Synthetic Musks cause for concern? Any other unsafe aroma chemicals to avoid?

hlbsehayek

Basenotes Member
Jan 1, 2023
Just came across this while researching musks:
https://www.safecosmetics.org/chemicals/synthetic-musks/

Anyone's thoughts on all of this?

Do you/should I avoid using synthetic Musks all together?

Musk Ketone has a level 4(medium) cause for concern:
https://www.ewg.org/skindeep/ingredients/720804-MUSK_KETONE/

Galaxolide has a level 6(medium -borderline high range) cause for concern:
https://www.ewg.org/skindeep/ingredients/700002-GALAXOLIDE/

At least Ethylene Brassylate has a level 1(lowest) cause for concern though even though it's synthetic:
https://www.ewg.org/skindeep/ingredients/702320-ETHYLENE_BRASSYLATE/

Any other aroma chemical safety or avoidance information i should know?
 
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mnitabach

Basenotes Dependent
Nov 13, 2020
Just came across this while researching musks:
https://www.safecosmetics.org/chemicals/synthetic-musks/

Anyone's thoughts on all of this?

Do you/should I avoid using synthetic Musks all together?

Musk Ketone has a level 4(medium) cause for concern:
https://www.ewg.org/skindeep/ingredients/720804-MUSK_KETONE/

Galaxolide has a level 6(medium -borderline high range) cause for concern:
https://www.ewg.org/skindeep/ingredients/700002-GALAXOLIDE/

At least Ethylene Brassylate has a level 1(lowest) cause for concern though even though it's synthetic:
https://www.ewg.org/skindeep/ingredients/702320-ETHYLENE_BRASSYLATE/

Any other aroma chemical safety or avoidance information i should know?
Whether something is "synthetic" or not is completely irrelevant to its safety in use.
 

hlbsehayek

Basenotes Member
Jan 1, 2023
Whether something is "synthetic" or not is completely irrelevant to its safety in use.
The issue for me isn't that they're synthetic or not. That's just whats covered and what they're called.

They mention a whole lot of serious issues, but I guess like @Thioacetone said maybe it all depends on the amount used, but haven't read into the referenced studies yet.

@ourmess yeah I guess IFRA levels would probably be based under the unsafe levels now that you mention that
 

hlbsehayek

Basenotes Member
Jan 1, 2023
I get the impression that you love conspiracy theories.
Lmao I said maybe it's my fault cause I did visit that Dior Homme basenotes link, but not anytime near the time I made this post, and if I pasted the safecosmetics link as text fine then it would've been the last one I had copied..... so maybe it's a conspiracy after all 🤣
 

RSG

Basenotes Junkie
Nov 26, 2016
Yea lets discuss EWG and other websites like them really quickly.

Their stance is that basically all chemicals and all fragrances are bad in every way possible. There isn't any flexibility with them.

Quotes from different places on the website.

"BHT – Known as a neurotoxin, endocrine disruptor, immunotoxicity, non-reproductive organ system toxicity, skin eye, and lung irritator

In reality, this is an antioxidant used in a great many foods and even many medicines. There is no creditable proof it causes all that they say it does, and antioxidants are generally healthy and powerful healers.

“Fragrance” – One of the three ingredients actually disclosed. It’s a neurotoxin, immunotoxin, and allergen"

Just saying that the listing on a label is a singular matter and causes all these problems is sheer factual laziness, not to mention gaslighting.

"Propylene Glycol – Causes cancer, allergies, toxic to the immune system, accumulates in the system, non-reproductive organ system toxin, is classified with “enhanced skin absorption” and irritates the skin, eye, and lung."

Again something is pretty innocuous and not known to cause all they are listing. Used in foods and meds. Including in almost all IV or injectable med formulations. In fact, the single greatest threat it poses is if you are a drug abuser on the street and you inject too much of it. enough to cause toxicity. Truly large amounts! They also allege that skin absorption is a problem. This is a feature by design. Yes, it can be dangerous if you take a full body immersion bath in it for 6 hours with no skin *rolls eyes. But in fact, I have a family member who had a 65% body burn and was in hypovolemic and hemodynamic shock. PG application was used as part of the emergency and ongoing treatment.

