Tea accord by Jean Claude Allena

Fazal Khan

Basenotes Member
Feb 19, 2019
Jean Claude Allena shared once that by adding Beta Ionone and Hedione, it gives illusion of Tea. I have tried the combination 4 hedione to 1 beta ionone....also with 50 to 50 parts each but I am do'nt feel of Tea ...Does any tried the combination....mean what % of parts of both material in the accord.... to have note of Tea...also please share either its Green or normal tea...
 

Casper_grassy

Basenotes Dependent
May 5, 2020
Jean Claude Allena shared once that by adding Beta Ionone and Hedione, it gives illusion of Tea. I have tried the combination 4 hedione to 1 beta ionone....also with 50 to 50 parts each but I am do'nt feel of Tea ...Does any tried the combination....mean what % of parts of both material in the accord.... to have note of Tea...also please share either its Green or normal tea...
I’ve never tried this, but it could be an “illusion” to himself.
Also his formula would obviously contain more than that.
If you have benzyl formate it might give it that extra tea impression.
I’m also not experienced with tea notes so I could just be wasting my time here.
 

Najengi

Basenotes Member
May 31, 2021
Have you taken this combination from what he says here in his book: Perfume – The Alchemy of Scent (2011):

Combining ionone with hedione, another synthetic substance, evokes the aroma of tea’. Ellena, Jean-Claude. Perfume (p. 51). Arcade. Kindle Edition.

He also says just before this: ‘In a perfume, I do not create surprise by faithfully reproducing the aroma of tea, of flour, of figs, as they are. To create is to interpret odors by changing them into signs and for these signs to convey meaning’. Ellena, Jean-Claude. Perfume (p. 46). Arcade. Kindle Edition.

So, as Casper_grassy has said in his post, you may need to read his use of the word ‘evoke’ to mean suggest rather than him saying it is a reproduction accord.

In my accords notes I have down a J.C. Ellena tea accord as Bergamot + Beta Ionone – but I’m kicking myself for not referencing where I read this, so sorry I can’t redirect you to the actual reference.

I don’t have beta ionone, but he does just say 'ionone' in this reference I've quoted here, so I used my Methyl Ionone Gamma Pure at a 1:1 ratio with the Hedione, and then with the Bergamot - Bergamot already has that earl grey/bergamot tea note going on anyway, but that earl grey citrus note diffuses quickly and it settles into a black tea note alongside the ionone. Anyway, I compared both combinations to a freshly brewed cup of my Assam tea - both with and without milk – with my Breakfast this morning and they both smelled very similar to the aroma of the cup of tea with milk. I don’t know what type of tea Monsieur Ellena drinks, but I would guess from my Breakfast experiment above that he is suggesting black tea here.
 

Alex F.

Super Member
Nov 29, 2019
In The Diary of a Nose, Ellena writes about changing the prevailing associations of odorants. Beta-ionone was associated with the odour of violets, until he used it in connection with tea: "In order to create the accord with tea in Eau parfumée au thé vert for Bulgari, I used this synthetic compound in a different way and combined ionone beta with hedione. The perfume became a market archetype, and the smell changed: Ionone no longer smells just of violets, but also of tea." (Cabris, Friday 20 August 2010. Ellena, J.C., The Diary of a Nose, mobile ed.)
So, like Casper_grassy said, the tea accord probably contained more than beta-ionone and hedione.
I'm not sure the two ingredients by themselves will create the idea of tea, if your brain isn't already used to the association. Just as methyl salicylate in the oil of wintergreen only smells minty to those who are used to it as a flavouring agent in mint candy.
 
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Casper_grassy

Basenotes Dependent
May 5, 2020
. Just as methyl salicylate in the oil of wintergreen only smells minty to those who are used to it as a flavouring agent in mint candy.
Or IcyHot which can easily show how diffusive methyl salicylate is lol

I’ve never smelled the fragrance he speaks of where he made this, however Idk if it’s just my personal struggles, but whenever I do anything violet oriented with the obvious use of ionones, or even in violet/iris based commercial/niche fragrances, I can’t seem to steer my brain away from thinking “oh, it’s just ionones” in this or that. This could be the unfortunate consequence of making fragrances and understanding what I’m smelling on a more technical level (I guess?) than just “fragheads” who are used to marketing where ionones are used and the note list contains violet or iris. Sorry for rambling . . . Yet again, can’t help it.

What i’m saying is, regardless of the accord, I think upon sniffing I’ll just smell ionone and hedione and tea will probably be the last thing on my mind.
 

