Reseda accord suggestions

jfrater

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2005
Hey all. I managed to find a supplier of reseda absolute and I'm planning to use it in a reseda accord. I have a couple of formulas but was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on good ingredients to look at for it. I have never smelled reseda (mignonette) so I am building blind.
 

Renegade

Well-known member
Jul 30, 2011
I've never tried to make a reseda accord, but I have smelled the flowers. They smell sweet / raspberry / green / earthy. I would start with ionones (probably beta), maybe alpha irone too, and a touch of galbanum.
 

jfrater

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2005
I've never tried to make a reseda accord, but I have smelled the flowers. They smell sweet / raspberry / green / earthy. I would start with ionones (probably beta), maybe alpha irone too, and a touch of galbanum.

Galbanum is the bane of my life! I can't for the life of me manage to get it into anything and make it smell good :) I shall have to keep working on that I guess. I have everything else you have mentioned so that's a plus :)
 

Chris Smith

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2015
From what I've read on the net, Reseda or Mignonette absolute provides a green note. It's described as intense, herbaceous green. Also, the odor recalls violet leaf but with a fine powdery background plus a suggestion of rose and a bit of basil. Chemical constituents include Aldehyde C-8, C-10, eugenol and caprylic acid.
 

Nizan

Well-known member
Nov 15, 2013
I think I have a Reseda accord somewhere.. I will look for it.
I'm very interested in this accord, since it appears in some perfumes that I like. Too bad the abs. isn't carried in small amounts anywhere.
Where did you get yours?
 

jfrater

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2005
I got it from sunrise botanicals. It seems to be fairly cheap at around $130 an ounce but we'll see when it arrives.
 

Toujours Mink

Well-known member
Feb 9, 2015
jfrater, I'm afraid you aren't getting what you thought you were getting. I just looked at Sunrise's website (if it's the one in Canada). I got suspicious when I saw "absolutes" for "chypre" and "fougere." Up above, it says "Made using natural isolates. A cost effective alternative to absolutes." I had to laugh when I saw the fern they depicted for "fougere". It's not a real fern, it's synthetic.
 

jfrater

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2005
jfrater, I'm afraid you aren't getting what you thought you were getting. I just looked at Sunrise's website (if it's the one in Canada). I got suspicious when I saw "absolutes" for "chypre" and "fougere." Up above, it says "Made using natural isolates. A cost effective alternative to absolutes." I had to laugh when I saw the fern they depicted for "fougere". It's not a real fern, it's synthetic.

I thought the same thing when I saw the fern and the chypre actually. The hunt continues! Apparently only 5kg of the real thing is made in France each year. I have another alternative which is boronia absolute - a must for violet accords but also appropriate for reseda because it is high in ionones.
 

Nizan

Well-known member
Nov 15, 2013
Here are three bases from Gattefosse:

Mignonette I
alpha Ionone 250
Orris resinoid 50
Methyl Ionone 100
Phenylproyl Acetate 100
Geraniol (Palmarosa) 200
Phenylethyl Acetate 75
Styrallyl Acetate 25
Methylnonyl Ketone 25
Bergamot 75
Terpineol 100
Total 1000

Mignonette II
Methyl Ionone 300
alpha Ionone 50
Methyl Heptine Carbonate 10
C10-C12 Aldehyde 20
Benzyl Acetate 80
Begramot 150
Petitgrain 80
Sweet Basil 10
Ylang (Bourbon) 30
Liquid Orris 50
Reseda Absolute 20
Linalool (Lavandin) 100
Phenylpropyl Alcohol 100
Total 1000

Mignonette III
Synthetic Mignonette 440
Phenylethyl Acetate 80
Guaiacol Acetate 90
Cinnamic Alcohol 160
Synthetic Carnation Flowers 70
Santalol or Cedrol 85
Methyl Ionone 90
Vetiverol 40
Terpineol 60
Resinodour Benzoin 75
C10-C12 Aldehyde 5
Total 1195
 

jfrater

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2005
Thanks Nizan - I actually have his book - it has some really excellent formulae in it though I tend more towards Poucher when they both have formulae as he gives a great deal more detail on what chemicals and naturals blend well. If you don't have his book (book II) I strongly recommend it.
 

jfrater

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2005
I cancelled the order from that place because it's fake but I found another supplier. On the other hand they are commercial suppliers and I am waiting to hear back whether they will be willing to sell some to me.