"Limonene – Allergen, immunotoxin and skin, eyes and lung irrigator"

Yea, maybe you shouldn't breathe in the air straight from a vat of limonene, but also maybe never clean your house or eat citrus ever again? Or just maybe keep using lemons to clean and eat oranges for a snack, and nothing will happen except that maybe one time you won't get a cold when you would have otherwise. :p

"Ethyl acetate – linked to developmental/reproductive toxicity, neurotoxicity, organic system toxicity and skin, eyes and lung irrigator."

Too easy. Not only is this known as nail polish remover, but it's also in all sorts of foods. Pineapples, sweet oranges, cabbages, agaves, peaches, cereal crops, radishes, fruit juices, fermented foods, cheese, beer, wine, spirits, etc

Geraniol – Linked to allergies, immunotoxicity, organ system toxicity, and skin, eyes, and lung irritation
Linalool – allergen, immunotoxin, and skin, eyes, and lung irritator
Benzaldehyde – neurotoxin, and skin, eyes, and lung irritator
Diethylene glycol monoethyl ether – non-reproductive organ system toxicity
Ethylhezanol – developmental and reproductive toxin and skin, eyes, and lung irritator

On and on it goes. All naturally occurring food products or used in medical injectables etc. Sure I wouldn't rub a lavender plant in my eye, but if it's gentle enough to be used for an infant or burn patient usage, then I'm not worried about a little perfume.

There are real dangers out there, and there are materials that can be dangerous. Most of what they talk about is a non issue.
 

Thioacetone

Super Member
Sep 7, 2022
The only thing EWG represents that will actually impact your health is to Eat Whole Grains. They exist purely to make $$$ off the 'chemical'-phobic population.
 
Aug 26, 2021
Food including fruits and veggies and drinks have chems/pesticides too. Shampoos, soaps and detergents are full of chems. The air from the cities is full of carcinogenic particles, etc. Tap water is cleaned with chems.
Fishes and seafood have chems too from the pollution. The toilet paper, especially the scented and colored one has chems.

Why bother ? Almost everything is toxic and carcinogenic.
 

CeeTee

Super Member
Dec 30, 2022
Just came across this while researching musks:
https://www.safecosmetics.org/chemicals/synthetic-musks/

Anyone's thoughts on all of this?

Do you/should I avoid using synthetic Musks all together?

Musk Ketone has a level 4(medium) cause for concern:
https://www.ewg.org/skindeep/ingredients/720804-MUSK_KETONE/

Galaxolide has a level 6(medium -borderline high range) cause for concern:
https://www.ewg.org/skindeep/ingredients/700002-GALAXOLIDE/

At least Ethylene Brassylate has a level 1(lowest) cause for concern though even though it's synthetic:
https://www.ewg.org/skindeep/ingredients/702320-ETHYLENE_BRASSYLATE/

Any other aroma chemical safety or avoidance information i should know?
I can’t contribute or answer your questions but……As much perfume as I wear, I’m starting to worry about chemicals. I need to read up on some of this because I read somewhere that natural materials are unstable and synthetic are more stable…Or some such. Again, I don’t no anything about this, so I need to research, but I’m glad you put this post up.
 

jsweet

Basenotes Member
Sep 16, 2021
Whether something is "synthetic" or not is completely irrelevant to its safety in use.
In fact, synthetics are relevant to safety whereas naturals are contrary to it. The contents of synthetics can be transparently identified and their harms weighed. When something is naturally sourced, we can only guess or estimate as to its chemical contents without conducting an error-prone and limited analysis. Imagine if EWG told everyone all of the poisons contained in natural extracts, but that isn't their agenda. It feels like such a relic of 80's and 90's new age spiritualism.
"Limonene – Allergen, immunotoxin and skin, eyes and lung irrigator"
lol
 

mnitabach

Basenotes Dependent
Nov 13, 2020
Food including fruits and veggies and drinks have chems/pesticides too. Shampoos, soaps and detergents are full of chems. The air from the cities is full of carcinogenic particles, etc. Tap water is cleaned with chems.
Fishes and seafood have chems too from the pollution. The toilet paper, especially the scented and colored one has chems.

