Tinctures and extracts where to source

[SleepingPhoenixApothecary]

I'm really looking forward to getting some of my own tinctures and extracts on the go. In the meantime I was wondering if there are some reputable suppliers out there that anybody knows about?

There seems to be quite a few people selling extracts and tinctures on Etsy but I'm not sure how strong they're gonna be or how useful for perfumery they will be, many are selling for the medicinal benefits.

Does anybody know of any suppliers out there for tinctures and extracts to be used in perfumery?

 

[SleepingPhoenixApothecary]

Also on a related tincturing note, has anyone tinctured freeze dried fruits at all? I was reading this post and it mentioned tincturing freeze dried fruit, this is super exciting.

Tincture Madness

Peach and Apricot Tincture My obsession has returned. Sometimes, it's pushed aside for other important daily tasks, but it never dissipates. I LOVE making tinctures for perfume! When teaching perfume courses, my students favorite part of the class is when we create a tincture. I've...

www.providenceperfume.com

 

[Darren Alan]

I don't have any suppliers for perfumery tinctures to share...I always make my own which I sometimes do sell to other perfumers if I hsve enough on hand. Part of the fun of using tinctures for me is making them.

I have tinctured freeze dried strawberries & freeze dried black currants before. As you'd expect, the odor impact of the tinctures is not very strong, even with multiple charges. And many fruits (even when freeze dried) contain sugars which can leave the skin sticky in a perfum. They can mostly be removed via a freeze filtering process. The black currant tincture turned out much stronger than the strawberry tincture, but both were nice.

 

[SleepingPhoenixApothecary]

I don't have any suppliers for perfumery tinctures to share...I always make my own which I sometimes do sell to other perfumers if I hsve enough on hand. Part of the fun of using tinctures for me is making them.

I have tinctured freeze dried strawberries & freeze dried black currants before. As you'd expect, the odor impact of the tinctures is not very strong, even with multiple charges. And many fruits (even when freeze dried) contain sugars which can leave the skin sticky in a perfum. They can mostly be removed via a freeze filtering process. The black currant tincture turned out much stronger than the strawberry tincture, but both were nice.

That is awesome thanks for sharing. I have a crazy idea, what if I smoked the material I was gonna tincture? like cold smoked some dried sage and then tinctured it? I've heard of people toasting coconut and tincturing that, I'm definitely gonna try experimenting with that.

 

[Darren Alan]

That may work. It's surprising the amount of nuance good tincturing can bring out of a matetial. Let us know how the smoking works. I've never tinctured a smoked material, but I could see how it might work

 

[SleepingPhoenixApothecary]

I'll let you know if I try that, I was thinking of tincturing palo Santo but burning it first, really wanna know how that will turn out. Also I wanna try tincturing black limes. I love the mad scientist that's waking up in me with this tincturing lol

 

[Darren Alan]

Ooooh! Black limes would be interesting! If you do that please do update us. I'm curious how that will turn out! 👍🏼

 

[Jolieo]

Where do you get black limes?

 

[SleepingPhoenixApothecary]

Where do you get black limes?

I order them from Amazon, Sadaf is the brand I get. I have this recipe for an Oolong Cola mocktail using them that is outta this freaking world, its one of my favorite drinks to make.

 

[Jolieo]

I order them from Amazon, Sadaf is the brand I get. I have this recipe for an Oolong Cola mocktail using them that is outta this freaking world, its one of my favorite drinks to make.

I’d love the recipe- I don’t drink so mocktails are my jam!

 

[SleepingPhoenixApothecary]

I’d love the recipe- I don’t drink so mocktails are my jam!

This is a gift from the gods I love it so much. The recipe comes from this book called "Clean and Dirty drinking" its a wonderful book that has both versions of these really elaborate cocktails, one with alcohol and one without. I'll share the recipe here along with the recipe for the cola syrup itself but I'd also suggest getting the book as well its pretty inspiring, oh and I JUST noticed in the cocktail recipe she uses Afteliers chef essences!

 

[SleepingPhoenixApothecary]

Important! When making the cola syrup make the "dirty" version with 3 cups of cane sugar, don't make the clean one with date syrup and coconut sugar, the dirty version is wayyyy better.

 

[SleepingPhoenixApothecary]

I've had this for awhile and never used it, thinking of making a tincture from it, ground kaffir lime leaves! Am I right in thinking the finer you can get a material the better the tincture will be? ie using a powder as opposed to whole kaffir lime leaves.

