Questions and a Journal from a perfume Noob

Thioacetone

Super Member
Sep 7, 2022
Today I learned you also have to refrigerate pine oils due to the oxidization potential. Well shit, my essential oils are about 1 and a half year old, I did keep my citruses in the fridge for that duration but now I have doubts. They still smell great but not being able tell really bothers me
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Once oxidation has begun it is difficult to halt, but the onset
of oxidation can be prevented for a period of weeks, months or
years by storage under nitrogen, by keeping a product cool, by
screening it from UV rays, and by the addition of antioxidants
such as (synthetic) butylated hydroxytoluene (BHT) or (natural)
a-tocopherol. The efficacy of other natural antioxidants
with regard to essential oil oxidation has not been much studied,
but these include other tocopherols, rosmarinic acid, propyl
gallate and ascorbyl palmitate. Combinations may be more
effective than single chemicals. We recommend that effective
antioxidant systems are used in preparations containing essential
oils prone to oxidation.


I wouldn't use those old pine oils - could be dangerous (sensitising)
 

DezireFrags

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 27, 2021
I calculated the months and turns out they’re about 1 year and 5 months old. They’ve been inside all this time from light but they weren’t refrigerated. They don’t smell off, but it is safer to just buy a fresh batch.

I made a lot of progress, I’ve made a spreadsheet for my oils and have a bunch of diluted absolutes now.

My least favorite absolute is cacao absolute it takes a lot of work to dissolve it
 

DezireFrags

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 27, 2021
I wanted to ask, my fossilized Amber came prediluted with sunflower oil. Is this potentially bad for the atomizer or will it dissolve? I feel like I already know the answer is to take the L on this solution and buy the Amber and tincture it myself 😅
 

pkiler

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 5, 2007
Uh, throw away anything that comes in any vegetable or fixed oil. Buy Eden's fossilized amber, and dilute in alcohol.

And stop taking advice from idiots.
 

DezireFrags

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 27, 2021
I’m diluting my conifer absolutes to 10% for now they’re way too strong at 20%
I’ll buy separate ones later for 20% and 5% respectively.
I’ve made a lot of groundwork. My spreadsheet now calculates total grams in the composition and the % so that I know when I’m hitting extrait levels. I’ve put about 40 different ingredients in it so far now it’s just a matter of tweaking lol.
I wish I had some genuine oud oils. Still waiting on my animals to come through in another 2 weeks hopefully.
Lvnea has a perfume class tomorrow so I’m gonna join and see what’s up!
 

DezireFrags

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 27, 2021
I came across an interesting subject with ensar oud, a lot of his oils are very expensive due to the reasons of being rare and aged materials.
I’m wondering what the secret to the aging process is. The oils are stored in darkness in a certain temperature so they don’t spoil but enough warmth to facilitate some kind of reaction in the oils. I know aging pine and citruses would be too hard.
Does aging stop once the oils are subjected to dilution in alcohol? Because from my understanding alcohol simply helps extract the constituents. Same with the myth of aging wines and alcohols I beleive there is a certain limit as there is no oxidation but rather relying on the components to react based on a steady temperature so maybe I’m wrong
 

DezireFrags

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 27, 2021
well tragedy finally struck today. While trying to get a pill out of my jar I forgot the scale is made out of medal so when I went to lift it up it lifted the scale and dumped 15ml worth of contents onto my desk so was extremely pissed and broke my scale. I probably lost about $30-$40 worth of materials in that batches since I was playing with neroli and Agarwood.
Safe to say I’m getting a lesser strength magnet and a new scale 😇

Update: I diluted the remainder amount and made a 10% formula, this time no skin irritation and I tracked every safety % as well so way below IFRA limits. lemon grass, pine, fir, orange, white florals, nutmeg, clove, cinnamon sandalwood, chocolate, oakmoss, tonka bean.
I can’t wait to make another formula!

