which lily of the valley materials do you find necessary to own?

[IthinkIcancancan]

Hello,

so I've been doing some reading on lily of the valley materials. If I am not mistaken, lilial and lyral are both quite sensitizing ingredients, and lyral altogether has been banned by IFRA (although I think it is the case that you can still buy these materials that are banned).


So far, on my list of lily of the valley materials to get I have:
- hydroxycitronellal (a must?)
- starfleur 40
- cyclamen aldehyde
- hivernal


I'll be honest, I am not the biggest fan of lily of the valley. Not as a note, and its effects can be irritating to me: soapy cold virginal greenness. But it seems like you must have a few LOV materials in your arsenal.

What would you recommend I get? Are lyral and lilial necessary? Is hydroxycitronellal all one needs for that LOV aspect that seems integral to nearly all perfumes?

Thank you in advance.

 

[Mando]

Just like sandalwood materials, one can fall down the LOTV rabbit hole easily.

For me, I’m head over heels over Jamie Frater’s reconstructed vintage LOTV bases up for sale.

But building blocks like Hydroxycitronellal and Lyral are great ones to start with.

 

[jfrater]

I'm with Mando - my bases are the best

BUT - if I could only own one lily chemical ever - it would be hydroxycitronellal (preferably in the form of Cyclosia by Firmenich).

 

[Mando]

Yes! Cyclosia is great! PSH carries it.

 

[mnitabach]

Hello,

so I've been doing some reading on lily of the valley materials. If I am not mistaken, lilial and lyral are both quite sensitizing ingredients, and lyral altogether has been banned by IFRA (although I think it is the case that you can still buy these materials that are banned).


So far, on my list of lily of the valley materials to get I have:
- hydroxycitronellal (a must?)
- starfleur 40
- cyclamen aldehyde
- hivernal

Yes, get hydroxycitronellal (cyclosia or the Vigon material, both sold by PSH in hobbyist quantities). The last three you list are very niche specialties & would only be useful after you have & use other, more versatile, muguet materials. The ones I would buy first include florol, mayol/lilytol, and lilyflore. IMO & IME, lyral is also extremely difficult to replace for certain key purposes. With those total five, there is very little you can't do.

 

[David Ruskin]

A long time ago I worked on the head space analysis of Lily of the Valley with the aim of making a base. The major components were, as I recall, linalol, citronellol, geraniol, and farnesol. Hydroxycitronellal is not naturally occuring so it wasn't found in the analysis (obvs.!). Indol and 2-methoxy-3-iso butyl pyrazine were also detected.

The suggestion to get hydroxycitronellal is, of course, a good one. Diorissimo is based around it, and there isn't a better Lily of the Valley (the original version). I would also include Floral Super , a very diffusive, lovely material.

 

[Citroasis]

I would also include Floral Super , a very diffusive, lovely material.

Holy smokes, i forgot about Floral Super. I have it...and its so wickedly strong and diffusive! I tried it once in a blend at 1-2 ppt, and it was VERY noticeable in effect. I need to revisit this one again soon.

I have almost every muget material/bases one can obtain through retail stores, and the ones i find most useful and reach for most often are:

Hydroxycitronellol
Florol
Lilial
Lilyflore
Florhydral

Not saying all the other ones aren't useful....but i find there is so much crossover and similarities with all the available muget materials out there, that the ones above just seem to find the most use in general occasions.

 

[jfrater]

A long time ago I worked on the head space analysis of Lily of the Valley with the aim of making a base. The major components were, as I recall, linalol, citronellol, geraniol, and farnesol. Hydroxycitronellal is not naturally occuring so it wasn't found in the analysis (obvs.!). Indol and 2-methoxy-3-iso butyl pyrazine were also detected.

The suggestion to get hydroxycitronellal is, of course, a good one. Diorissimo is based around it, and there isn't a better Lily of the Valley (the original version). I would also include Floral Super , a very diffusive, lovely material.

You're spot on with the headscape of Lily. I make a modern muguet which is based largely on those very materials though it does use a small amount of hydroxycitronellal for that "it's a perfume" quality. And speaking of Diorissimo - I have a vintage bottle that is practically black from the indole! I still wear it (though not with white clothes!)

 

[ChristopheJ]

Hello
Here à picture of thé book of danute pajaujis anonis.
I tryed the number 1 which is ok but need to wait about 3 weeks!

 

[Deleted member 26348570]

Too bad IFRA likes to encourage using a lesser amounts of some of these building block LOTV materials. As a layperson, I follow their guidelines because it’s the best resource publicly available for safe fragrance use.

 

[enfantarribla]

Yes, get hydroxycitronellal (cyclosia or the Vigon material, both sold by PSH in hobbyist quantities). The last three you list are very niche specialties & would only be useful after you have & use other, more versatile, muguet materials. The ones I would buy first include florol, mayol/lilytol, and lilyflore. IMO & IME, lyral is also extremely difficult to replace for certain key purposes. With those total five, there is very little you can't do.

