new guerlains

GoldWineMemories

Well-known member
Nov 22, 2019
Looks like Epice Volees is Arsene Lupin Voyou, which has actually grown on me while it's gone out of production. Might have to pick that one up in the new bottle, though that price is a big door stopper. Actually, it appears it's even higher than when I converted it before. It looks like it's actually $360/$460 for a 100/200 ml here in the US. :eek:

I know Chanel is going to raise their prices for the Les Exclusifs in America soon -- in which case I'd re-evaluate how worth it some of them are to me -- but at the moment you can get Cuir de Russie, No. 22, Bois des Iles, 31 Rue Cambon, and Coromandel at $350/200ml. A $110 increase for the Guerlains, and not a single one of them is worth that much imo when I tested them. Ridiculous, I wonder how this pricing scheme will work out for these brands in the long term. After taxes you pay $500 for what? A perfume that's not even worthy to kiss Mitsouko's feet? A perfume that can't even look Jicky in the eyes? It's a joke. I an accept that price and the potential artistry behind a fragrance can be seperated, and a perfume that's "not worth it" can still be great, but these newer nichey Guerlains aren't anything beyond okay.
 

imm0rtelle

Well-known member
Apr 2, 2021
Yes, but some people will take any possible opportunity to make everything ultimately about Hedi Slimane.

I mean, as someone else already pointed out, the Louis Vuitton bottles have similarly "invisible" tubing inside them, and those were on the market for years before the Celines, so the tubing is clearly not a new innovation that can be credited to Hedi Slimane. Many people have expressed concern when seeing the Louis Vuitton bottles that they didn't appear to have sprayers because the tubing inside them is so invisible.

I guess we both have very significant differences in visual acuity. It is a blessing and a curse to be so perceptive and detail-oriented, so I envy you a bit.

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I'm not going to knock their efforts because it is obvious that they're trying to really make the tube as invisible as possible. So I think I can agree with you that Hedi wasn't the one to bring this innovation to LVMH. I have to credit it to LV fragrances for doing it. Hedi's Celine fragrances just executed this idea much better.
 

Birdboy48

Well-known member
Jul 10, 2011
The thing with the invisible tubes is something they've been doing with fishing line for years now. My sense is that the invisibility varies with the sort of light that the tubes are viewed under. Light levels are measured in Kelvin, as folks who do a lot of photography know. It's likely that the refractive index of the plastic used in the tubes is optimized for particular light levels, and that the index of the juice has something to do with it too.
 

imm0rtelle

Well-known member
Apr 2, 2021
The thing with the invisible tubes is something they've been doing with fishing line for years now. My sense is that the invisibility varies with the sort of light that the tubes are viewed under. Light levels are measured in Kelvin, as folks who do a lot of photography know. It's likely that the refractive index of the plastic used in the tubes is optimized for particular light levels, and that the index of the juice has something to do with it too.

I can see this type of thing becoming more and more normalized, and implemented for more fragrances even outside LVMH, because it just instantly makes almost every bottle more beautiful. As more and more LVMH brands choose to make their plastic tubes approach invisibility, the more jarring seeing the plastic tubing will be.

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ultravisitor

Well-known member
Nov 4, 2014
I guess we both have very significant differences in visual acuity. It is a blessing and a curse to be so perceptive and detail-oriented, so I envy you a bit.

Well, yes, it is a particularly unusual curse for someone to see the entire universe beginning and ending with Hedi Slimane.

And anyone can choose pics of the Celine or Louis Vuitton bottles to make it look like the tubing is more or less perceptible. It really doesn't take much talent to think of doing that.
 

imm0rtelle

Well-known member
Apr 2, 2021
Well, yes, it is a particularly unusual curse for someone to see the entire universe beginning and ending with Hedi Slimane.

And anyone can choose pics of the Celine or Louis Vuitton bottles to make it look like the tubing is more or less perceptible. It really doesn't take much talent to think of doing that.

You sound so bitter whenever I bring Hedi Slimane up. Hopefully you find peace one day and let go your resentment.
 

HauteParfumGourmand

Well-known member
Mar 16, 2017
The thing that really rubs me the wrong way is that the rehousing and renaming of previous perfumes into this lineup is pretty blatant. To think that five years ago a very detailed and passionate website ran by Monsieur Guerlain (which is now perpetually under maintenance) was threatened just for linking to a discussion where people pointed out that same stunt was being pulled.