I did have hesitations about my current stock of pine oils and citruses so I might have to rebuy them, I did keep the citruses in a fridge for about a year and a half, my pine oils have been inside my house for 75 Fahrenheit and dark, they don’t smell spoiled but my complacent I dont risk it
 
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DezireFrags

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 27, 2021
Got my new scale from US solid and absolutely a dud US. SOLID 0.001g 1mg.

The weight was constantly off and the place was just covered in cheap plastic film almost impossible to fully remove without scraping. I’m just gonna stick to my .00 onilab which is much more reliable.

I tinctured my first civet paste! Phew that is smelly like dirty sanchez lol. I’m considering using orris root to soften the fecal notes, that’s the only method I know. I have it 1:10 but I’ve seen it by apothecary garden do 1:40

Got a bunch of oud from violet glass on Etsy, I hope they’re the real quality!

I think vetiveraromatics is over pricing their 200 proof alcohol as perfumers apprentice is cheaper by 50% for a more interesting blend I emailed them to find out why
 

pkiler

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 5, 2007
probably lost about $30-$40 worth of materials
Don't feel bad, I lost $700 worth of materials because my lab helper put a natural in that she says was moldy. eeek, never ever had anything go moldy before, and why the heck WOULD she put something that she knew was moldy in a formula, anyways...??? No common sense...
 

DezireFrags

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 27, 2021
Don't feel bad, I lost $700 worth of materials because my lab helper put a natural in that she says was moldy. eeek, never ever had anything go moldy before, and why the heck WOULD she put something that she knew was moldy in a formula, anyways...??? No common sense...
Wow! Absolutely. Always keep my seals tight and citruses pines refrigerated and make sure no water is left over when washing or cross contaminates. Eek! Would hate for my expensive florals to 🪦 like that
 

DezireFrags

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 27, 2021
I bought two gallons of 200 proof 40 denature alcohol for $70 on Amazon while $64 for half gallon from vetiver aromatics. Absolute scam. Basically their foundation is starter for perfumers and marketing toward perfumers.

Ethanol99.8864-17-51000 ppm TWA
T-butyl alcohol.1275-65-0100 ppm TWA 150 STEL
Bitrex (Denatonium Benzoate).0006


One on Amazon is 99.5% Ethanol
.5% ionized water. Perfumers apprentice has a formula even better that you can also use in addition.

So hoping whoever buys from vetiver aromatics their perfumers alcohol is just marketed bull crap that they’re overpricing to new people on perfumer looking up google search results
 

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pkiler

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 5, 2007
I bought two gallons of 200 proof 40 denature alcohol for $70 on Amazon while $64 for half gallon from vetiver aromatics. Absolute scam. Basically their foundation is starter for perfumers and marketing toward perfumers.
If this is really the same as what I buy from the MFR, and amazon shipping is free, then this is a great price and deal.
 

DezireFrags

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 27, 2021
If this is really the same as what I buy from the MFR, and amazon shipping is free, then this is a great price and deal.
HIGH Impact 99.5% Ethyl Alcohol Denatured 40-B 200 Proof Alcohol - Made in The USA - Gallon (Pack of 4) https://a.co/d/a7FJBWB

$130 for 4 gallons! It had solid reviews, no putrid or rancid batches reported

Now it doesn’t have T-butyl alcohol listed in the ingredients. It’s listed as a denaturent and as a perfume carrier. I’m assuming that it’s not needed as the alcohol is listed as denatured. Though I’m not sure how it’s denatured as it’s not listed. It could be that the amount is so insignificant it’s not listed

 

pkiler

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 5, 2007
HIGH Impact 99.5% Ethyl Alcohol Denatured 40-B 200 Proof Alcohol - Made in The USA - Gallon (Pack of 4) https://a.co/d/a7FJBWB

$130 for 4 gallons! It had solid reviews, no putrid or rancid batches reported
Yes, that is the listing that I found.
My aggregate cost of gas plus alcohol to this point, buying in 5 gallon drums is still $40/gallon, and requires 3+ hours to go pick it up, which is not factored into my cost. So at $32.50 delivered, it is a good savings of both time and money.
 