I have since done some research and, in combination with some suggestions by poucher, if I can't get reseda absolute I will probably use a combination of boronia absolute (natural ionones which both reseda and violet have) and tobacco absolute. It turns out that a HUGE percent of the odor of reseda is the same set of chemicals in tobacco.

I also found a fascinating formula for reseda in a very old book online that makes the whole thing as a giant tincture of various natural ingredients (the largest being orris root). The author claims it is barely distinguishable from real reseda absolute. If I get time I might give it a try - but I am quite busy working on my lilac and muguet accords at present - and perfecting the ever difficult rose accords. I MUST get a perfect Rose D'Orient (otto replacer) for my opoponax accord so I can use it in my L'Origan derivative.
 

nemenator

Well-known member
Dec 8, 2012
Reseda C by Felix Cola-
175 Phenylpropyl acetate
175 Geraniol from palmarosa
70 Phenylethyl acetate
20 Styrallyl acetate
65 Coumarin
50 Dimethylhydroquinone
75 Methyl ionone
55 Iris resinoid (R.S. = R. Sornin?)
100 Alpha ionone
35 Isoeugenol
25 Methyl nonyl ketone
40 Musk ambrette
115 Bergamot
1000
 

gecko214

Well-known member
May 7, 2010
I don't know its any use in a base reconstruction but I did buy some "reseda body" from proxisante which I have been using in an herbal tobacco accord. Since I have not smelled the actual absolute I don't know how lcose it is or what part of the flower's smell it represents. I would love to get some actual absolute though so jfrater if you are successful with your supplier and would like to sell some on, or of you need to meet minimum quantity, let me know...
 

pkiler

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 5, 2007
One of these days when I have a boatload of money, (or a friend with a GC,) I have several vintage bases made by different suppliers that I have samples from, that I'd get analyzed. I do have a vintage Reseda base here from Charabot. Can't get anymore, it's from my supplier that burned to the ground... Dang!

PK
 

jfrater

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2005
Reseda C by Felix Cola-
175 Phenylpropyl acetate
175 Geraniol from palmarosa
70 Phenylethyl acetate
20 Styrallyl acetate
65 Coumarin
50 Dimethylhydroquinone
75 Methyl ionone
55 Iris resinoid (R.S. = R. Sornin?)
100 Alpha ionone
35 Isoeugenol
25 Methyl nonyl ketone
40 Musk ambrette
115 Bergamot
1000

Interesting! That's a lot of Musk Ambrette! Actually that's the first formula I have seen using MA exclusively without support from the other nitro musks. I might give it a try.
 

Chris Bartlett

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Jul 17, 2011
I don't know its any use in a base reconstruction but I did buy some "reseda body" from proxisante which I have been using in an herbal tobacco accord. Since I have not smelled the actual absolute I don't know how lcose it is or what part of the flower's smell it represents. I would love to get some actual absolute though so jfrater if you are successful with your supplier and would like to sell some on, or of you need to meet minimum quantity, let me know...

I have Reseda Body, should anyone want some. Sadly I’m in a bit of a quandary when it comes to describing it though as I’m completely anosmic to it...
 

Renegade

Well-known member
Jul 30, 2011
I'm smelling IFF's "Hyacinth Body" now and it is very reminiscent of reseda flowers. I think it smells a bit more like reseda than it does of hyacinth actually.
 

pkiler

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 5, 2007
Smelling my reseda body IFF, the first thing I get is green peas. I have not smelled reseda flowers though for a comparison. I have smelled Hyacinth flowers, which make me sick/headache-y.

I get a dry galbanum now... (off my skin)


PK
 

parker25mv

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2016
For a very detailed discussion on a Reseda Accord (which is not an easy thing to do, and seems to be an obscure perfumery note) there's a great discussion here:
"Mignonette (Reseda odorata) Reseda absolute"

A very quick summary of that long thread:

Some ACs that were mentioned were: ethyl decine carbonate or ethyl heptine carbonate (smelling "mignonette, waxy", has reseda nuances that are kind of citrusy, fruity violet), leafy acetal (2-(1-propoxyethoxy)ethylbenzene, smelling "dry-green, like Reseda-absolute, as well as reminiscent of tobacco; or powerful leafy green with facets of hyacinth"), Viridine (phenyl acetaldehyde dimethyl acetal, spicy foliage notes, earthy-rooty notes that can be useful in a reseda accord), possibly benzyl acetone (green floral very diffusive, reminiscent of tobacco flowers).