Alex F.

Super Member
Nov 29, 2019
I’ve never smelled the fragrance he speaks of where he made this, however Idk if it’s just my personal struggles, but whenever I do anything violet oriented with the obvious use of ionones, or even in violet/iris based commercial/niche fragrances, I can’t seem to steer my brain away from thinking “oh, it’s just ionones” in this or that. This could be the unfortunate consequence of making fragrances and understanding what I’m smelling on a more technical level (I guess?) than just “fragheads” who are used to marketing where ionones are used and the note list contains violet or iris. Sorry for rambling . . . Yet again, can’t help it
Being able to make out a certain part can destroy the illusion of the intended whole. Happens to me all the time.
 

L'Aventurier

Basenotes Dependent
May 8, 2008
I'll echo what the others said about the tea accord not actually smelling like green tea, but feeling like tea. When I smell his Bulgari creation, I think of dry tea leaves, or even crunchy autumn leaves, but I don't get "fresh tea", even though the fragrance has a very fresh and moist feeling from the hedione / jasmine.

I believe another key component of Ellena's green tea accord, is his signature spice accord, with more emphasis on coriander seed and ceylon cinnamon, here specifically than his other creations. The coriander especially makes the tea feel like smelling dried green tea leaves, before steeping them in hot water.
 

RSG

Basenotes Junkie
Nov 26, 2016
JCE likes to perfume like La Croix likes to flavor water. It's an impression. We've talked in Facebook group before about how his stuffy is really inspiring but hard to be useful to someone new. I know for a fact that JCE has nerolidol in his palette and that is exactly what you need for teas, all teas, and ketoisophorone for black teas or fermented ones. Teas do contain ionones generally but they are a small part of the total profile. I have made a bunch of tea bases including an earl grey type and one thing I try to do is keep them entirely focused on the scent profile so I don't add any fillers smoother or perfumizers. So no musks, hedione, helional, etc.
 

Najengi

Basenotes Member
May 31, 2021
Illusions are his choice / business. reality is not.
You must choose, padawan.
Nicely put...made me smile.

It is a choice and I love that Ellena is upfront about the personal choice / direction he wanted to go in as a perfumer and artist. I find his tea notes really are an invitation into something else.
 

julian35

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Feb 28, 2009
Jean Claude Allena shared once that by adding Beta Ionone and Hedione, it gives illusion of Tea. I have tried the combination 4 hedione to 1 beta ionone....also with 50 to 50 parts each but I am do'nt feel of Tea ...Does any tried the combination....mean what % of parts of both material in the accord.... to have note of Tea...also please share either its Green or normal tea...
You may find this 2015 conversation of use. BLACK TEA ACCORD

I have found Black Tea= Hedione + BETA Ionone, Green Tea is more Hedione+Ionone
In my opinion Cis 3 Hex Acetate and Linalool are important.
 
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Fazal Khan

Basenotes Member
Feb 19, 2019
Or IcyHot which can easily show how diffusive methyl salicylate is lol

I’ve never smelled the fragrance he speaks of where he made this, however Idk if it’s just my personal struggles, but whenever I do anything violet oriented with the obvious use of ionones, or even in violet/iris based commercial/niche fragrances, I can’t seem to steer my brain away from thinking “oh, it’s just ionones” in this or that. This could be the unfortunate consequence of making fragrances and understanding what I’m smelling on a more technical level (I guess?) than just “fragheads” who are used to marketing where ionones are used and the note list contains violet or iris. Sorry for rambling . . . Yet again, can’t help it.

What i’m saying is, regardless of the accord, I think upon sniffing I’ll just smell ionone and hedione and tea will probably be the last thing on my mind.
Exactlay when i smell jedione and beta ionone...there is no illusion of tea...just hedione and some rasberry feeling...yes voilet feel s gone....
 

Najengi

Basenotes Member
May 31, 2021
You may find this 2015 conversation of use. BLACK TEA ACCORD

Thanks for sharing this older thread julian35. Very useful. I particularly found the Science Direct article shared by Took in this thread with its list of the main tea aromas and their precursors of formation very illuminating (Table 8).

Anyway Fazal4822, I hope you get to create a Tea Accord you are happy with – with or without the help of Ellena. And I’d also like to say thankyou for starting this thread, it finally motivated me to play with some tea notes in the aromachemicals I own and has certainly made my tea drinking at Breakfast time a more interesting experience.

All the best.
 