 

[pkiler]

I've had this for awhile and never used it, thinking of making a tincture from it, ground kaffir lime leaves! Am I right in thinking the finer you can get a material the better the tincture will be? ie using a powder as opposed to whole kaffir lime leaves.

Finer is better, yes, but freshly ground is best, instead of "I don't know how old this is" ground.
But the real issue with the dried, is that the leaves have oil, the product is Kaffir petitgrain EO from these leaves. I'm not sure how much scent is left from dried ground leaves...? much of the oil is evaporated... The Kaffir Petitgrain is available to purchase, if that is what you seek...

 

[James Peterson]

I offer ambergris, civet and castoreum tinctures, in small amounts, on perfumeexplorations.com.

 

[SleepingPhoenixApothecary]

Finer is better, yes, but freshly ground is best, instead of "I don't know how old this is" ground.
But the real issue with the dried, is that the leaves have oil, the product is Kaffir petitgrain EO from these leaves. I'm not sure how much scent is left from dried ground leaves...? much of the oil is evaporated... The Kaffir Petitgrain is available to purchase, if that is what you seek...

Cool I may get a small amount of that petitgrain, do you know who offers it? Also I think I'm gonna try getting fresh leaves and cutting them as fine as I can get them and tincturing that. The powder I have here still very much smells like lime leaves but its a lot more "grassy" now than when I first bought it about 6 months ago. I may still do a tiny tincture with this powder to see if anything interesting happens.

 

[SleepingPhoenixApothecary]

I offer ambergris, civet and castoreum tinctures, in small amounts, on perfumeexplorations.com.

Thanks James I'll keep this in mind.

 

[SleepingPhoenixApothecary]

Also just a quick herb tincturing question. I just got back from Colorado where my folks live and harvested some of the mountain sage that grows out there which I adore, I want to make a tincture with it. Am I right in thinking that I should dry it out completely before starting the tincture with 190 proof alcohol?

 

[Darren Alan]

I would dry it as much as possible. The less water in your tincture the better. You can remove excess water from your tinctures by using a desiccant like sodium sulfate or by partitioning the water off by employing a temperature differential, but the easiest thing to do is just start with dry material to begin with. If you have a food dehydrator you could try that & see if it helps speed the process along a bit

 

[SleepingPhoenixApothecary]

I would dry it as much as possible. The less water in your tincture the better. You can remove excess water from your tinctures by using a desiccant like sodium sulfate or by partitioning the water off by employing a temperature differential, but the easiest thing to do is just start with dry material to begin with. If you have a food dehydrator you could try that & see if it helps speed the process along a bit

Nice thanks for the tips I'll try drying it out as much as I can. Dehydrator is a cool idea.

 

[pkiler]

Cool I may get a small amount of that petitgrain, do you know who offers it?

Are you aware that you can search TGSC for suppliers?
This is from page #1 of suppliers.

Kaffir Lime Petitgrain (Combava) Essential Oil | Stillpoint Aromatics
Stillpoint Aromatics › kaffir-lime-petitgrain-combava-citrus-hystri...


Pure organic, wild harvested and unsprayed essential oils. Aromatherapy GC/MS reports available. Ethically farmed and ethically priced.

Combava Petitgrain Kaffir Lime
Appalachian Valley Natural Products › SHOP › Essential Oils - Absolutes - Extracts › Essential Oils


Combava Petitgrain Kaffir Lime Essential Oil is steam distilled. Excellent for diffusing.




__Products - EO127 - Combava Petitgrain a/k/a Kaffir Lime (Citrus ...
www.arlysnaturals.com › ViewProductDetails › productVia › ProductID


Holistic online store providing specialty aromatherapy products, recipes and pure, organic essential oils, hydrosols, skin care with plant, ...

- EO127 - Combava Petitgrain a/k/a Kaffir Lime (Citrus hystrix)
www.arlysnaturals.com › ViewProductDetails › productVia › ProductID


Holistic online store providing specialty aromatherapy products, recipes and pure, organic essential oils, hydrosols, skin care with plant, ...

SAFETY DATA SHEET PETITGRAIN LIME KAFFIR OIL (according to ...
www.lluche.com › produits › Pages › OpenDocuments › productName=PE...