Resda Acetal (sold as Reseda Body) was also mentioned. The possibility of Edenolide (musk) was mentioned for fruity aspects. Ethyl 2-methoxybenzoate (sweet, floral, heavy-fruity) is one of the three main substances found in the natural hyacinth flowers.


Two different formulas for supposed reseda accords were also listed in that discussion.

A:
Ethyl decine carbonate 50 cc.
Methyl ionone 200 cc.
Reseda geraniol 250 cc.
Cassie absolute 50 cc.
Jasmin (or possibly Hedione as a substitute)
Orris oleo-resin 75 cc.
Labdanum R. 50 cc.
Reseda absolute 200 cc.
Duodecyl alcohol 20 cc.
Clary sage oil 5 cc.
B:
Methyl ionone 300 cc.
Hexyl methyl ketone 100 cc.
Violet leaf concrete (or possibly accord) 50 grams
Methyl heptine carbonate 10 cc.
Aldehyde C-12 10 cc.
Benzyl acetate 50 cc.
Orris oil concrete 50 cc.
Basil oil 50 cc.
Sandalwood 100 cc.
Cistus R. 40 cc.
Geraniol 100 cc.
Ylang (Bourbon) 30 cc.
Musk ambrette 10 grams
Reseda concrete 100 grams


Anonis/Gattefosse 1950

250 alpha ionone
50 Orris resinoid
100 Methyl ionone
100 Phenyl propyl acetate (possibly Cinnamyl acetate as a substitute; anyway probably doesn't smell that different from phenyl ethyl acetate)
75 Phenyl ethyl acetate
200 Geraniol palmarosa
25 Styralyl acetate
25 Methyl nonyl ketone
75 Bergamot
 

parker25mv

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2016
Also probably way too advanced for any of you, but much of the natural smell of reseda probably comes from theaspirone, which could potentially be artificially created by selectively oxidizing theaspirane (Orspirane) with tert-butyl hydroperoxide in the presence of a cobalt ion catalyst and NHPI (N‐Hydroxyphthalimide).

(see reference "N-Hydroxyphthalimide catalyzed allylic oxidation of steroids with t-butyl hydroperoxide" Qian Zhao, Chao Qian, Xin-Zhi Chen , for very similar sort of reaction)

Theaspirone occurs in levels as high as 8-17% in the headspace concentrate of mignonette flowers, which is considered a remarkably high level for this sort of complex sesquiterpene molecule.
(The Bo Jensen site cites "Volatile compounds from flowers: Analytical and olfactory aspects, Surburg H, Guentert M, Harder H" as a reference for that)

None of us know what exactly theaspirone smells like, but I suspect it is a little bit fruity in a reseda sort of way and exquisite.
To get some better idea of what it might smell like, first consider the smell of theaspirane, and then compare the smell of valencene to nootkatone to get some idea of how this type of oxidation would typically change the smell.

(Probably going into far too much detail but there are actually two forms of theaspirone. The flowers seem to contain slightly higher levels of the dihydro form. I doubt the two would smell very different, in these type of situations the unsaturated form would typically be expected to smell a little more terpenic with texture. The dihydro form would probably be the one that would be far easier to create synthetically, but the specific method mentioned above would create the much more challenging to synthesize unsaturated form.)

Even though, after reading this, we now know more about the chemistry and the source of the smell in natural Reseda, I do not believe the obscure and difficult Theaspirone (which is not even commercially available) is truly needed to make a good replication of the smell of Reseda, since there are other options.
If I can draw a similar analogy to the synthetic tobacco accords, typically veltonal or isophoryl acetate were used to add the subtle berry aspect for richness instead of theaspirane, which is found in the natural.
 

skuharev

Member
Sep 20, 2019
my Reseda body IFF smells for me greenery on the city street and a trace of cigarette smoke (like the place near the building where they recently smoked) plus maybe a lil hyacinth-ish too.
 

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