typical usage level of oakmoss before IFRA?

slickadam

Basenotes Dependent
Feb 10, 2016
do you know the typical pre-IFRA usage level (% in the compound) of oakmoss in scents, that contain it as one of the biggest "pillars" of the formula? fougeres, chypres, ...
 

Aldara

Super Member
Oct 12, 2014
Regarding the IFRA ... it is not mandatory to comply with the regulations is it? Their restrictions are more recomendations?

Peanutbutter and shrimps can easily make some people acute and seriously ill but that why there is ingredient lists.
 

Nkoflan

New member
Feb 26, 2022
Regarding the IFRA ... it is not mandatory to comply with the regulations is it? Their restrictions are more recomendations?

Peanutbutter and shrimps can easily make some people acute and seriously ill but that why there is ingredient lists.

If you have an allergy to something in a perfume, good luck figuring out what it is. It's easier to figure out if you're allergic to shrimp than it is to figure out if you're sensitive to musk ketone.

If you're not a professional perfumer bringing products to the international market, I don't think IFRA is really a big concern.


You can figure it from this redacted formula for Mitsuoko.

View attachment 87164

Wow. That's a lot of oakmoss.
 

pkiler

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 5, 2007
Very enlightening. Is the whole formula a secret?
I am not allowed to share publicly or privately from my endowment of Historical Formulas.
But it's not like Mitsuoko formulas are very hidden... It's been around for 100 years. Appell has one, for instance. Plus there are more to find, if you look.
Plus, I've shared another historical Mitsuoko formula here that I can share. look around to find it...

I don't think you've looked hard enough.
I'm not going to spoon feed everyone, do the work, spend the time. That's how I got where I am.
 

Thioacetone

Super Member
Sep 7, 2022
I am not allowed to share publicly or privately from my endowment of Historical Formulas.
But it's not like Mitsuoko formulas are very hidden... It's been around for 100 years. Appell has one, for instance. Plus there are more to find, if you look.
Plus, I've shared another historical Mitsuoko formula here that I can share. look around to find it...

I don't think you've looked hard enough.
I'm not going to spoon feed everyone, do the work, spend the time. That's how I got where I am.
why dont you publish all the formulas you have so that we can learn?
A bit selfish..
 

Thioacetone

Super Member
Sep 7, 2022
I don't understand why you are being so secretive about these formulas. What harm can come from sharing so we can learn and develop new formulas to make nice new fragrances???
 

Thioacetone

Super Member
Sep 7, 2022
Nobody is asking for you to share your own formulas that you devised, just these historical ones so that we can learn. Instead you give us little snippets and redacted ones...

I don't get it.

This forum is for learning and sharing knowledge.
 

pkiler

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 5, 2007
I don't understand why you are being so secretive about these formulas. What harm can come from sharing so we can learn and develop new formulas to make nice new fragrances???
By Contract with my benefactor. As mentioned above.
 

RomanB

Super Member
Oct 22, 2022
I am not allowed to share publicly or privately from my endowment of Historical Formulas.
But it's not like Mitsuoko formulas are very hidden... It's been around for 100 years. Appell has one, for instance. Plus there are more to find, if you look.
Plus, I've shared another historical Mitsuoko formula here that I can share. look around to find it...

I don't think you've looked hard enough.
I'm not going to spoon feed everyone, do the work, spend the time. That's how I got where I am.
I have found three supposedly Mitsuoko formulas on this forum and all are drastically different, so I think none is original. Essential pieces are missing here and there. For me a driving force is to know how masterpieces are made technically, I will continue to search other sources.
 

RomanB

Super Member
Oct 22, 2022
I don't believe you.
Why not if Paul owns the collection under NDA?

I have hundreds of real manufacturing formulas from several factories. In my country they are not under copyright protection since we have a law system where exact perfume formulas are potentially patentable as inventions. However, in other countries all the same formulas are under copyright. I can share only the oldest ones if I know when their authors died.
 

Thioacetone

Super Member
Sep 7, 2022
Why not if Paul owns the collection under NDA?

I have hundreds of real manufacturing formulas from several factories. In my country they are not under copyright protection since we have a law system where exact perfume formulas are potentially patentable as inventions. However, in other countries all the same formulas are under copyright. I can share only the oldest ones if I know when their authors died.
if they are not patented or copyrighted in your county why cant u share them
 

RomanB

Super Member
Oct 22, 2022
if they are not patented or copyrighted in your county why cant u share them
But this site is not in my country and American copyright laws apply. Knowing how America kidnaps people all other the world to throw them to jail for life, I won't do it.