Thioacetone

Super Member
Sep 7, 2022
HIGH Impact 99.5% Ethyl Alcohol Denatured 40-B 200 Proof Alcohol - Made in The USA - Gallon (Pack of 4) https://a.co/d/a7FJBWB

$130 for 4 gallons! It had solid reviews, no putrid or rancid batches reported

Now it doesn’t have T-butyl alcohol listed in the ingredients. It’s listed as a denaturent and as a perfume carrier. I’m assuming that it’s not needed as the alcohol is listed as denatured. Though I’m not sure how it’s denatured as it’s not listed. It could be that the amount is so insignificant it’s not listed


§ 21.76 Formula No. 40-B.
(a) Formula. To every 100 gallons of alcohol add:

One-sixteenth avoirdupois ounce of denatonium benzoate, N.F., and 1/8 gallon of tert-butyl alcohol.
 

DezireFrags

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 27, 2021
I decided to mess with black currant and 3 days in I have something berry, jammy, bits of spice, maybe juicy from the rose de Mai. Im still figuring out if I want to add pine to it or even lemon. I don’t want to dry out my berry so maybe just a little to test.

My civet cat is now 2.5% diluted with orris root and just playing the game of time. Still fricken stinks like nothing else haha! I didn’t grind the orris root with the civet so I’m gonna have to wait longer.

I have so many absolutes I ordered like $2k worth of oud and sandalwood . I really want some deer pod so I’m selling a lot of my collection!
 

pkiler

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 5, 2007
I have so many absolutes I ordered like $2k worth of oud and sandalwood . I really want some deer pod so I’m selling a lot of my collection!
As a novice, it is easy to get taken to the cleaners for these naturals, did you order from reputable suppliers?
 

DezireFrags

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 27, 2021
As a novice, it is easy to get taken to the cleaners for these naturals, did you order from reputable suppliers?
Oh yeah! I tried my best! Eden Botanicals is a great starter pack. Mandy Aftelier offers some interesting nuances, For example their blood orange is more vibrant and sweeter than eden's imo. Royal Bengali oud and VioletGlassForever.

I think I've yet to be disappointed! I can name some more good ones, Rising sun botanicals, Lotus botanicals has a good selection as well! I probably won't be able to afford anything Ensar oud related for a while, plus its more fun trying to mimick and create accords anyways. Mandy Aftel has an Oud-lite for $24 that has a nice dry balsamy tone to it, then I can go from there adding cocoa, smoke, leather whichever! Another forum also sells oud oils and other good offerings for a bit less than retail.

I actually just bought a bunch of stuff from perfumers apprentice as well! A lot of nice natural isolates and EOs to shop from. Got there blend for the top note extender as well
 

DezireFrags

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 27, 2021
I have done a bunch of shopping since I last updated here. Black Friday has so many deals.
I bought 30ml of Thai oud from violet glass for about $500 which is honestly amazing.
I am considering buying oud from sabilyoud their price by tola is pretty good for Thai, Cambodia, and lao ouds. Nothing artisanal but fantastic for perfume making.
I have some deer pods in the way as well! Also got my ambergris that I need to grate! My civet musk has been tincturing for about 2 weeks and has changed really well. It smells like sweat and sex lol.
I have done much perfuming lately as I have a bad habit of waiting for everything to arrive then working. I even bought Mandy aftels new blue lotus so I can wait to see how that is like as it very inexpensive !

I had to avoid buying certain products and tinctures from vendors because they are way overpriced. You can buy ambergris from ambergrisconnect and tincture them yourself. I saw a 10% 100ml ambergris tincture for nearly $1000 which is absurd. 10g of ambergris is about $300-$400 and there is nothing special about preparing one.
 

DezireFrags

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 27, 2021
Anyone know where to get some goat hair lol. I need some for a tincture.

I had gotten ahold of castoreum absolute from Perfume supply, very Smokey rubbery, meaty almost. I diluted to 10%. Absolutes I’m not sure if they need to age unlike grains. But im assuming that age will play a factor anyways.
 
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