Why bother ? Almost everything is toxic and carcinogenic.
Your entire body is made out of chemicals!
 

hlbsehayek

Basenotes Member
Jan 1, 2023
I appreciate everyone's feedback so far to address my concern and addressing the EWG site. I provided it as an extra source which seemed to be legitimate with their rating system in backup to the primary site which was my actual cause for concern since they actually mention specific issues and reference multiple studies.

Any thoughts/feedback on that one? Or would it just be that IFRA takes all of this into account already so i shouldn't worry? Can't help but worry when they mention such serious issues.
https://www.safecosmetics.org/chemicals/synthetic-musks/

Health Concerns​

Endocrine disruption: There is evidence that synthetic musks disrupt hormones. Musk ketone,[8],[9] galaxolide,[10],[11],[12] and tonalide[13] alter estrogen activity, and both tonalide and galaxolide inhibit androgen and progesterone from binding to their receptors.[14],[15] Musk ketone, musk xylene, and tonalide have also increased the growth and multiplication of estrogen-responsive human breast cancer cells.[16]

Organ system toxicity: Galaxolide and tonalide are toxic to brain and lung cells,[17] and evidence suggests tonalide damages liver cells.[18]

Reproductive and developmental toxicity: High levels of musk xylene and musk ketone in women’s blood may be associated with gynecological abnormalities such as ovarian failure and infertility.[19], [20] In embryonic cells, tonalide altered activity in nearly 3,000 genes, some of which are directly involved in development.[21] Galaxolide, tonalide, and musk ketone strongly inhibited larval development in plankton.[22]

Bioaccumulation: Because synthetic musks bioaccumulate and are only partially biodegradable, they are dispersed throughout our environment. Musk chemicals contaminate water, wastewater sludge, drinking water, soil, indoor air, and living species.[23],[24] These chemicals are toxic to a variety of aquatic organisms and have been found in commonly consumed seafood such as salmon and shrimp.[25],[26]

Synthetic musks have been detected in household dust and barbershop air.[27] Due to their ubiquity and potential to accumulate, synthetic musks are pervasive in peoples’ bodies. Musks are present in umbilical cord blood, placenta,[28],[29] and women’s breast milk, blood, and fat tissue from around the world including the United States,[30], [31] China,[32],[33] Korea,[34],[35] and Germany. [36],[37] Women over 50 years of age had higher levels of galaxolide and musk xylene compared to women under 50 years old.[38]

These chemicals were found in adults, college students, and toddlers, with toddlers having higher daily exposure levels than adults.[39]

Regulations​

Environmental concerns motivated Japan to ban musk xylene and other nitro-musks in the 1980s.[40] In line with the global International Fragrance Association (IFRA) standards, the European Commission banned musk xylene,[41],[42] while musk ketone and tonalide are restricted.[43],[44] The United States does not restrict their use.
Also if Musk Ketone(what i was actually looking into coming across all this) and Tonalide are restricted according to IFRA, why and how is it that the US doesn't restrict their use?
 

hlbsehayek

Basenotes Member
Jan 1, 2023
Food including fruits and veggies and drinks have chems/pesticides too. Shampoos, soaps and detergents are full of chems. The air from the cities is full of carcinogenic particles, etc. Tap water is cleaned with chems.
Fishes and seafood have chems too from the pollution. The toilet paper, especially the scented and colored one has chems.

