perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

seasplash

New member
Jun 19, 2012
Hi,

Can anyone suggest some perfume formulas that would use perfumers alcohol, glycerin, distilled water and the fragrance oils?

I want to use between 10-15% fragrance oil

Thanks so much!
 

Chris Bartlett

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Jul 17, 2011
Why would you want to put glycerine in it? You will create all sorts of solubility problems and make your fragrance sticky on the skin to boot.

Distilled water is also not necessary but with 10-15% fragrance materials you could probably get away with 5% water to make it a bit cheaper to produce, depending on what's in your perfumer's alcohol. If your perfumers alcohol contains isopropyl myristate I wouldn't risk adding water as it's likely to go cloudy.

Also be aware that you need to use pure or near-pure fragrance materials for this to work - pure essential oils and aroma chemicals rather than the sort of fragrance oil often sold for use directly and confusingly often called 'pure perfume oil' by those who sell it - it's really at best 30% fragrance materials, with the rest some kind of carrier oil that may or may not dissolve in ethanol.
 

seasplash

New member
Jun 19, 2012
My fragrance oil supplier suggested the following percentages for the perfume I am planning to create:
Fragrance: 10.48%
Alcohol SDA-40: 79.00%
DiH2O: 10.52%

And I was reading the mixed reviews of adding dipropylene glycol or a glycerin for the scent to last longer on the skin. It seems the consensus on basenotes is that dipropylene glycol with do nothing to help with scent lasting on skin???? but with many online searches the consensus is that it does help with staying power....really confused on this one.

My fragrance oil is pure and does not have any additives or carrier oils added to it.

Thanks so much for any advice.
 

David Ruskin

Basenotes Dependent
May 28, 2009
Oh Gawd, this again. I don't care what anyone has read, all I know is what I have experienced in over 30 years as a perfumer. To my knowledge DPG is not used as a fixative in Perfumery.

If you are unsure, why not experiment yourself? Take two samples of your fragrance mix; to one add some DPG (about 10.0%), leave the other alone. Dip your two samples and compare strength, and change in odour over a couple of hours. Should you wish, extend this over a couple of days. Smell, at first, every 30 minutes, then after an hour or so, smell every hour. Make notes, and come to a conclusion.
 

janmeut

Super Member
Aug 11, 2006
Maybe we should go back to basics:

Perfume is a mixture of a fragrance compound and alcohol. You don't add a fixative afterwards to a fragrance, the fragrance compound needs to have enough fixative power of its own. So in general: don't add glycerin, DPG, DEP, IPM, glucose syrup, BB, Herculyn D or whatever substance to your perfume as a fixative, purchase a good fragrance compound instead.

When you paint the walls and the rain whashes the paint down you could spray a fixative (like a lacquer) over the wall, it might help, will affect the appearance, but it would be much better to use water resistant paint in the first place.
 

jsparla

Basenotes Junkie
Jun 5, 2011
Totally agree with Jan and David;
however, there seems to be one "additive" called Glucam P-20, which acts as a post-added fixative for top/middle notes:

Quote PerfumersApprentice: "This is a material used for the fixing of top and some middle notes. For example, experiments performed in house show that Sweet Orange essential oil (one of the most fleeting of scents- usually lasting only two minutes on the skin) was increased to last half an hour or more on the skin.
Use up to 5% of your fragrance formula concentrate, but experiment! Using too much will "flatten" a fragrance."


Website: http://www.lubrizol.com/PersonalCare/Products/MethylGlucosides/GlucamP-20.html
 

pkiler

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 5, 2007
Thanks JSPARLA for reminding peeps of this one.

And Still, adding glycerin is supremely BAD.
but, "It's on the Internet, so it must be true!"

WRONG!!!
 

Chris Bartlett

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Jul 17, 2011
Totally agree with Jan and David;
however, there seems to be one "additive" called Glucam P-20, which acts as a post-added fixative for top/middle notes:

Quote PerfumersApprentice: "This is a material used for the fixing of top and some middle notes. For example, experiments performed in house show that Sweet Orange essential oil (one of the most fleeting of scents- usually lasting only two minutes on the skin) was increased to last half an hour or more on the skin.
Use up to 5% of your fragrance formula concentrate, but experiment! Using too much will "flatten" a fragrance."


Website: http://www.lubrizol.com/PersonalCare/Products/MethylGlucosides/GlucamP-20.html

It's certainly true that Glucam P-20 works as a fixative and is more-or-less odourless, but I still don't recommend adding separately - if I use it I build it in to the fragrance formula - just like benzyl benzoate, which is also an almost odourless fixative.

Any fixative will have a differential impact on some components of the fragrance - so you may need to adjust other parts of the formula to compensate for it's effect - if you add some at the end the resulting fragrance will likely have more lasting power but may not smell the same as it did before you added it, even though the additive itself is odourless.