I have recently purchased Lilyreal, the replacement for Lyral. I’ll preface that I’m fairly new, but I happen to prefer the replacement! It’s much closer to Muguet than Lyral, IMHO, humblest, yet I was delighted. I’m not experienced enough to tell how it might behave w the rest, but wasn’t expecting to like it’s scent as much as I do.
I’d been advised to stay with Lilial for as long as possible, but Lilyreal is a worthwhile contender for Lyral, which I purchased out of curiosity and glad I had.
I’m about to grab in a hurry Jaime Fratters bases, and have no doubt they’ll be making the many(most and all I could find), unnecessary even. I still like having all could get my hands on though.
Muguissimo, is very “Issimo” indeed, as many posts here recommended. It’s possibly the closest too, and is available at PSH! (Thank you so, Christine!)
All this said, I can’t wait to get Jaime’s many bases! Very excited about his site and myriad varieties!

 

[enfantarribla]

I forgot to mention I’d also recently found the actual Vallaria Majalis Abs, which contrary to what’s been claimed is indeed the real deal. Still only just beginning to see how it plays out, but thought it worth mentioning.

 

[ourmess]

Lilyreal

I've never heard of this. A quick google search and it looks like it's Perfumer's World's in-house blend? The fact that they list it as a substitute for either lyral or lilial makes me a bit skeptical.

 

[enfantarribla]

I don’t know that it’s an in house blend, but I’m happy with it! As am with everything I got there. Whatever’s been said about issues in previous years, it was before I started buying anything anywhere, but much to the contrary of the bad comments I d read, I happen to love PW. I got ACs there, and same ones elsewhere, and found absolutely no difference.
What’s more, I became friends with the founder/owner, who’s been exceptionally kind, helpful and responsive. I found him to be a genuine, honest, and deeply devoted to his work. Considering the tiniest amounts I’d been getting, I was particularly impressed with how thoughtful and helpful Steve’s been. As to his generosity, it’s been astounding and profoundly moving.
Lastly, as to his much maligned blends/ bases, the haters are outrageously wrong and ignorant. He also happens to have a Muguet blend I was blown away with. It strongly reminds of Diorissimo and that much I should know because it’s my all time beloved perfume.
I forgot to add this, and am not interested in the drama. Anyone spreading nonesense should bother and get one of his florals so they at least know what they’re on about. Me, I’m absolutely in love with the Tuberose, Narcissus and “white” Lily. I use them as straight perfume and can’t be w/out them now. There are other florals and gourmands etc which will knock ones boots off. Highly concentrated and radiant.
I hope I hadn’t strayed too much off the topic, but having seen the unjust treatment, I must add that it offends me personally, so ha do to add my own experience. Again, not interested in the sounding crap. Thanks for reading.

 

[pkiler]

Anyone spreading nonesense

The nonsense spreading has straight up come from PW.

 

[ScentAle]

I don’t know that it’s an in house blend, but I’m happy with it! As am with everything I got there. Whatever’s been said about issues in previous years, it was before I started buying anything anywhere, but much to the contrary of the bad comments I d read, I happen to love PW. I got ACs there, and same ones elsewhere, and found absolutely no difference.
What’s more, I became friends with the founder/owner, who’s been exceptionally kind, helpful and responsive. I found him to be a genuine, honest, and deeply devoted to his work. Considering the tiniest amounts I’d been getting, I was particularly impressed with how thoughtful and helpful Steve’s been. As to his generosity, it’s been astounding and profoundly moving.
Lastly, as to his much maligned blends/ bases, the haters are outrageously wrong and ignorant. He also happens to have a Muguet blend I was blown away with. It strongly reminds of Diorissimo and that much I should know because it’s my all time beloved perfume.
I forgot to add this, and am not interested in the drama. Anyone spreading nonesense should bother and get one of his florals so they at least know what they’re on about. Me, I’m absolutely in love with the Tuberose, Narcissus and “white” Lily. I use them as straight perfume and can’t be w/out them now. There are other florals and gourmands etc which will knock ones boots off. Highly concentrated and radiant.
I hope I hadn’t strayed too much off the topic, but having seen the unjust treatment, I must add that it offends me personally, so ha do to add my own experience. Again, not interested in the sounding crap. Thanks for reading.

Hello. Did you tried naturals from pw? I can say that I think they sell some fake naturals, and some other naturals with bad quality/seems diluted. Ac dont seems bad, and for me it's useful because shipping is very low and with 1 g possibility, but that naturals... very disappointed.

 

[mnitabach]

The nonsense spreading has straight up come from PW.

