typical usage level of oakmoss before IFRA?

[slickadam]

do you know the typical pre-IFRA usage level (% in the compound) of oakmoss in scents, that contain it as one of the biggest "pillars" of the formula? fougeres, chypres, ...

 

[pkiler]

You can figure it from this redacted formula for Mitsuoko.

 

[Pears]

Also see the demonstration formulas below (all but the 5th one down predate the 2008 restriction):

http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/demos/dm1697881.html

 

[slickadam]

thank you!

 

[mattmeleg]

I don`t care about IFRA because I make stuff for me, and sometimes friends.
I bathe oak moss & then I pour bergamot all over my body... and THEN, I go suntanning!

Bwahahaha!!!
IFRA = lawyers = a bunch of scare mongers.

 

[Aldara]

Regarding the IFRA ... it is not mandatory to comply with the regulations is it? Their restrictions are more recomendations?

Peanutbutter and shrimps can easily make some people acute and seriously ill but that why there is ingredient lists.

 

[pkiler]

IFRA compliance is voluntary.

 

[RomanB]

You can figure it from this redacted formula for Mitsuoko.

View attachment 87164

Very enlightening. Is the whole formula a secret?

 

[Nkoflan]

Regarding the IFRA ... it is not mandatory to comply with the regulations is it? Their restrictions are more recomendations?

Peanutbutter and shrimps can easily make some people acute and seriously ill but that why there is ingredient lists.

If you have an allergy to something in a perfume, good luck figuring out what it is. It's easier to figure out if you're allergic to shrimp than it is to figure out if you're sensitive to musk ketone.

If you're not a professional perfumer bringing products to the international market, I don't think IFRA is really a big concern.

You can figure it from this redacted formula for Mitsuoko.

View attachment 87164

Wow. That's a lot of oakmoss.

 

[jfrater]

Original chypre had 8% pure yugoslavian oakmoss. Pretty normal for the time.

 

[Mr.P]

Very enlightening. Is the whole formula a secret?

I will just bump this question because I’m curious as well.

 

[pkiler]

Very enlightening. Is the whole formula a secret?

I am not allowed to share publicly or privately from my endowment of Historical Formulas.
But it's not like Mitsuoko formulas are very hidden... It's been around for 100 years. Appell has one, for instance. Plus there are more to find, if you look.
Plus, I've shared another historical Mitsuoko formula here that I can share. look around to find it...

I don't think you've looked hard enough.
I'm not going to spoon feed everyone, do the work, spend the time. That's how I got where I am.

 

[Thioacetone]

I am not allowed to share publicly or privately from my endowment of Historical Formulas.
But it's not like Mitsuoko formulas are very hidden... It's been around for 100 years. Appell has one, for instance. Plus there are more to find, if you look.
Plus, I've shared another historical Mitsuoko formula here that I can share. look around to find it...

I don't think you've looked hard enough.
I'm not going to spoon feed everyone, do the work, spend the time. That's how I got where I am.

why dont you publish all the formulas you have so that we can learn?
A bit selfish..

 

[pkiler]

why dont you publish all the formulas you have so that we can learn?
A bit selfish..

And right there is why you are on ignore.

 

[Thioacetone]

I don't understand why you are being so secretive about these formulas. What harm can come from sharing so we can learn and develop new formulas to make nice new fragrances???

 

[Thioacetone]

Nobody is asking for you to share your own formulas that you devised, just these historical ones so that we can learn. Instead you give us little snippets and redacted ones...

I don't get it.

This forum is for learning and sharing knowledge.

 

[pkiler]

I don't understand why you are being so secretive about these formulas. What harm can come from sharing so we can learn and develop new formulas to make nice new fragrances???

By Contract with my benefactor. As mentioned above.

 

[Thioacetone]

I don't believe you.

 

[RomanB]

I am not allowed to share publicly or privately from my endowment of Historical Formulas.
But it's not like Mitsuoko formulas are very hidden... It's been around for 100 years. Appell has one, for instance. Plus there are more to find, if you look.
Plus, I've shared another historical Mitsuoko formula here that I can share. look around to find it...

I don't think you've looked hard enough.
I'm not going to spoon feed everyone, do the work, spend the time. That's how I got where I am.

I have found three supposedly Mitsuoko formulas on this forum and all are drastically different, so I think none is original. Essential pieces are missing here and there. For me a driving force is to know how masterpieces are made technically, I will continue to search other sources.

 

[RomanB]

I don't believe you.

Why not if Paul owns the collection under NDA?

I have hundreds of real manufacturing formulas from several factories. In my country they are not under copyright protection since we have a law system where exact perfume formulas are potentially patentable as inventions. However, in other countries all the same formulas are under copyright. I can share only the oldest ones if I know when their authors died.

 

[Thioacetone]

Why not if Paul owns the collection under NDA?

I have hundreds of real manufacturing formulas from several factories. In my country they are not under copyright protection since we have a law system where exact perfume formulas are potentially patentable as inventions. However, in other countries all the same formulas are under copyright. I can share only the oldest ones if I know when their authors died.

if they are not patented or copyrighted in your county why cant u share them

 

[RomanB]

if they are not patented or copyrighted in your county why cant u share them

But this site is not in my country and American copyright laws apply. Knowing how America kidnaps people all other the world to throw them to jail for life, I won't do it.

I've donated several simple and old formulas to the sticky post for beginners at this forum, check them.

