Who is/was André Fromentin (Grey Flannel)?

[Soultrainee]

Does anyone know anything about "little-known perfumer" André Fromentin, the supposed creator of Grey Flannel? I have not found a shred of information anywhere (other than the Grey Flannel reference) and I'm curious. Thanks.

 

[PStoller]

Does anyone know anything about "little-known perfumer" André Fromentin, the supposed creator of Grey Flannel?

People have asked that here many times. So far as anyone has posted anywhere so far, all we know is that he worked at Roure, which was later absorbed into Givaudan. Chances are he was a staff perfumer who made other things that he didn’t sign.

 

[PStoller]

A tiny bit of additional info: Fromentin worked as a perfumer at Roure-Dupont at least as far back as 1949, which I only know because his name is mentioned in passing in 1951 documentation of a legal dispute between Roure-Dupont and the National Labor Relations Board. At the time, the only perfumers (or “chemists”) were Fromentin and company president Gabriel Varvat (the latter having served as chemist since the 1930s).

This supports my theory that Fromentin composed many unsigned fragrances.

 

[hednic]

I had never heard of him before. Interesting info that was dug up. Thanks for that.

 

[ellebe]

Does anyone know anything about "little-known perfumer" André Fromentin, the supposed creator of Grey Flannel? I have not found a shred of information anywhere (other than the Grey Flannel reference) and I'm curious. Thanks.

Hello, I just scored a full 2 oz. bottle of Grey Flannel from the 80's (distributor Jacqueline Corcoran, Inc.) with box for $12.99. I knew to stay up late to jump on it thanks to a blogger named Pyrgos, who published a very informative piece on Grey Flannel to be found here:

The Corporate Distribution History of Geoffrey Beene's Grey Flannel: From Epocha to EA Fragrances, 1977 - Present

There's a lot of material to cover here, so I'm not going to spend time on a prologue, except to say that much of what is assumed about t...

frompyrgos.blogspot.com

That's how I knew it was pretty vintage & possibly rare. Am trying to find an email address to thank him/her/them on the blogsite, but no luck. So Pyrgos, if you happen to see this, many thanks & very nice site! I've loved Grey Flannel since first smelling it on a man in the late 70's. Hopefully the tons of historical info in the article may provide you with more info on the nose you seek.

 

[woodnotes55]

Hello, I just scored a full 2 oz. bottle of Grey Flannel from the 80's (distributor Jacqueline Corcoran, Inc.) with box for $12.99. ......

Congratulations!!! That's a great score... and a great fragrance!

 

[ellebe]

Congratulations!!! That's a great score... and a great fragrance!

Thank you! It came in the mail today and it's a splash, so I dribbled a little on and man! it is intense! The drydown is so wonderful, exactly what I remember from that guy's neck all those centuries ago... 😜 Gonna decant some into a glass sprayer because I think it'll be easier to control & better when aerated. Anyway, thank you for your kindness, woodnotes...

 

[WarmJewel]

Hello, I just scored a full 2 oz. bottle of Grey Flannel from the 80's (distributor Jacqueline Corcoran, Inc.) with box for $12.99.

Well done on this acquisition! I'm envious.

I've been searching for a Jacqueline Cochran version of Grey Flannel for so long without success. I'll keep searching because I know one will turn up at some point!

 

[woodnotes55]

Well done on this acquisition! I'm envious.

I've been searching for a Jacqueline Cochran version of Grey Flannel for so long without success. I'll keep searching because I know one will turn up at some point!

I suspect there is more out there than we think.....this was never a very expensive scent and seems to have sold well. But when it comes to web sales a significant percent won't show the bottom of the bottle to tell. The few that do often then have a crazy high price as they know it's in more demand, but perhaps not as much as they think. Then all the bottles in flea markets, estate sales, garage sales, and so on, that there is no easy way for us to check other than being there.... I have stumbled across it a few times, good luck in finding one someplace!!!!

 

[WarmJewel]

But when it comes to web sales a significant percent won't show the bottom of the bottle to tell.

Fortunately there are other ways to tell, but it's not an exact science as dating relies heavily on clues.

The Epocha era (1977 - 1980) bottles were only labelled as 'Cologne', never Eau de Toilette and the labels only bore the words 'New York', never 'New York - Paris'. As far as I know, the 'Cologne' was replaced by 'Eau de Toilette' during the Sanofi era (1988 - 1995) which suggests that Cochran era bottles (1981 - 1987) also only had 'Cologne'. This doesn't help with After Shaves of course!

It is speculated that the 'New York' only went to 'New York - Paris' during the French Fragrance era (1996 - 2000) which suggests that all bottles with 'New York' only on them are pre 1996, but it might have been earlier.