Petitgrain Combarva Organic Essential Oil - Oshadhi Essential Oils
Oshadhi Essential Oils › Shop


Petitgrain Combarva Organic Citrus hystrix (2455 – 5ml) (also known as Kaffir Lime). More general information about Petitgrain

Petitgrain Essential Oil Set, 5mL-EOPETSET5
www.lgbotanicals.com › Aromatherapy Products › Essential Oil Sets

 

[SleepingPhoenixApothecary]

Are you aware that you can search TGSC for suppliers?
This is from page #1 of suppliers.

Kaffir Lime Petitgrain (Combava) Essential Oil | Stillpoint Aromatics
Stillpoint Aromatics › kaffir-lime-petitgrain-combava-citrus-hystri...


Pure organic, wild harvested and unsprayed essential oils. Aromatherapy GC/MS reports available. Ethically farmed and ethically priced.

Combava Petitgrain Kaffir Lime
Appalachian Valley Natural Products › SHOP › Essential Oils - Absolutes - Extracts › Essential Oils


Combava Petitgrain Kaffir Lime Essential Oil is steam distilled. Excellent for diffusing.




__Products - EO127 - Combava Petitgrain a/k/a Kaffir Lime (Citrus ...
www.arlysnaturals.com › ViewProductDetails › productVia › ProductID


Holistic online store providing specialty aromatherapy products, recipes and pure, organic essential oils, hydrosols, skin care with plant, ...

- EO127 - Combava Petitgrain a/k/a Kaffir Lime (Citrus hystrix)
www.arlysnaturals.com › ViewProductDetails › productVia › ProductID


Holistic online store providing specialty aromatherapy products, recipes and pure, organic essential oils, hydrosols, skin care with plant, ...

SAFETY DATA SHEET PETITGRAIN LIME KAFFIR OIL (according to ...
www.lluche.com › produits › Pages › OpenDocuments › productName=PE...


Petitgrain Combarva Organic Essential Oil - Oshadhi Essential Oils
Oshadhi Essential Oils › Shop


Petitgrain Combarva Organic Citrus hystrix (2455 – 5ml) (also known as Kaffir Lime). More general information about Petitgrain

Petitgrain Essential Oil Set, 5mL-EOPETSET5
www.lgbotanicals.com › Aromatherapy Products › Essential Oil Sets

I wasn’t aware of that search function, thank you!

 

[pkiler]

I wasn’t aware of that search function, thank you!

You Know What, Sleeping Phoenix, I forgot... My Fault...
Where you search for suppliers is on www.perfumersearch.com
my apologies to you...
the default search is TGSC,
but the bars in the upper left are a menu of searches available, the second down is the suppliers search.
I just use perfumersearch as my default search of TGSC that I forgot that they are not the same,...

but that is how I found those suppliers...

Perfumersearch is a great tool!

PK

 

[SleepingPhoenixApothecary]

You Know What, Sleeping Phoenix, I forgot... My Fault...
Where you search for suppliers is on www.perfumersearch.com
my apologies to you...
the default search is TGSC,
but the bars in the upper left are a menu of searches available, the second down is the suppliers search.
I just use perfumersearch as my default search of TGSC that I forgot that they are not the same,...

but that is how I found those suppliers...

Perfumersearch is a great tool!

PK

Wow this is a cool site thanks for clueing me in

 

[SleepingPhoenixApothecary]

I just got some really aromatic Sichuan peppercorns I wanna tincture too. Should I pulse them a bit in the food processor first or just put them straight in?

 

[pkiler]

I just got some really aromatic Sichuan peppercorns I wanna tincture too. Should I pulse them a bit in the food processor first or just put them straight in?

I haven't yet seen Sichuan's, but I would crush or break them open, in some manner, and immediately place in alcohol, and wash out the mechanism for the oil stuck there too.

 

[SleepingPhoenixApothecary]

I haven't yet seen Sichuan's, but I would crush or break them open, in some manner, and immediately place in alcohol, and wash out the mechanism for the oil stuck there too.

Will do!

 

[SleepingPhoenixApothecary]

Has anyone ever made an absolute by letting a tincture evaporate? I've read this is a thing.

 

[ourmess]

The problem with that idea is that you have no idea how much of your source material is evaporating along with it over time.

If you want an easier solution than a rotovap, then you could look into something like a countertop ethanol recovery appliance like an ExtractCraft. I haven't tried it but it seems like a straightforward and easy way to get a kinda-sorta absolute out of a tincture.

 

[SleepingPhoenixApothecary]

The problem with that idea is that you have no idea how much of your source material is evaporating along with it over time.