I realise that's counter-intuitive but is essentially the same thing that David and others have describe in relation to materials they are anosmic to: even if you can't smell Benzyl salicylate on it's own you can detect the smoothing effect it has when it's in the blend. Hope that helps.
 

Nizan

Basenotes Dependent
Nov 15, 2013
Ok, so I'll hijack this one as well - since I'm having some trouble with my supposed-to-be base notes..
Thought of trying those almost-odorless fixatives, but I don't have any.. I know benzyl-benzoate,
benzyl-cinnamate and cynnamyl-cinnamate.. Is there anything else I should consider buying to fix
things?
Thanks
 

Chris Bartlett

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Jul 17, 2011
Ok, so I'll hijack this one as well - since I'm having some trouble with my supposed-to-be base notes..
Thought of trying those almost-odorless fixatives, but I don't have any.. I know benzyl-benzoate,
benzyl-cinnamate and cynnamyl-cinnamate.. Is there anything else I should consider buying to fix
things?
Thanks

A couple of much-underrated fixatives with low-odour that you could consider are IPM and Hedione: they both have a wide-spectrum fixative effect and IPM is as good as odourless, while Hedione has a distinct odour it is easily pushed in the direction of other things it’s used with.
 

Meriem

New member
Mar 16, 2014
...while Hedione has a distinct odour it is easily pushed in the direction of other things it’s used with.
Is that what is meant when its called an exalter? I assumed it meant it provided a kind of harmony...making other notes "better" without taking over. Is that sort-of correct?

I've been wanting to try using it, but was hesitant that it might really add jasmine as a note that might overpower (nothing's wrong with jasmine per se, just not where it's not needed).
 
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Chris Bartlett

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Jul 17, 2011
Is that what is meant when its called an exalter? I assumed it meant it provided a kind of harmony...making other notes "better" without taking over. Is that sort-of correct?

I've been wanting to try using it, but was hesitant that it might really add jasmine as a note that might overpower (nothing's wrong with jasmine per se, just not where it's not needed).

Yes that’s pretty much it - exalt also often implies an improvement in diffusion and radiant certainly carries that implication.

I wouldn’t worry about introducing jasmine with hedione: there’s a good reason it’s in 80% of the perfumes on the market, you can use it with almost anything and it’s especially effective with citrus as well as many other florals besides jasmine. You can use anywhere from 1-50% of the formula too so well worth experimenting with.

For even bigger impact you could also try Hedione HC, which I especially like in more masculine compositions.
 

Nizan

Basenotes Dependent
Nov 15, 2013
Hmm.. too scared to use hedione - it always takes things to unexpected places..
I'm a little confused about IPM - I thought that the bottom line was not to think of
it as a fixative..
Anyhow, I just ordered some cinnamyl cinnamate from Adam.. And some ambermax :)
 

Meriem

New member
Mar 16, 2014
Hmm.. too scared to use hedione - it always takes things to unexpected places..
I'm a little confused about IPM - I thought that the bottom line was not to think of
it as a fixative..
Anyhow, I just ordered some cinnamyl cinnamate from Adam.. And some ambermax :)

I thought I'd let you know I've tried the hedione in different amounts in both things I'm trying to make, and I think (so far...) it's nothing to be too frightened of. When I opened it, I recognized it immediately from umpteen products (especially from a coworker's perfume, which must have it as a major note); it really does have a distinct scent (though, curiously, a friend who sniffed it couldn't actually smell it at all.) But when I added it, I really couldn't smell it in either mix -- except that the other elements really were immediately fattened up a bit. I think it's what's making the citrus-based mix I'm making, where I used a bit more of it, smell so juicy. We'll see, though, in a few weeks after it's all settled and blended.
 

pkiler

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 5, 2007
So, We all say: "Don't Use Glycerin in any Perfume". However I have no clue about glycerin based extracts.

I'm not quite sure how to interpret that comment, "they... are less harsh on the skin for allergic people."

Allergies come in many shapes and sizes, and using all natural ingredients is actually the opposite to me of what it seems like you are trying to do... The more the molecules, the more chance of allergic reactions. Natural have more molecules that synthetics, and there seems to have the assumption that synthetics are bad/evil, and naturals are good and sweet. This is not accurate in either case.