Here's my bottle with only 'New York' on it, unfortunately it has nothing on the bottom and was produced by Shulton! So yes, seeing the bottom of the bottle and the distributor name should tell you what era it comes from, but there are other clues as well.

 

[woodnotes55]

Fortunately there are other ways to tell, but it's not an exact science as dating relies heavily on clues.

The Epocha era (1977 - 1980) bottles were only labelled as 'Cologne', never Eau de Toilette and the labels only bore the words 'New York', never 'New York - Paris'. As far as I know, the 'Cologne' was replaced by 'Eau de Toilette' during the Sanofi era (1988 - 1995) which suggests that Cochran era bottles (1981 - 1987) also only had 'Cologne'. This doesn't help with After Shaves of course!

It is speculated that the 'New York' only went to 'New York - Paris' during the French Fragrance era (1996 - 2000) which suggests that all bottles with 'New York' only on them are pre 1996, but it might have been earlier.

Here's my bottle with only 'New York' on it, unfortunately it has nothing on the bottom and was produced by Shulton! So yes, seeing the bottom of the bottle and the distributor name should tell you what era it comes from, but there are other clues as well.

View attachment 320231 View attachment 320232

Thanks for the information!!! More clues is better!!! See often from your posts that you are quite well informed on many of these vintage-dating tips.....

 

[thrilledchilled]

the perfumer for Bowling Green is similarly obscure. I'm wearing a Sanofi version today and I love it. I wonder who the nose was? Fromentin? Winnegrad?

 

[PStoller]

As far as I know, the 'Cologne' was replaced by 'Eau de Toilette' during the Sanofi era (1988 - 1995) which suggests that Cochran era bottles (1981 - 1987) also only had 'Cologne'. This doesn't help with After Shaves of course!

It is speculated that the 'New York' only went to 'New York - Paris' during the French Fragrance era (1996 - 2000) which suggests that all bottles with 'New York' only on them are pre 1996, but it might have been earlier.

From Jeffrey Dame:

“I was Director of Marketing for Men's Fragrances for Sanofi Beauty Products from 1986–1989, both before and after the company bought Cochran and was responsible for the Grey Flannel brand. … Back in the 1970s and 1980s, all the American scents were marketed as ‘Colognes.’ Obsession, Polo, Lagerfeld, and all of them went through a process changing to EDT so they could be sold globally to the new European parent companies. I added the New York - Paris to the label to try and encourage our French owner to take an interest.”

 

[WarmJewel]

From Jeffrey Dame:

“I was Director of Marketing for Men's Fragrances for Sanofi Beauty Products from 1986–1989, both before and after the company bought Cochran and was responsible for the Grey Flannel brand. … Back in the 1970s and 1980s, all the American scents were marketed as ‘Colognes.’ Obsession, Polo, Lagerfeld, and all of them went through a process changing to EDT so they cold be sold globally to the new European parent companies. I added the New York - Paris to the label to try and encourage our French owner to take an interest.”

So both those changes happened during 1986-1989. Really useful information, thank you! So that dates my bottle of aftershave to pre-1986.

 

[PStoller]

So both those changes happened during 1986-1989. Really useful information, thank you! So that dates my bottle of aftershave to pre-1986.

I should mention that Jeffrey Dame graciously shared that info in a comment on the FromPyrgos blog. When I went to copy it today, it appears some change to the blog removed the comments, but I was able to recover the quote via the Wayback Machine.

 

[nosey74]

I should mention that Jeffrey Dame graciously shared that info in a comment on the FromPyrgos blog. When I went to copy it today, it appears some change to the blog removed the comments, but I was able to recover the quote via the Wayback Machine.

Yes I noticed that too but didn’t think of using the wayback machine - what a handy resource that is! I

 

[coriemulvey]

Well done on this acquisition! I'm envious.

I've been searching for a Jacqueline Cochran version of Grey Flannel for so long without success. I'll keep searching because I know one will turn up at some point!

I just found three mini bottles for sale on eBay. It was $16.99. It was also the very first time I looked. These mini bottles were still in little boxes. The trick with the Cochran versions is that it has to say ‘cologne’ on the front. Not toilette or the French word for vaporizer. I honestly cannot believe my luck. I detect sandalwood in this version.. it is very similar to Santal 33, but better.. with more green and violet.

 

[WarmJewel]

The trick with the Cochran versions is that it has to say ‘cologne’ on the front. Not toilette or the French word for vaporizer.

Very nice acquisition, well done!

Yes, I'm aware of the cologne and not eau de toilette or vaporisateur as these came later (likely in the Sanofi period). I've been wearing Grey Flannel since the early 80's and those bottles were Cologne. it's tricky because Cochran (1981-1987) was the US distributor for Grey Flannel but in the UK it was someone different. I think Shulton but I'm not sure. Thus, not many Cochran bottles here!