Why bother ? Almost everything is toxic and carcinogenic.
Yea i guess were all pretty fucked in that sense. Guess it comes down to feeling better about yourself or just trying to harm reduce as much as possible so you can either suffer from regular old age problems eventually or for old age on extra hard mode with added health problems and illnesses. lol.
 
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David Ruskin

Basenotes Institution
May 28, 2009
I can’t contribute or answer your questions but……As much perfume as I wear, I’m starting to worry about chemicals. I need to read up on some of this because I read somewhere that natural materials are unstable and synthetic are more stable…Or some such. Again, I don’t no anything about this, so I need to research, but I’m glad you put this post up.
What "chemicals" are you worried about? The chemicals found in essential oils that are now classified as potential allergens? Or the chemicals that have been shown to be completely safe? What natural materials are unstable? And what does that mean? Reading "somewhere" really isn't good enough.
 

hlbsehayek

Basenotes Member
Jan 1, 2023
Yea lets discuss EWG and other websites like them really quickly.

Their stance is that basically all chemicals and all fragrances are bad in every way possible. There isn't any flexibility with them.

Quotes from different places on the website.

"BHT – Known as a neurotoxin, endocrine disruptor, immunotoxicity, non-reproductive organ system toxicity, skin eye, and lung irritator

In reality, this is an antioxidant used in a great many foods and even many medicines. There is no creditable proof it causes all that they say it does, and antioxidants are generally healthy and powerful healers.

“Fragrance” – One of the three ingredients actually disclosed. It’s a neurotoxin, immunotoxin, and allergen"

Just saying that the listing on a label is a singular matter and causes all these problems is sheer factual laziness, not to mention gaslighting.

"Propylene Glycol – Causes cancer, allergies, toxic to the immune system, accumulates in the system, non-reproductive organ system toxin, is classified with “enhanced skin absorption” and irritates the skin, eye, and lung."

Again something is pretty innocuous and not known to cause all they are listing. Used in foods and meds. Including in almost all IV or injectable med formulations. In fact, the single greatest threat it poses is if you are a drug abuser on the street and you inject too much of it. enough to cause toxicity. Truly large amounts! They also allege that skin absorption is a problem. This is a feature by design. Yes, it can be dangerous if you take a full body immersion bath in it for 6 hours with no skin *rolls eyes. But in fact, I have a family member who had a 65% body burn and was in hypovolemic and hemodynamic shock. PG application was used as part of the emergency and ongoing treatment.

"Limonene – Allergen, immunotoxin and skin, eyes and lung irrigator"

Yea, maybe you shouldn't breathe in the air straight from a vat of limonene, but also maybe never clean your house or eat citrus ever again? Or just maybe keep using lemons to clean and eat oranges for a snack, and nothing will happen except that maybe one time you won't get a cold when you would have otherwise. :p

"Ethyl acetate – linked to developmental/reproductive toxicity, neurotoxicity, organic system toxicity and skin, eyes and lung irrigator."

Too easy. Not only is this known as nail polish remover, but it's also in all sorts of foods. Pineapples, sweet oranges, cabbages, agaves, peaches, cereal crops, radishes, fruit juices, fermented foods, cheese, beer, wine, spirits, etc

Geraniol – Linked to allergies, immunotoxicity, organ system toxicity, and skin, eyes, and lung irritation
Linalool – allergen, immunotoxin, and skin, eyes, and lung irritator
Benzaldehyde – neurotoxin, and skin, eyes, and lung irritator
Diethylene glycol monoethyl ether – non-reproductive organ system toxicity
Ethylhezanol – developmental and reproductive toxin and skin, eyes, and lung irritator

On and on it goes. All naturally occurring food products or used in medical injectables etc. Sure I wouldn't rub a lavender plant in my eye, but if it's gentle enough to be used for an infant or burn patient usage, then I'm not worried about a little perfume.

There are real dangers out there, and there are materials that can be dangerous. Most of what they talk about is a non issue.
Thanks for taking the time to reply in full seriousness to address my concerns!
 