PK
 

Maher_AlKhouja

New member
Sep 28, 2014
Dear Mr. Chris Bartlett,
Could you please give me an advice or correct my formulas in making perfume
100 ml perfume bottle:

70% ethanol (95) {medical}
20% essential oil
5% distilled water
2% propylene glycol
2% benzyl benzoate
1% glycerin

what are the accurate percentage of benzyl benzoate and propylene glycol according the essential oil
if its better to omit glycerin ... and add any other material such as coumarin or ...

looking forward to hearing from you

Regards,
 
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Maher_AlKhouja

New member
Sep 28, 2014
where are the (stickies) pages please?
thanx alot for your kind reply

ohh ..OK just reading them
 
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Maher_AlKhouja

New member
Sep 28, 2014
Dear Chris and Mumsy,

I've read the stickies , found that using glycerin is not good
but what about other materials and their ratios to 20 ml essential oil

100 ml bottle :

70% ethanol (95) {medical} [or 75% if I don't use distilled water]
20% essential oil
5% distilled water [or not]
3% propylene glycol [what about this ratio]
2% benzyl benzoate [what about this ratio]

what are the accurate ratios of benzyl benzoate and propylene glycol ?are they according the essential oil or the final product


looking forward to hearing from you

Regards,
 

mumsy

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Jan 31, 2010
I think that there are too many variables to answer you in such a direct fashion.

I use perfumers alcohol and the perfume material only. Do you have a reason to want to use these other things? I suggest a lot of reading and typing in all your questions in the search box. There are many reasons to use other substances and you need to know why you are doing so.

Type in each ingredient to the search box and research what the reason for using it is. There is no overall standard formula as such. Not that I'm aware of anyway.
 

Bill Roberts

Basenotes Dependent
Mar 1, 2013
There aren't particular required ratios of propylene glycol: indeed propylene glycol is usually not used.

Nor is there a particular required ratio or amount of benzyl benzoate: rather, often is not used at all, and if it is used, the amount is decided specifically for a reason, or in some cases may be a consequence of its presence as a diluent of other materials, rather than from following a rule or general amount.

For some reason, not specifically meaning you, seasplash, but in general, from new posters there seems far more concern than needed for ingredients such as those, and not nearly enough on the actual aroma materials! Very much majoring on the minors or even the unnecessary.
 
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Nizan

Basenotes Dependent
Nov 15, 2013
Could be people are looking for magic formulae to make something good.
If that's what you're after, just use a lot of Hedione and Iso E :p
 

mumsy

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Jan 31, 2010
Lol... the real road to a good perfumer is called lots of study and hard work... for many years too....

It is very easy to make a smell.... It is making a really good perfume that is so elusive.

Just for all those interested in the magic wand approach...... 'pouf'...... the secret formula just vanished into thin air....!
 

flagellum

Super Member
Jun 4, 2013
Dear Chris and Mumsy,

I've read the stickies , found that using glycerin is not good
but what about other materials and their ratios to 20 ml essential oil

100 ml bottle :

70% ethanol (95) {medical} [or 75% if I don't use distilled water]
20% essential oil
5% distilled water [or not]
3% propylene glycol [what about this ratio]
2% benzyl benzoate [what about this ratio]

what are the accurate ratios of benzyl benzoate and propylene glycol ?are they according the essential oil or the final product


looking forward to hearing from you

Regards,

I remember propylene glycol being one of my first great mistakes, horrible, sticky, flattening and useless in a perfume. Why not try something not that ambitious at first and then test your limits? Why not limit the essential oils to 10% and raise the ethanol to 90% and do that in a small bottle, just to experiment? Sounds like basic, can be challenging. Forget the water, focus on the perfume, the water won't provide fixation or moisturize the skin, you are using essential oils and you are killing them, if you use water. If your experiment turns out good, then you can implement the benzyl benzoate or another fixative. With essential oils, hedione would be a good solution, as already said, essential oils can really use the lightness hedione has. At least I wish I had used it back in the day as I was using essential oils extensively. Or use 1% Glucam P-20. That would be 89% ethanol, 1 % Glucam P-20 and 10% essential oils, Glucam is also good to the skin. But that would come after the experiment. 20% aroma is heavy, I think, heavy on the nose, on the skin and on the pocket, not a very economical approach. In my humble opinion: a. simplify b. use less.
 

Maher_AlKhouja

New member
Sep 28, 2014
But I read about perfumers alchol and let's say it contains ethanol and other matirials
such as fixative (like benzyle benzoate),and co-solvent (like propylen glycol)
I read about these two materials(PG & BB) in many sites;
that they are used for what I said above.

Is it good to add only BB as fixatve ,and if so what's its good ratio to essential oil
Finally,I know that the esiest way to blend perfume is to use
Bothe good EO and alchol only
But I wase wondering about using or adding other materials to
To make the final blend better.

Thank you all for your kind reply
 
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Bill Roberts

Basenotes Dependent
Mar 1, 2013
I recommend listening to who you choose to. Answers have been given here, and other statements have been made elsewhere. There's a choice to be made as to what source to accept. Some reasons have been given here already. You can also simply try both approaches yourself (with propylene glycol and without) and see what happens.
 

mumsy

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Jan 31, 2010
The only way to learn is to do it…. try with what you have and subject all our comments to personal experimentation and see. There is no particular right or wrong way, just your own personal best way.
 