 

[Thioacetone]

Yeah that is true. America thinks they rule the whole planet lol.

 

[Thioacetone]

Surely china who don't care about American laws could make accurate fakes of any perfume and make a lot of money

 

[mnitabach]

I don't believe you.

This is probably something you know nothing about, but Paul made a promise to someone & he is keeping that promise. Whether you "believe" him is about as far from relevant to anyone or anything of value here on this site forum as is possible to be. While you sometimes post things here that at least partially make sense, you more frequently are rude, nasty, post lies & misdirection, post intentionally inflammatory bull, and generally behave disruptively. What do you gain from this behavior?

 

[Casper_grassy]

What do you gain from this behavior?

Obviously not formulas.

@Thioacetone Just by the way you respond and make demands I wouldn’t give you shit either, quit crying.
There are fantastic websites with good formulas for sale (and specifically for your needy self some of them even have “free” sections).

 

[RomanB]

Obviously not formulas.

@Thioacetone Just by the way you respond and make demands I wouldn’t give you shit either, quit crying.
There are fantastic websites with good formulas for sale (and specifically for your needy self some of them even have “free” sections).

Do they have a vintage Guerlain Fol Arôme formula? I’m searching for it, but there are no clues.

 

[Quay Limey]

sharing so we can learn and develop new formulas to make nice new fragrances???

If you want to make new formulas then make new formulas. Don’t try to dump your inadequacies at Paul’s feet just because you can’t be bothered to learn for yourself.

This forum is for learning and sharing knowledge.

This forum is filled with great advice on the many aspects of DIY perfumery, so I fail to grasp your reasons for throwing this little tantrum.

I have used this forum for many years; far longer than I’ve been registered. In that time I’ve learnt that you don’t need to ask questions to get the answers you seek; almost everything you need to know has been previously asked. Also, I have never studied a formula belonging to anyone else or used a GC result to create my own stuff. I’ve managed to teach myself from info found on this forum and, probably more importantly, practised continuously for over 7 years.

Best thing you can do is wind your neck in and start reading the years of data available to you.

 

[RomanB]

If you want to make new formulas then make new formulas. Don’t try to dump your inadequacies at Paul’s feet just because you can’t be bothered to learn for yourself.


This forum is filled with great advice on the many aspects of DIY perfumery, so I fail to grasp your reasons for throwing this little tantrum.

I have used this forum for many years; far longer than I’ve been registered. In that time I’ve learnt that you don’t need to ask questions to get the answers you seek; almost everything you need to know has been previously asked. Also, I have never studied a formula belonging to anyone else or used a GC result to create my own stuff. I’ve managed to teach myself from info found on this forum and, probably more importantly, practised continuously for over 7 years.

Best thing you can do is wind your neck in and start reading the years of data available to you.

I cannot agree with you. Studying just from practice and outdated demo formulas from old books is like to learn how to play piano while having only Baroque sheet music for viola da gamba. You can succeed eventually, but such way is not optimal and surely not the preferable one.

If someone can find real formulas, they should keep searching and asking. Maybe something is not secret, maybe someone will share. One good real formula teaches more than two dozens of demos and exercises do.

 

[Quay Limey]

I'm a self-taught musician, too.

 

[Quay Limey]

One good real formula teaches more than two dozens of demos and exercises do.

I can't agree with you on that. One "real" formula teaches you about that formula. Learning how materials perform in blends is invaluable and novel scents can be created if one is not attempting to copy.

 

[RomanB]

I'm a self-taught musician, too.

That’s really great. The most scarce resource people have is time. That’s why schools, libraries and universities exist - to accelerate learning.

 

[Casper_grassy]

Do they have a vintage Guerlain Fol Arôme formula? I’m searching for it, but there are no clues.

I have no clue.

I don’t really use them.

 

[Quay Limey]

The most scarce resource people have is time

Indeed. I'm incredibly lucky in so far as I can spend my entire time dedicated to whatever I wish to persue and have the financial means to do so.

However, everything comes with its own cost...

 

[Casper_grassy]

I’ve come across and recreated at best (captives and obscure materials aside) many formulas and yes you do learn, quite a bit actually. However after composing you see the relativities between THOSE materials for THAT formula.

Combo here might not be a good combo there. I’ve realized a while ago that perfumery almost forces ambivalence in your approach and thought which leads me to say without your individual empirical experiments you won’t learn as much as you think.

 

[jfrater]

That’s really great. The most scarce resource people have is time. That’s why schools, libraries and universities exit - to accelerate learning.

I am sorry to say that your last sentence (particularly the last section) is no longer true in many places.

 

[dreaming_jewels]

Much like perfumery, my line of business was a secretive one before the internet. Even still, to be successful one needs to follow through and actually do the work to take advantage of the knowledge available. And needs to separate the truth from the regurgitated garbage that makes up 90% of the information on the web. (blind leading the blind syndrome)
I've had the experience of hobbyist demanding I reveal details about our process and materials. What they didn't seem to understand, is that I was bound by my word to secrecy when these things were revealed to me, by people who had devoted much time, effort and money to our efforts. For me to compromise that was unthinkable.

 

[ourmess]

What do you gain from this behavior?

They gain attention. I mean, even their username says that they're only here to cause a stink.

 

[mnitabach]

They gain attention. I mean, even their username says that they're only here to cause a stink.

It's embarrassing & pathetic...