Thioacetone

Super Member
Sep 7, 2022
Just came across this while researching musks:
https://www.safecosmetics.org/chemicals/synthetic-musks/

Anyone's thoughts on all of this?

Do you/should I avoid using synthetic Musks all together?

Musk Ketone has a level 4(medium) cause for concern:
https://www.ewg.org/skindeep/ingredients/720804-MUSK_KETONE/

Galaxolide has a level 6(medium -borderline high range) cause for concern:
https://www.ewg.org/skindeep/ingredients/700002-GALAXOLIDE/

At least Ethylene Brassylate has a level 1(lowest) cause for concern though even though it's synthetic:
https://www.ewg.org/skindeep/ingredients/702320-ETHYLENE_BRASSYLATE/

Any other aroma chemical safety or avoidance information i should know?
Dude the fried food you are eating is worse for your health than any of those aromachemicals lol

EDIT (pic removed as per OP's request)
 
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hlbsehayek

Basenotes Member
Jan 1, 2023
Dude the fried food you are eating here is worse for your health than any of those aromachemicals lol

View attachment 320180
please delete that cause my moms in it lol. thought i made that account private but thanks for letting me know its not.
also, not the same age i was then being less informed and less conscious about health.
do you have the same habits from when you were 13 or 15 or whenever?
 
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Thioacetone

Super Member
Sep 7, 2022
please delete that lol, thought i made that account private but thanks for letting me know its not.
also, not the same age i was then being less informed and less conscious about health, which is what we do as we grow older.
do you have the same habits from when you were 13 or 15 or whenever?
I used to be super health obsessed but now I realise we are all going to die one way or another
And if you live to an old age you will probably get cancer or Alzheimer's.
YOLO
 

CeeTee

Super Member
Dec 30, 2022
What "chemicals" are you worried about? The chemicals found in essential oils that are now classified as potential allergens? Or the chemicals that have been shown to be completely safe? What natural materials are unstable? And what does that mean? Reading "somewhere" really isn't good enough.
I commented that I didn’t know the answer. I have heard things, in passing, as one does, which raised my interest. Therefore, it‘s something worth researching. 👍
 

mnitabach

Basenotes Dependent
Nov 13, 2020
I used to be super health obsessed but now I realise we are all going to die one way or another
And if you live to an old age you will probably get cancer or Alzheimer's.
YOLO
This is obvs completely off-topic for this forum, but this is why the distinct concept of "healthspan" as opposed to "lifespan" has gained recent prominence in public health and medicine. Yes, we are all going to die eventually. But do you want to spend many of your last years suffering pain & misery, unable to enjoy the things in life you most value? Or do you want to spend your last years active, comfortable, and able to enjoy them? For some people, this is a very compelling reason to make lifestyle choices that are supported by good evidence to increase the likelihood of the latter & decrease the likelihood of the former. Returning to the topic of this thread, IMO there is not a single "banned" aromachemical that has ever been in common use & is conceivably available for purchase now that when applied to skin in a perfume is likely to move the needle on lifespan or healthspan.
 

Casper_grassy

Basenotes Dependent
May 5, 2020
If you wear perfume everyday, assuming it isn’t always the same one, (they all won’t contain the same amount of allergens, some formulas I work on have multiple materials at their maximum restrictied limits) I couldn’t imagine the quantity needed to be sprayed on skin to really cause lifelong harm. Many of the materials still used have been used for long enough to know the potential negative effects.

Also IFRA restrictions are probably so far on the safe side that even a materials restricted % won’t cause any issues, because if something is “dangerous” at 0.9% you’d be a moron to restrict it to 0.8% lol. They probably cut it down by half. And if this is true I’m using Oakmoss absolute at 0.19% ha.
 
Aug 26, 2021
One funny or sad story to tell. I had a work colleague that he liked so much the scent of a liquid air freshener for cars that he used it as an aftershave after he shaved his beard. lol His skin was so badly irritated and rashed. After that his skin was peeling off and regenerated.
 

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