Bill Roberts

Basenotes Dependent
Mar 1, 2013
There are ways, though, that will have about 100% of people trying one's product saying it's not as good, or is not good at all. If making entirely for oneself though that may not matter.

Although, often when others point out what they experience as flaws in a formulation, it becomes a learning experience and after the learning, one may get more enjoyment from the redone material than from the old.
 

pkiler

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 5, 2007
Maher, we get a lot of people coming to us with previously "learned" knowledge. We have to beat it out of people for them to make better perfumes than whatever the heck they've learned in the past, from what we consider extremely questionable and ill-informed sources.

Do what you want. We're not going to stop you or yell at you. But if you ask a question with bad previous information, expect to get contrarian information that YOU must filter and use appropriately.

Your path of discovery is your own, not mine. Please, make as many mistakes as possible, to learn as much as possible.

PK
 

Trufflehunter

Basenotes Junkie
Sep 3, 2008
Sage advice, Paul, but why can't people understand that the ONLY solvent that should be used is ethanol? And adding water, glycerine and all sorts of other things is a complete waste of effort?
 

Maher_AlKhouja

New member
Sep 28, 2014
Thank you all for your kind advice,
I've already made some samples and let them rest about 20 days 10 in the freezer and 10 in the wardrobe
1 2 3
EO 20% 20% 20%
BB 3% 2% 1%
Glycerin 1.5% 1% 1%
PG 1% 2% 1%
water 5% 5% 5%
Ethanol 95 69.5% 70% 72%

all of these samples was good in both colour and sent as well
but sample 1 lasts the longest then 2 then 3 on paper

I'll do my best to do so and so with and without fixatives and co-solvents
I appreciate your cooperation ,nice discussion and notes

looking forward to hearing from you,
 

Maher_AlKhouja

New member
Sep 28, 2014
Thank you all for your kind advice,
I've already made some samples and let them rest about 20 days 10 in the freezer and 10 in the wardrobe
Samples ratio:
S1:
EO 20 _ BB 3 _ Glycerin 1.5 _ PG 1 _ Water 5 _ Ethanol(95) 69.5
S2:
EO 20 _ BB 2 _ Glycerin 1 _ PG 2 _ Water 5 _ Ethanol(95) 70
S3:
EO 20 _ BB 1 _ Glycerin 1 _ PG 1 _ Water 5 _ Ethanol(95) 72

all of these samples was good in both colour and sent as well
but sample 1 lasts the longest then 2 then 3 on paper

I'll do my best to do so and so with and without fixatives and co-solvents
I appreciate your cooperation ,nice discussion and notes

looking forward to hearing from you,
 
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Maher_AlKhouja

New member
Sep 28, 2014
Thank you indeed Mr. Paul

That's why am here asking experts specialists like you and the other persons at this forum ;
to get the right answers and good advice

Really appreciate that and happy to hear from you all

Regards,
Maher
 

kazalbash

Basenotes Member
Dec 12, 2013
OK.......
lets get it straight....
making a perfume is like making a car.speed and strength of car is already been made by the company.
now you are paying for a 800 cc and would like to improve you car speed like 5000 cc?
if you want to do so you have to re as amble the whole car.if you have skill to do that.DO IT.
and if you think that you are not that smart.then get some money and get another car like Ferrari.
strenght of a perfume is all about the quality of perfume oil.if perfume oil is made by an expert of mixing and blending then
you ll have strenght silage and diffusion at the same time as its not possible for a kid who still have spots :)
and if you would like to get all these things is just becose you add somthing like DPG IPM and BB then you are trying to convert you 800 cc car
into 5000 cc :) :) :)
 

Spacetransient

New member
Jan 20, 2015
Hi,

Can anyone suggest some perfume formulas that would use perfumers alcohol, glycerin, distilled water and the fragrance oils?

I want to use between 10-15% fragrance oil

Thanks so much!

I know I am new here and this is a dead thread but for those inquiring similarly and arriving here I have something important to point out-

The misconception about glycerine as a carrier for perfume comes from it's use in the fragrance oil industry- few fragrance oils, that is the $5 for 10ml variety are uncut- and generally with a vegetable oil. Everyone should also know that soap makers frequently will cut/mix their fragrance oils with glycerine before adding them into the soap base. We often then test our mixes out in the glycerin base on ourselves but we do not actually believe we are making perfume! (well, maybe some, this is the internet after all!!)

The use of alcohol for soap or wax is as bad an idea as glycerin is for the perfumer. Alcohol will have bad reactions with the mix, but not glycerin which blends well.

Hope this helps to explain the plethora of misinformed information regarding the use of fragrances and glycerin.

Next time just ask the questioner if they are making perfume or soap!!
 

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