If you want an easier solution than a rotovap, then you could look into something like a countertop ethanol recovery appliance like an ExtractCraft. I haven't tried it but it seems like a straightforward and easy way to get a kinda-sorta absolute out of a tincture.

Wow im just looking into this gizmo! Seems really cool, worth looking into for sure.

 

[pkiler]

I would not recommend to just simply let the alcohol evaporate. It's only a "thing" because of laziness or ignorance.
Sorry to be mean.

 

[SleepingPhoenixApothecary]

I would not recommend to just simply let the alcohol evaporate. It's only a "thing" because of laziness or ignorance.
Sorry to be mean.

Point taken, would you recommend the extract craft for such a task? Been looking into it and it seems really cool, especially cuz you can re use the ethanol.

 

[pkiler]

Point taken, would you recommend the extract craft for such a task? Been looking into it and it seems really cool, especially cuz you can re use the ethanol.

I am unfamiliar with the extract craft. I have the rotovap, but have not set it up yet.

 

[James Peterson]

I'm really looking forward to getting some of my own tinctures and extracts on the go. In the meantime I was wondering if there are some reputable suppliers out there that anybody knows about?

There seems to be quite a few people selling extracts and tinctures on Etsy but I'm not sure how strong they're gonna be or how useful for perfumery they will be, many are selling for the medicinal benefits.

Does anybody know of any suppliers out there for tinctures and extracts to be used in perfumery?

Dear Sleeping Phoenix: I have a website where I'm selling excess materials from my perfume company, Brooklyn Perfume Company. Included are ambergris, civet and castoreum tinctures; rare ouds; naturals and synthetics; books; a blog; and various other things: perfume
explorations.com.

 

[papadooku]

That is awesome thanks for sharing. I have a crazy idea, what if I smoked the material I was gonna tincture? like cold smoked some dried sage and then tinctured it? I've heard of people toasting coconut and tincturing that, I'm definitely gonna try experimenting with that.

This is all fantastic stuff - any updates now that we're a few months in? I'm guessing you'll have started a lot of weird tinctures 😁

Smoked stuff definitely works well. I've tinctured bits of recently-charred wood from a fireplace and it gave a nicely smoky scent, similar to birch tar but a bit more "campfire-y" which makes sense I suppose.
Some spices like smoked paprika and black cardamom must be fantastic to tincture too, haven't tried them yet though...
Lapsang tea is a good idea too, since they are already pine-smoked tea leaves. Mandy Aftel has a perfume based on lapsang and vanilla which sounds absolutely wonderful, just from the description!

I'll let you know if I try that, I was thinking of tincturing palo Santo but burning it first, really wanna know how that will turn out. Also I wanna try tincturing black limes. I love the mad scientist that's waking up in me with this tincturing lol

Did you know you can make your own black limes super-easily? Pascal Baudar wrote about it in one of his first cookbooks: just leave limes out in the sun for some time. That's it.

Dried fruits aren't explored enough in tincturing IMO. I've started one with medjool dates, and I suspect it's gonna take a couple recharges to be strong enough, but the smell is already heavenly, it already evokes a warm sticky toffee pudding.
Raisins are an easy find and have an interesting note to bring, too.

Has anyone ever made an absolute by letting a tincture evaporate? I've read this is a thing.

Yes, I've tried with oakmoss and vetiver but not all the way to make an absolute (though I trust Wild Veil Perfumes, if she does it then it must be good). I can just confirm that a little helps make the smell a little more concentrated. It might be worth trying with top-note-heavy materials though, to see if these notes go away when you do this! It might not be a bad thing all in all, you might notice some interesting deeper notes a bit more.



Just as an aside, I would definitely recommend tincturing labdanum, if you can get a hold of a plant. I found a couple young plants on my equivalent of Craigslist for 15€ and the tincture is so strong that I don't need to buy any labdanum anymore!
The plant itself is easy to maintain, not much watering since its habitat is dry, and surprisingly resistant to cold temps. When I got it through the mail and replanted it, it lost a few leaves because of the shock, which is normal - but this means I had a handful of still-sticky, dead brown leaves all ready to tincture, and I can confirm that whether you use picked and dried leaves or dead ones, the result is the same. Incredibly diffusive for a tincture.


Please tell us some of the other ones you've tried!