I've donated several simple and old formulas to the sticky post for beginners at this forum, check them.
 

mnitabach

Basenotes Dependent
Nov 13, 2020
I don't believe you.
This is probably something you know nothing about, but Paul made a promise to someone & he is keeping that promise. Whether you "believe" him is about as far from relevant to anyone or anything of value here on this site forum as is possible to be. While you sometimes post things here that at least partially make sense, you more frequently are rude, nasty, post lies & misdirection, post intentionally inflammatory bull, and generally behave disruptively. What do you gain from this behavior?
 

RomanB

Super Member
Oct 22, 2022
Obviously not formulas.

@Thioacetone Just by the way you respond and make demands I wouldn’t give you shit either, quit crying.
There are fantastic websites with good formulas for sale (and specifically for your needy self some of them even have “free” sections).
Do they have a vintage Guerlain Fol Arôme formula? I’m searching for it, but there are no clues.
 

Quay Limey

Basenotes Junkie
Nov 1, 2020
sharing so we can learn and develop new formulas to make nice new fragrances???
If you want to make new formulas then make new formulas. Don’t try to dump your inadequacies at Paul’s feet just because you can’t be bothered to learn for yourself.

This forum is for learning and sharing knowledge.
This forum is filled with great advice on the many aspects of DIY perfumery, so I fail to grasp your reasons for throwing this little tantrum.

I have used this forum for many years; far longer than I’ve been registered. In that time I’ve learnt that you don’t need to ask questions to get the answers you seek; almost everything you need to know has been previously asked. Also, I have never studied a formula belonging to anyone else or used a GC result to create my own stuff. I’ve managed to teach myself from info found on this forum and, probably more importantly, practised continuously for over 7 years.

Best thing you can do is wind your neck in and start reading the years of data available to you.
 

RomanB

Super Member
Oct 22, 2022
If you want to make new formulas then make new formulas. Don’t try to dump your inadequacies at Paul’s feet just because you can’t be bothered to learn for yourself.


This forum is filled with great advice on the many aspects of DIY perfumery, so I fail to grasp your reasons for throwing this little tantrum.

I have used this forum for many years; far longer than I’ve been registered. In that time I’ve learnt that you don’t need to ask questions to get the answers you seek; almost everything you need to know has been previously asked. Also, I have never studied a formula belonging to anyone else or used a GC result to create my own stuff. I’ve managed to teach myself from info found on this forum and, probably more importantly, practised continuously for over 7 years.

Best thing you can do is wind your neck in and start reading the years of data available to you.
I cannot agree with you. Studying just from practice and outdated demo formulas from old books is like to learn how to play piano while having only Baroque sheet music for viola da gamba. You can succeed eventually, but such way is not optimal and surely not the preferable one.

If someone can find real formulas, they should keep searching and asking. Maybe something is not secret, maybe someone will share. One good real formula teaches more than two dozens of demos and exercises do.
 

Quay Limey

Basenotes Junkie
Nov 1, 2020
One good real formula teaches more than two dozens of demos and exercises do.
I can't agree with you on that. One "real" formula teaches you about that formula. Learning how materials perform in blends is invaluable and novel scents can be created if one is not attempting to copy.
 

Casper_grassy

Basenotes Dependent
May 5, 2020
I’ve come across and recreated at best (captives and obscure materials aside) many formulas and yes you do learn, quite a bit actually. However after composing you see the relativities between THOSE materials for THAT formula.

Combo here might not be a good combo there. I’ve realized a while ago that perfumery almost forces ambivalence in your approach and thought which leads me to say without your individual empirical experiments you won’t learn as much as you think.
 
Nov 10, 2022
Much like perfumery, my line of business was a secretive one before the internet. Even still, to be successful one needs to follow through and actually do the work to take advantage of the knowledge available. And needs to separate the truth from the regurgitated garbage that makes up 90% of the information on the web. (blind leading the blind syndrome)
I've had the experience of hobbyist demanding I reveal details about our process and materials. What they didn't seem to understand, is that I was bound by my word to secrecy when these things were revealed to me, by people who had devoted much time, effort and money to our efforts. For me to compromise that was unthinkable.
 

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