I know people usually harp on about corporate shenanigans when it comes to reform discussion and price increases, but this kind of behaviour is really something else.
 

Cevenol

Well-known member
Dec 22, 2015
Not impressed by the new bottles, they look a bit generic luxe to me, something more original would have been nice for the historic maison. Not that I'll ever buy any at that price (or the old one for that matter). I assume the long generously dosed samples are gone too. The Gouttes (10 or 15 or 30 ml I can't remember) are gone too, which sucks, I bought many over the years in Paris, it was a great affordable way to enjoy the scents for some of us plebeians to enjoy the line. Bois d'Armenie, Tonka Imperial and Cuir Beluga are wonderful.
I'll pick up a bottle of Vetiver for 30 bucks at a discounter while it's still a thing I guess and have a thought for poor Monsieur Arnault and his shareholders.
Oh, I quickly smelled Santal Pao Rosa and it didn't seem nothing special to me. Jicky extrait is amazing and Kadine was really good
 

imm0rtelle

Well-known member
Apr 2, 2021

Sorry for being the bearer of bad news, perhaps the consolation that I can provide is to once again correct what I said and acknowledge that LV is the first at LVMH to try to make their tubing as invisible as possible. The fact that the LV glass bottles are smooth, cylindrical, and without much detailing just makes it much easier to notice the tubing. The Celine glass bottles, and juice colour, are just designed in a way that masks the tubing as much as possible. The execution of this at Celine is just much better than at LV.

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It is no surprise to me that Guerlain is going the Celine direction with bottle design:

 

imm0rtelle

Well-known member
Apr 2, 2021
I think it was a missed opportunity for Hedi to not make the Celine bottles to also be refillable like Guerlain and LV:


The video makes it seem like they unscrew the atomizer and refill it with liquid, but I think the truth might be different.

How LV bottles get refilled:
https://imgur.com/a/nQ9Vb2j
 

cheapimitation

Well-known member
May 15, 2015
Maybe we could have a separate thread about invisible tubes so it's easier to find the posts about Guerlain in this thread.

I came here because I just noticed on the Guerlain site a new section of lower priced EDT's called "LES MATIÈRES CONFIDENTIELLES".

Maybe it was there before and I just didn't notice, anyone try these or notice this too?

Also curious if anyone has gotten a bottle yet? I feel like it's a really hard sell for those of us who know just a few months ago these where available for $260. It feels like they are taking a big risk with this massive rebranding and re-releasing of so many fragrances all at once. I wonder if it will work, maybe after enough time passes we will adjust to the inflation and they will sell well. I also wonder if part of the refilling option is to keep a tighter grip on distribution so these don't end up on the grey market. Or, is it only a matter of time before they are all $50 on fragrancenet, haha.
 

imm0rtelle

Well-known member
Apr 2, 2021
I came here because I just noticed on the Guerlain site a new section of lower priced EDT's called "LES MATIÈRES CONFIDENTIELLES".

Maybe it was there before and I just didn't notice, anyone try these or notice this too?

Larry posted a picture of one of them here on page 1 in this thread (https://www.basenotes.net/threads/506910-new-guerlains?p=5516177&viewfull=1#post5516177). Definitely sounds like it is targeting a market that considers the original range too heavy and loud.

I visited the website and just spotted they're launching candles too. LVMH really pushing candles for this upcoming holiday.

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Again a missed opportunity for Hedi to not make the Celine candles refillable.

Although Guerlain is also going the same black glass direction that Hedi is doing, their wax is white instead of Celine's black wax.

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deltasun

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2017
Maybe we could have a separate thread about invisible tubes so it's easier to find the posts about Guerlain in this thread.

I came here because I just noticed on the Guerlain site a new section of lower priced EDT's called "LES MATIÈRES CONFIDENTIELLES".

Maybe it was there before and I just didn't notice, anyone try these or notice this too?

Also curious if anyone has gotten a bottle yet? I feel like it's a really hard sell for those of us who know just a few months ago these where available for $260. It feels like they are taking a big risk with this massive rebranding and re-releasing of so many fragrances all at once. I wonder if it will work, maybe after enough time passes we will adjust to the inflation and they will sell well. I also wonder if part of the refilling option is to keep a tighter grip on distribution so these don't end up on the grey market. Or, is it only a matter of time before they are all $50 on fragrancenet, haha.