 

[SleepingPhoenixApothecary]

This is all fantastic stuff - any updates now that we're a few months in? I'm guessing you'll have started a lot of weird tinctures 😁

Smoked stuff definitely works well. I've tinctured bits of recently-charred wood from a fireplace and it gave a nicely smoky scent, similar to birch tar but a bit more "campfire-y" which makes sense I suppose.
Some spices like smoked paprika and black cardamom must be fantastic to tincture too, haven't tried them yet though...
Lapsang tea is a good idea too, since they are already pine-smoked tea leaves. Mandy Aftel has a perfume based on lapsang and vanilla which sounds absolutely wonderful, just from the description!


Did you know you can make your own black limes super-easily? Pascal Baudar wrote about it in one of his first cookbooks: just leave limes out in the sun for some time. That's it.

Dried fruits aren't explored enough in tincturing IMO. I've started one with medjool dates, and I suspect it's gonna take a couple recharges to be strong enough, but the smell is already heavenly, it already evokes a warm sticky toffee pudding.
Raisins are an easy find and have an interesting note to bring, too.


Yes, I've tried with oakmoss and vetiver but not all the way to make an absolute (though I trust Wild Veil Perfumes, if she does it then it must be good). I can just confirm that a little helps make the smell a little more concentrated. It might be worth trying with top-note-heavy materials though, to see if these notes go away when you do this! It might not be a bad thing all in all, you might notice some interesting deeper notes a bit more.



Just as an aside, I would definitely recommend tincturing labdanum, if you can get a hold of a plant. I found a couple young plants on my equivalent of Craigslist for 15€ and the tincture is so strong that I don't need to buy any labdanum anymore!
The plant itself is easy to maintain, not much watering since its habitat is dry, and surprisingly resistant to cold temps. When I got it through the mail and replanted it, it lost a few leaves because of the shock, which is normal - but this means I had a handful of still-sticky, dead brown leaves all ready to tincture, and I can confirm that whether you use picked and dried leaves or dead ones, the result is the same. Incredibly diffusive for a tincture.


Please tell us some of the other ones you've tried!

Wow what a detailed report thank you for writing this!

I ended up buying some Sadaf brand black limes, splitting them open and taking out most of the inside parts leaving the rind intact, that's been going a little over a month now and so far its really nice. Definitely a top/middle note, the smell reminds me of an Indian grocery market I used to go to in LA, its also quite citruses, crackly and also dusty in the background, its pretty wonderful and would be a real surprise in a formula.

I did the burnt palo Santo too, bought some palo Santo "chips" then burnt a little bit of them, I'd say 10% in total were actually charred and that's very mild palo Santo but it has that burned palo Santo vibe I was after, comparing with palo Santo EO the tincture is much more creamy and mellow which I really like.

Next I did a toasted coconut one, bought unsweetened desiccated coconut and lightly toasted it on a. sheet pan in the oven then into the alcohol after it cooled. I have to say that one has only been going for 2 weeks now but WOW its beautiful so far, smells like a freshly baked coconut macaroon right out of the oven.

The next one was a Trinidad sweet perfume pepper tincture. I've always loved the smell of scotch bonnet peppers but can't handle the spice so there's a variety of Trinidad peppers that have NO spice but ALL the flavor of a scotch bonnet, I blitzed those up and added to alcohol, charged it twice but I think I should stop here because I'm introducing a lot of water with the charges. Its really bright and floral, almost citrusy that fades down to a bell pepper, galbanum like note, definitely a top note this one.

Thats all I got for now! Oh I do have 3 vanilla tinctures on the go too, Tahiti, Madagascar and Mexico to compare the beans, also the way I prepared them was to slice the pods in half, then scrape out the seeds, then do a rough chop on the husk of the pod and then I pulsed the husks in the food processor till I had a pretty fine chop on it.

 

[Thioacetone]

Just as an aside, I would definitely recommend tincturing labdanum,

Won't you be absorbing all the water in the plant by tincturing? Water is not desirable for perfumes. You are better off making an absolute.

 

[papadooku]

Won't you be absorbing all the water in the plant by tincturing? Water is not desirable for perfumes. You are better off making an absolute.

Sorry I didn't make this clear, but yes, this is a given. As long as you dry your material, you can tincture anything. The Labdanum I used was always dried up and crispy.

You can of course make an absolute instead, I choose not to do it for ecological and ethical reasons.

 

[Thioacetone]

I choose not to do it for ecological and ethical reasons.

What do you mean?

 

[Thioacetone]

The Labdanum I used was 1lways dried up and crispy.

How did you dry it?