Oakmoss Absolute & Sweet Orange Essential Oil ....what's next? Aroma Chemicals

RusticResin

New member
Apr 18, 2020
So far I have mixed oakmoss absolute and sweet orange EO. Smells great, but what else do you think I should add? I have a few aroma chemicals listed below. Can anyone suggest a formula with the items listed below?


Bergamot Givco
Cedryl Acetate (EOA)
Freskomenthe® (Givaudan)
Isobornyl acetate
Koavone® (IFF)
Linalool Oxide
Mysore Wood Blend
Timbersilk (IFF)
Gin - Key Accord
Hexenyl Cis-3 Acetate
Isobornyl acetate
Iso E Super® (IFF)
Maritima (IFF)
Myrac Aldehyde (IFF)
Polysantol® (Firmenich)
Birch Leaf Givco
Black Agar Givco
Fir Balsam Reconstitution (IFF)
Sandalwood - Key Accord
Treemoss

 

Rustin Timbersilk

Basenotes Member
Apr 18, 2020
I'm a novice and so this is an idea for something really simple you might like to try. Make a 10-15% dilution of ISO E Super or perhaps Timbersilk in your alcohol - then use this as base for dropping in just one or two of the other ingredients (in total) in really small and well diluted amounts. Bergamot + Orange or Bergamot + Sandalwood might be okay - just try things out. It's a great way to see how your ingredients work. I like making up scents for hot days like this when I just want something light and easy.
 

Devil's Son In Law

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 17, 2018
This was pretty difficult due to your materials. You don't have any florals and no musks. You mostly have woods. So linalool oxide is the only thing that is in flowers, so it has to do. Otherwise Hedione should be your first purchase. You can use pre-made flower accords until you learn to make you own (if you want to get that far into it). So here is what I came up with (material / drops or weight ratio / accord name)....

LINALOOL OXIDE (Givaudan).....10........"Floral accord" (not really, this is one floral chemical, but that's all we have. It can be boosted also.)
BERGAMOT (Givaudan) 104.......15........Citrus
Orange, Sweet - Organic EB.........5........Citrus
Hexenyl Cis-3 Acetate...................1........Citrus
TIMBERSILK (IFF).......................15.......Wood
Black Agar Givco 215/2.................5........Wood
POLYSANTOL® (Firmenich).........3........Wood
Fir Balsam.....................................2.........Wood
Oakmoss Absolute .......................2........ Wood (dilute to 10% for formula to be IFRA compliant)
Isobornyl acetate...........................1........Wood
Gin - Key Accord...........................3........Spice
Birch Leaf Givco............................1........Spice
Maritima (IFF)................................2.........Aquatic

This meets IFRA standards. The orange oil can't go much higher due to the bergapten level. I assume your Bergamot is Givco 104, which isn't restricted since its a recreation (therefore, no bergapten). Polysantol can't be any higher than this, and oakmoss also can only be 0.1% of your final fragrance. So you have to dilute the oakmoss so it will pass. Of course, for your own use, you don't have to. But oakmoss can cause skin reactions in some people so be careful. And you can't use 0.1% oakmoss and 0.1% treemoss together... they both add up towards the same 0.1% limit.

And this formula assumes a 15% dilution. If you dilute it higher (like 20%), it will fail IFRA. You can go lower, however (10% for example).

This is going to be woody. So besides florals, you don't have any musk. Galaxolide, Exaltolide, Tonalide, Ethylene Brassylate are some of the most commonly used commercially. There are many others.

And I half agree with Rustin Timbersilk. You can make a little starter base of ISO-E and alcohol, and then add materials and smell as you go. But don't add them diluted unless there is a reason. Like the oakmoss here. Or some materials that are crazy strong (aldehydes, pryazine, guiacol, etc.) Some people on here dilute things to all of these arbitrary levels, you will never learn how your materials behave. My opinion is either dilute all your materials used for experiments to 10% or 20% (I do 20%) or just work with them at 100%. And again, you can dilute some things like oakmoss and strong materials lower. But be consistent so you know how the materials behave.

Watch this video with Roja Dove making an experimental fragrance... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdFsorZe1cg
 
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Bill Roberts

Basenotes Dependent
Mar 1, 2013
Unless, as may be the case, you specifically don't want jasmine, Sampaquita is tremendously versatile in giving floral, albeit jasmine-only, to many sorts of blends. If limited to one material for floral for early experimenting I'd pick that.

(It is, of course, itself made up of many materials.)
 

pkiler

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 5, 2007
Watch this video with Roja Dove making an experimental fragrance... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdFsorZe1cg

Uh. NO.
THIS is likely the most egregious and ridiculous proofs that Dove is not a Perfumer, and is not worth paying attention to. Watching at 7:36, you'll see his so called 'scale', which does not change when he adds his drops. Scale only changes when he removes the flask. He's faking using a scale, but he's counting drops instead.
 

dutchbrit

Super Member
Mar 18, 2014
Uh. NO.
THIS is likely the most egregious and ridiculous proofs that Dove is not a Perfumer, and is not worth paying attention to. Watching at 7:36, you'll see his so called 'scale', which does not change when he adds his drops. Scale only changes when he removes the flask. He's faking using a scale, but he's counting drops instead.

