. After that, you'll probably smell - nothing. In this regard, I'd compare sandalwood molecules with other transparent and highly diffusive molecules like ionones or IES. This may explain why some people tend to underestimate the actual power and strength of these molecules. - Speaking only out of my own observations and conclusions; other may get totally different perceptions/experiences.
 
Jan 21, 2022
Sometimes it is helpful to build a sandalwood accord separately first to ensure that the material ratios are in harmony. Then add back in the other desired notes... As a side note, I do find sanjinol to be the more diffusive and less waxy isomer of bacdanol.
 

Abby2000

Basenotes Member
Oct 11, 2021
One of my simple sandalwood accord;
Benzyl Acetate
Gereniol Acetate
Ebanol
Poly santol
Sandalore
Cedryl Acetate
Brahmanol (Rounding)
 

polysom

Super Member
Apr 4, 2021
Thanks for your accord, Abby2000. I will give this a try.

Sometimes it is helpful to build a sandalwood accord separately first to ensure that the material ratios are in harmony. Then add back in the other desired notes... As a side note, I do find sanjinol to be the more diffusive and less waxy isomer of bacdanol.
Yes, you are right, I also tested the sandalwood materials alone as an accord, until I was happy. And you are also correct with sanjinol. I would love to use sanjinol instead of bacdanol, but I'm unable to find it here in Europe.
 

Abby2000

Basenotes Member
Oct 11, 2021
Thanks for your accord, Abby2000. I will give this a try.


Yes, you are right, I also tested the sandalwood materials alone as an accord, until I was happy. And you are also correct with sanjinol. I would love to use sanjinol instead of bacdanol, but I'm unable to find it here in Europe.
Yes ofcourse you can try it , this is what I traced from the Mysore sandalwood ( 5 year old ) it has good creamy and sprakle notes.
 

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