I think the pages are new(ish), but Seb talked about them when he discussed the new bottles / discontinuation a while back. I'll have to call around to see if these are available at Neiman yet for testing.
 

freewheelingvagabond

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2012
I walked by the Guerlain counter at Saks today, they have testers and said they will be out next week!

I tried Santal Pao Rosa on skin and it is very nice. I didn't particularly get sandalwood or rose but maybe my nose was broken today. It was a nice spicy woody amber fragrance without feeling heavy.

He also gave me samples of Neroli Outrenoir and "Epice Volees" which apparently is Arsene Lupin reincarnated (I forgot which one, I think Voyou?).

After trying a few my overall impression is similar to how I always felt about Art and Materials, which is they are very nice but none of them excite me enough to want to pay a lot of money. However, I also get the impression that they are quite nuanced and the kind of thing you could totally fall in love with more exposure. They have that really smooth sense of French refinement, nothing shouty or harsh while still maintaining a depth and complexity.

I signed up to get notified about the release event next week and I"ll definitely go if I can!

Oh, and the bottles are really beautiful in person. He had the 200ml for testers and they are some hefty looking things.

It'd be awesome if Arsene Lupin Dandy is brought back. It's one of their best ones (and they have many .......).

I'd also love to see Cologne du 68 being back.
 

joov84

Well-known member
Aug 8, 2012
Santal Pao Rosa first impressions notes ( After 5 wearings):

- Dry genuine smelling sandalwood saw dust & sandalwood shavings accompanied with wafts of rose and cardamom . Sandalwood being the main note.

- Some sweetness from the rose and underlying fig note . Still coming of as a dry woody fragrance .

- hints of smokiness when smelled upclose most probably from the myrrhe. Some middle eastern white musk in the late drydown.

- Longevity is excellent. I was able to detect it the next day .. Projection seems to be on average or just above average. One of the strongest in the whole line.

- No it does not have similarities to Santal Royal . Very different . I can't think of a fragrance that smells similar .

- it ended up being on my top 3 from Guerlain L'art line along with iris torrefie and bois d'armenie.
 

Andy the frenchy

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2018
It'd be awesome if Arsene Lupin Dandy is brought back. It's one of their best ones (and they have many .......).

I'd also love to see Cologne du 68 being back.
Ohhh yes! That would be amazing... but the pyramid of Epices Volees leaves little doubt that it's the rebottling of Voyou, not Dandy...
Oh gosh... They killed that one too.... glad I could grab a large sample of Parfum du 68 just 4 months ago...
 

hednic

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2007
Santal Pao Rosa first impressions notes ( After 5 wearings):

- Dry genuine smelling sandalwood saw dust & sandalwood shavings accompanied with wafts of rose and cardamom . Sandalwood being the main note.

- Some sweetness from the rose and underlying fig note . Still coming of as a dry woody fragrance .

- hints of smokiness when smelled upclose most probably from the myrrhe. Some middle eastern white musk in the late drydown.

- Longevity is excellent. I was able to detect it the next day .. Projection seems to be on average or just above average. One of the strongest in the whole line.

- No it does not have similarities to Santal Royal . Very different . I can't think of a fragrance that smells similar .

- it ended up being on my top 3 from Guerlain L'art line along with iris torrefie and bois d'armenie.
This sounds wonderful. Need to pick this one up.
 

joov84

Well-known member
Aug 8, 2012
Santal Pao Rosa first impressions notes ( After 5 wearings):

- Dry genuine smelling sandalwood saw dust & sandalwood shavings accompanied with wafts of rose and cardamom . Sandalwood being the main note.

- Some sweetness from the rose and underlying fig note . Still coming of as a dry woody fragrance .

- hints of smokiness when smelled upclose most probably from the myrrhe. Some middle eastern white musk in the late drydown.

- Longevity is excellent. I was able to detect it the next day .. Projection seems to be on average or just above average. One of the strongest in the whole line.

- No it does not have similarities to Santal Royal . Very different . I can't think of a fragrance that smells similar .

- it ended up being on my top 3 from Guerlain L'art line along with iris torrefie and bois d'armenie.
Edit: somewhat heavy on the cardamom in the opening. some rubbery aspect due to the myrrhe.
 