I noticed also the scale is made by "Salter"... which are well known in the UK for cheap kitchen & bathroom scales.

If he's not a perfumer and does not make his own fragrances.. who makes them for him and why is he not outed as a fraud?
 

Devil's Son In Law

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 17, 2018

Uh, YES. Or I'll concede "MAYBE." You are certainly entitled to your opinion of Roja as a perfumer, but my point was that what he is doing... blending by drops and recording it and adjusting as he goes... is totally fine. Especially for an AMATEUR, as was Rustin Timbersilk's post. You are just taking away from the point being made. I have my own opinion of him also, but I think what he is doing is an interesting concept, some of the tips are good for a beginner (cypriol, Adoxal smells like ink.. it does). That is the point.
 

Devil's Son In Law

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 17, 2018
????

Sweet Orange, Citrus sinensis, does not contain bergapten so why would there be a restriction besides the level of peroxides in the oil?

I have seen studies that show no bergapten in sweet orange, but I've also seen some that have. And tests with rabbits that showed phototox also. So I set my bergapten alarm at these levels:

68916-04-1 BITTER ORANGE PEEL 0.07300%
72968-50-4 BITTER ORANGE PEEL 0.07300%
8007-75-8 BERGAMOT EO 0.33000%
89957-91-5 BERGAMOT EO 0.33000%
8008-26-2 LIME 0.33000%
90063-52-8 LIME 0.33000%
8016-20-4 GRAPEFRUIT 0.01200%
68917-32-8 GRAPEFRUIT TERPENES 0.01200%
8008-56-8 LEMON 0.03500%
84929-31-7 LEMON 0.03500%
89957-91-5 BERGAMOT (FCF) 0.00910%
93686-22-7 MANDARIN 0.00030%
8016-85-1 TANGERINE 0.00500%
8008-57-9 ORANGE, SWEET 0.07300%
8028-48-6 ORANGE, BLOOD 0.07300%
8030-28-2 ORANGE BLOSSOM 0.07300%
233683-84-6 YUZU 0.00038%
8016-38-4 NEROLI OIL 0.00020%
8014-17-3 PETITGRAIN OIL 0.00500%
8008-31-9 MANDARIN, RED 0.00030%

But I am certainly not saying I'm always right. If I'm wrong, I just want the correct info.
 
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pkiler

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 5, 2007
Second tier Perfumers at Robertet make Dove's fragrances.
My 'opinion' of Dove is not so much opinion, as it is an assessment based on facts and reality.
 

neroli1970

Super Member
Jan 28, 2020
I have seen studies that show no bergapten in sweet orange, but I've also seen some that have. And tests with rabbits that showed phototox also. So I set my bergapten alarm at these levels:


But I am certainly not saying I'm always right. If I'm wrong, I just want the correct info.

Yes but there is no IFRA restriction on Sweet Orange, Citrus sinensis, due to it containing bergapten. Yes if you had a Sweet Orange EO and the GC-MS report showed bergapten in that oil, then yes you would figure out the math for your fragrance. But I would argue that 99.9% of the Sweet Orange on the commercial market does not contain any bergapten. Again, a quality GC-MS analysis will give you a sure answer.
 

Devil's Son In Law

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 17, 2018
Yes but there is no IFRA restriction on Sweet Orange, Citrus sinensis, due to it containing bergapten. Yes if you had a Sweet Orange EO and the GC-MS report showed bergapten in that oil, then yes you would figure out the math for your fragrance. But I would argue that 99.9% of the Sweet Orange on the commercial market does not contain any bergapten. Again, a quality GC-MS analysis will give you a sure answer.

I looked at the listing where I buy mine sometimes, their analysis says "no photosensitiation... but use with caution for sensitive skin" (paraphrase). And a book I used before to get bergapten levels was referenced by this listing, also... https://books.google.com/books/about/Essential_Oil_Safety_E_Book.html?id=DbEKAQAAQBAJ

So I think you are right. I need to fix my bergapten alarm in my spreadsheet.
 

Devil's Son In Law

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 17, 2018
Second tier Perfumers at Robertet make Dove's fragrances.
My 'opinion' of Dove is not so much opinion, as it is an assessment based on facts and reality.

I do agree that he is mostly about marketing. I think Amber Aoud is good, but that's mostly it. I have the one he did for the middle eastern singer (Ahlam I think) and it was not bad, a little too sweet of a rose. Haute Luxe is definitely not worth $3,500 a bottle.
 

Saraiva

Basenotes Member
May 26, 2018
Uh. NO.
THIS is likely the most egregious and ridiculous proofs that Dove is not a Perfumer, and is not worth paying attention to. Watching at 7:36, you'll see his so called 'scale', which does not change when he adds his drops. Scale only changes when he removes the flask. He's faking using a scale, but he's counting drops instead.
Yes, it's true, that looks more like a scale to weigh fish, even my scale is better than that and I'm not even a perfumer's apprentice... ahahah :LOL::LOL::LOL::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 

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