Fazal Khan

Basenotes Member
Feb 19, 2019
Thanks for sharing this older thread julian35. Very useful. I particularly found the Science Direct article shared by Took in this thread with its list of the main tea aromas and their precursors of formation very illuminating (Table 8).

Anyway Fazal4822, I hope you get to create a Tea Accord you are happy with – with or without the help of Ellena. And I’d also like to say thankyou for starting this thread, it finally motivated me to play with some tea notes in the aromachemicals I own and has certainly made my tea drinking at Breakfast time a more interesting experience.

All the best.
Do share your observations...
 

Fazal Khan

Basenotes Member
Feb 19, 2019
I am trying followibg combination for green tea....what thoughts you guys have...
Hedione
Alpha damascone 1%
Cis 3 hexonal acete 10%
Ionones
Try coumarin for hayish affect
 

parker25mv

Basenotes Dependent
Oct 12, 2016
This may be off topic but menthyl acetate has strong muted "tea"-like feel,
and for green tea and especially Japanese matcha tea the recently released "bamboo ketone" (also called "green tea ketone") has an almost "buttery" feel (without actually being buttery), kind of like a vegetal fat or butter made from a light yellowish-green plant substance, to add the unique type of "smoothness" found in matcha.
 
Oct 3, 2016
"bamboo ketone" (also called "green tea ketone") has an almost "buttery" feel (without actually being buttery), kind of like a vegetal fat or butter made from a light yellowish-green plant substance, to add the unique type of "smoothness" found in matcha.
Did not find it on Vigon, can you share some?
 

Najengi

Basenotes Member
May 31, 2021
Harry (of Harrison joseph UK) also talks about this green tea-like molecule in one of his catch ups and smelling swaps with Sarah McCartney in one of her You Tube videos.

@Fazal4822 wondering how you got on with your Green Tea Accord? Getting back to you about sharing my observations...I tried David Ruskin’s suggestion about adding Clary Sage essential oil (from the Black Tea Accord old thread mentioned above) : https://basenotes.com/threads/black-tea-accord.411170/post-3612930. And I found combining clary sage eo with hedione and ionone (and an optional drop of Jasmine absolute) definitely took things in a green tea direction for me.
 

Horst

Basenotes Member
Oct 12, 2019
I made this accord recently. A touch of Indole makes this hyper realistic to me.
It's based on a formula from TGSC (I don't know how to link to it)
 

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Casper_grassy

Basenotes Dependent
May 5, 2020
I say increase the indole.

It looks like a nice accord, I’ve never tried making anything tea like and looking at the materials used I wouldn’t think “tea” but I can see how the cardamom would definitely help.

I don’t have damscenone so maybe i’m SOL, but i’ll try it without, but if it has similar strength and impact to damascones then the amount you have in it must have presence.
 

Horst

Basenotes Member
Oct 12, 2019
I say increase the indole.

It looks like a nice accord, I’ve never tried making anything tea like and looking at the materials used I wouldn’t think “tea” but I can see how the cardamom would definitely help.

I don’t have damscenone so maybe i’m SOL, but i’ll try it without, but if it has similar strength and impact to damascones then the amount you have in it must have presence.
More Indole could push it towards a more bitter black tea smell, maybe. Damascenone is quite nice. It's more round and full than damascone, but also less crisp and fruity. In this formula I think you can totally use Alpha Damascone.
 

sibie

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Aug 7, 2017
I know I may be way off here, but I was wondering....has anyone tried Tea Absolute (PCW sells a nice one), or Robertet's Black Tea Natural?
 

pkiler

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 5, 2007
I know I may be way off here, but I was wondering....has anyone tried Tea Absolute (PCW sells a nice one), or Robertet's Black Tea Natural?
I believe that Tea Absolute is extremely expensive, and as dark as violet leaf absolute.
So... you can't use very much, because it's too expensive, and makes black perfumes.
Honestly, I don't remember the Robertet. Black Tea was my quest for several years, that I conquered both price and color issues, by making it all from molecules. Which is the now Beautiful Black Tea base at PSH.
 

sibie

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Aug 7, 2017
I believe that Tea Absolute is extremely expensive, and as dark as violet leaf absolute.
So... you can't use very much, because it's too expensive, and makes black perfumes.
Honestly, I don't remember the Robertet. Black Tea was my quest for several years, that I conquered both price and color issues, by making it all from molecules. Which is the now Beautiful Black Tea base at PSH.
Not to mention Tea Absolute is like working with tar! Diluting it is downright painful....
 
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