This individual has only four total posts at Basenotes & three of them are effusive praise of Perfumer's World... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[enfantarribla]

This individual has only four total posts at Basenotes & three of them are effusive praise of Perfumer's World... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yes, I’m a begginner and an increasingly avid follower of the posts in this indispensable forum. And you’re also correct about my praise of PW.
The reason is very simple: I’ve read unjust, unreasonable and inexplicably malicious comments on here, and it upsets me.
As mentioned, I’ve no idea about past issues. I know what I get and came to love from PW. Admittedly, I speak of PW when spot a potentially or a downright negative (miss)judgement that seems to had become the main consensus.
Admittedly, I’m a beginner as I keep repeating. But I know a good thing when smell it, and an outstanding human being when meet one, rarely.
Steve had astounded me time and time again with his generosity, honesty and wisdom. I’ll never know where he found the time or inclination to be so kind to me, who orders by the grams and inundates w never ending questions.
I feel compelled to describe my own impressions and experience, contrary to some who never tried the products they seem to loath so ferociously.
It gets my goat, ya know? There’s a ridiculous amount of drama on the topic and I don’t wish adding or participating, but I can’t remain silent either. Otherwise and above all I assure I’m here to learn and appreciate the vast experience and advice.

 

[enfantarribla]

Hello. Did you tried naturals from pw? I can say that I think they sell some fake naturals, and some other naturals with bad quality/seems diluted. Ac dont seems bad, and for me it's useful because shipping is very low and with 1 g possibility, but that naturals... very disappointed.

Which naturals in particular, do you mean, please? How long ago?
As I keep reminding, I wasn’t around a few years ago, so I can’t speak to that time, but I understand this was a good few years back.
I haven’t tried very many, but some yes. Mostly ACs and bases. The one time something like a 3 gram item arrived degraded, I was sent 10 gr fresh instead by Express mail.
ETA: as far as I can recall I got the Champaca, Cananga, Ylang Extra, and Tobacco abs(which I liked better than PA, which I also shop with a lot), and Hay Abs.

 

[Mando]

Boy, did this post get out of hand for the OP.

I thought this was about the best LOTV building blocks to start with/learn from?

 

[IthinkIcancancan]

Just like sandalwood materials, one can fall down the LOTV rabbit hole easily.

For me, I’m head over heels over Jamie Frater’s reconstructed vintage LOTV bases up for sale.

But building blocks like Hydroxycitronellal and Lyral are great ones to start with.

yes! It sure is s rabbit hole. I spent 2 days straight raking through all the LOTV materials and still that was long enough. I am definintely planning on looking into his bases. They look so good.

Thank you

 

[IthinkIcancancan]

thank you Yes I am having a great time checking out your site, the bases look exquisite.

I'm with Mando - my bases are the best

BUT - if I could only own one lily chemical ever - it would be hydroxycitronellal (preferably in the form of Cyclosia by Firmenich).

 

[IthinkIcancancan]

Yes! Cyclosia is great! PSH carries it.

thank you

 

[IthinkIcancancan]

Yes, get hydroxycitronellal (cyclosia or the Vigon material, both sold by PSH in hobbyist quantities). The last three you list are very niche specialties & would only be useful after you have & use other, more versatile, muguet materials. The ones I would buy first include florol, mayol/lilytol, and lilyflore. IMO & IME, lyral is also extremely difficult to replace for certain key purposes. With those total five, there is very little you can't do.

thank you for this insight

 

[IthinkIcancancan]

A long time ago I worked on the head space analysis of Lily of the Valley with the aim of making a base. The major components were, as I recall, linalol, citronellol, geraniol, and farnesol. Hydroxycitronellal is not naturally occuring so it wasn't found in the analysis (obvs.!). Indol and 2-methoxy-3-iso butyl pyrazine were also detected.

The suggestion to get hydroxycitronellal is, of course, a good one. Diorissimo is based around it, and there isn't a better Lily of the Valley (the original version). I would also include Floral Super , a very diffusive, lovely material.

thank you for this insight

 

[IthinkIcancancan]

Holy smokes, i forgot about Floral Super. I have it...and its so wickedly strong and diffusive! I tried it once in a blend at 1-2 ppt, and it was VERY noticeable in effect. I need to revisit this one again soon.

I have almost every muget material/bases one can obtain through retail stores, and the ones i find most useful and reach for most often are:

Hydroxycitronellol
Florol
Lilial
Lilyflore
Florhydral

Not saying all the other ones aren't useful....but i find there is so much crossover and similarities with all the available muget materials out there, that the ones above just seem to find the most use in general occasions.

thank you for this information

 

[IthinkIcancancan]

Hello
Here à picture of thé book of danute pajaujis anonis.
I tryed the View attachment 320497 number 1 which is ok but need to wait about 3 weeks!

wow! thank you for these formulas.