GoldWineMemories

Well-known member
Nov 22, 2019
I was under the impression that the 200ml were around $400 pre tax. I go to see the website & that's closer to the 100ml price. Guerlain is out of their minds it isn't just the price itself it's that nothing in this line is spectacular IMO. Some of it is decent (Epice Volees smells like Sauvage drydown...$400?!), none of it will stand the test of time. $550 for 200ml, and I can go to Chanel and get 200ml of Coromandel, No. 22, Cuir de Russie, Bois des Iles, and 31 Rue Cambon for $350. What a joke
 

cheapimitation

Well-known member
May 15, 2015
I was under the impression that the 200ml were around $400 pre tax. I go to see the website & that's closer to the 100ml price. Guerlain is out of their minds it isn't just the price itself it's that nothing in this line is spectacular IMO. Some of it is decent (Epice Volees smells like Sauvage drydown...$400?!), none of it will stand the test of time. $550 for 200ml, and I can go to Chanel and get 200ml of Coromandel, No. 22, Cuir de Russie, Bois des Iles, and 31 Rue Cambon for $350. What a joke
I agree, I struggled to find any I like enough to buy at the old price and now there is no way I'd get one at this price. Also agree I'd rather have any Chanel Exclusive at a much lower price, but I fear it's only a matter of time before Chanel raises their prices to catch up. Still, I don't see Chanel doing another major switcheroo like the EDT to EDP price hike, so I assume/hope when they raise prices it will be a smaller increment the way most other brands do.

If Guerlain's strategy is to bring renewed interest to the line, it is certainly working in that regard. I noticed Guerlain counters at Saks and Nordstrom now have extra prominent displays of the new releases whereas before Guerlain was in a rarely trafficked lonely corner. But still I wonder how many people are actually buying them.
 

GoldWineMemories

Well-known member
Nov 22, 2019
I agree, I struggled to find any I like enough to buy at the old price and now there is no way I'd get one at this price. Also agree I'd rather have any Chanel Exclusive at a much lower price, but I fear it's only a matter of time before Chanel raises their prices to catch up. Still, I don't see Chanel doing another major switcheroo like the EDT to EDP price hike, so I assume/hope when they raise prices it will be a smaller increment the way most other brands do.

If Guerlain's strategy is to bring renewed interest to the line, it is certainly working in that regard. I noticed Guerlain counters at Saks and Nordstrom now have extra prominent displays of the new releases whereas before Guerlain was in a rarely trafficked lonely corner. But still I wonder how many people are actually buying them.
I know in some other countries that Chanel has raised their prices, and for whatever reason their strategy is to delay that price hike in America for a bit. I think I recall the bottles went up about $40-50 in Canada, so I wouldn't be surprised to see $400 as the new price point for the 200ml Les Exclusifs bottles.

Guerlain has a big new counter here too. The thing is I actively hope they fail with this new branding. If they're successful it goes to show that one of the oldest houses with real history has been degraded into this grotesque monster that only sells well because of a handsome bottle, and some flashy pictures, but the market will reward them for that.
 

mrcologneguy

Well-known member
Jan 2, 2009
Nice new bottles — but the real sport now is tracking down the discontinued rectangular bottles. They have to be out there somewhere. The old stock wasn’t just thrown away. . .
 

imm0rtelle

Well-known member
Apr 2, 2021
The thing is I actively hope they fail with this new branding. If they're successful it goes to show that one of the oldest houses with real history has been degraded into this grotesque monster that only sells well because of a handsome bottle, and some flashy pictures, but the market will reward them for that.
Unfortunately, I'm close to 100% sure that this will be a big success for them. Fancier bottles and higher price tags will generate a lot of interest. Only people already aware of the brand's previous offerings will recognize this as a blatant cash grab strategy. People who were aware, but never purchased before, aren't really their target audience in the first place. They're targeting those who already love the fragrances, and people who are new to the brand. They repackaged fragrances that didn't sell as well into this exclusive range, and upped their price, to encourage people to think more highly of them.

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Herbes Troublantes is apparently Un Dimanche a la Campagne repackaged.
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I'm a fan of Eau de Colognes, so it is too bad I missed out trying Un Dimanche à la Campagne before the staggering price increase. Knowing that 160 euros for 250 mL is already a very comfortable profit for them, I can only imagine how much money they're making now by pricing the same fragrance at 425 euros for only 200 mL.
 

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