Need some feedback for my oud based perfume

polysom

Basenotes Junkie
Apr 4, 2021
I have some very nice ouds that I love very much. So I'm currently making a perfume with oud as the main component. I want the oud to be the star of this perfume. Because this ouds are so insanely expensive I can not do so many try blends. So, I would appreciate your help and ideas to make this a nice perfume. I had the ouds and sylvamber alone and it was already stunning, but not quite a perfume yet. I then had several other blends, but the materials did overshadow the nice smell of the oud. So I removed most of the top note materials, nearly all middle note materials, lots of base note materials and reduced the remaining materials to a minimum. It smells quite nice now, but I am not sure about the cetalox and the grisalva. Do you think I should reduce them more or use just one of them? Or maybe use Ambrox Super/DL instead? Or some other advice? Thank you!

2.5 Black Pepper Essence (Indonesia)
0.2 Tetramethylpyrazine, 2,3,5,6-
0.3 Chocovan Base
4 Floralyn
0.2 Vanilla Abs.
1.52 Vetiverol Extra
0.2 Cetalox
1 Clearwood
15 Sylvamber
0.18 Ambrinol S
0.6 Vanillin
0.2 Grisalva
0.1 Lemonile
19 Oud Thai Empress E.O (3 YEAR AGED)
2 Oud Thailand E.O (PRACHIN)
7 Oud Wild Khao Yai Signature E.O.
46 Isopropyl Myristate
 

achurs

Basenotes Member
Feb 6, 2022
There are several materials in your formula I do not own or know. Further I don't know your Oud oils. I got Grisalva this week and didn't work with it yet but it seems to be a quite opaque material to me so I would be afraid to use it with such precious oils. Further Grisalva seems more powdery-woody to me than some other amber Mats. I imagine an amber as Ambrox could probably exalt the resinous part of the Oud a bit more than Grisalva and Cetalox. Many guesses, no guarantees, but my thoughts. ;)
 

mnitabach

Basenotes Dependent
Nov 13, 2020
Here is an oud-centered formula I previously posted that performs very well:

 

pkiler

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 5, 2007
I'm not sure that you need the grisalva.

Likely, what you need is some enliveners.
I would suggest some tiny dose of Ambrocenide 10%, maybe at 0.08-0.15 %
Also, maybe 1.5-3% Cypriol EO,
1-1.5% Biomuguet or other calm LOTV Lily type. Maybe combined with 0.5-1% Florol
Lastly, about 2% - 3% Bergamot.

And you can probably toss out the Floralyn, unless you want this perfume to be thick, for some reason.
 

polysom

Basenotes Junkie
Apr 4, 2021
OK, thanks for your helpful suggestions.
I don't like Ambrocenide much, but I will try the Cypriol. I had about 23& Bergamot in it, but removed it, because it interfered badly with the top notes of the oud. But I will try the 2-3%.

Here is an oud-centered formula I previously posted that performs very well:

Thanks. Very helpful.
 

ScentAle

Basenotes Junkie
Oct 26, 2021
I was thinking just now about vanilla, thinking that i would like to take some other amazing natural vanille, and I really would like to try vanilla abs, I never tried.

Maybe some olibanum eo, and cedarwood + balsams to support the oud. Not sure about pink pepper there.
Who know geosmin touch how can evolve
 

pkiler

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 5, 2007
OK, thanks for your helpful suggestions.
I don't like Ambrocenide much, but I will try the Cypriol. I had about 23& Bergamot in it, but removed it, because it interfered badly with the top notes of the oud. But I will try the 2-3%.


Thanks. Very helpful.
well, yes, I can see that 23% of Bergamot would interfere.
Don't knock my Ambrocenide percentage, until you've tried it here...
 

mnitabach

Basenotes Dependent
Nov 13, 2020
I was thinking just now about vanilla, thinking that i would like to take some other amazing natural vanille, and I really would like to try vanilla abs, I never tried.

Maybe some olibanum eo, and cedarwood + balsams to support the oud. Not sure about pink pepper there.
Who know geosmin touch how can evolve
The Amber 8300 base from Perfumer's Supply House (based supposedly on the original Delaire base) works beautifully with oud, as in the formula from my prior post on this. I'm copying the formula here into the thread. And BTW, in this formula at least, the big citrus on the top (bergamot + cedrat or yuzu) doesn't obscure the oud...

bergamot 200
cedrat heart 100 (or other interesting citrus oil)
cinnamon bark SFE (Firm) 20
lyral 20
geranium heart (Robt) 20
PEA 10
hedione 60
IES 90
dihydro ionone beta 40
clearwood 95
vertofix 95
amber "83" base (PSH) 50
habanolide 70
ethylene brassylate 30
ambrofix 10
Indicana Gologhat oud oil 25
patchouli absolute (Robt) 30
valencene 20
leather oud (Firm) 12
pyralone 1

It seems perhaps surprising that this formula is OUD all the way from top to bottom... But it is...
 

ScentAle

Basenotes Junkie
Oct 26, 2021
Anyway love idea, a real good natural oud based perfume is pure luxury. Black agar addition make the oud so much stronger, almost too much sometimes.

Anyway I will try again too, the idea to expand the amazing smell of a good oud is great, also if not easy. I want to use my Borneo Kalimantan that smell of precious fresh woods, and smoky, a bit leathery and with the strong best possible old libraries odor, that I really love. Thinking to some great vanille that I haven't.
 

mnitabach

Basenotes Dependent
Nov 13, 2020
Anyway love idea, a real good natural oud based perfume is pure luxury. Black agar addition make the oud so much stronger, almost too much sometimes.

Anyway I will try again too, the idea to expand the amazing smell of a good oud is great, also if not easy. I want to use my Borneo Kalimantan that smell of precious fresh woods, and smoky, a bit leathery and with the strong best possible old libraries odor, that I really love. Thinking to some great vanille that I haven't.
The Amber 8300 base is a classical amber with ample vanillic facet.
 

ScentAle

Basenotes Junkie
Oct 26, 2021
The Amber 8300 base is a classical amber with ample vanillic facet.
Thanks Mike! Seems perfect for that, would like to try, but for small orders we from Europe always have "problems" for usually enormous shipping and tax costs. Sadly

What about vanille abs? A part that crazy cost, that deep aromatic profile from descriptions, tenting me.

This is off topic, but often I would like to to have more grams of these beauty that nature offer us, not only some grams to use with parsimony eheh
I want 50 g of everyone high quality various jasmine, lotus, rum, vanille, tuberose, oud, rose, magnolia, orris, gardenia, neroli and all the garden 😄
 

mnitabach

Basenotes Dependent
Nov 13, 2020
Thanks Mike! Seems perfect for that, would like to try, but for small orders we from Europe always have "problems" for usually enormous shipping and tax costs. Sadly

What about vanille abs? A part that crazy cost, that deep aromatic profile from descriptions, tenting me.

This is off topic, but often I would like to to have more grams of these beauty that nature offer us, not only some grams to use with parsimony eheh
I want 50 g of everyone high quality various jasmine, lotus, rum, vanille, tuberose, oud, rose, magnolia, orris, gardenia, neroli and all the garden 😄
PCW sells a base called "Ambre 83" that is intended as a version of Delaire Amber 8300. It's not as good as the one sold by PSH, IMO, but it is quite good...
 

ScentAle

Basenotes Junkie
Oct 26, 2021
I don't know if can be useful, but in some past learning trials i found interesting connections from oud, licorice and ginger. Anise/licorice materials with fresh spices and oud is inusual and interesting. I used then sclareolate, herboxane, herbalime, lime, prismantol, coranol, anisaldehyde, hex cis 3 hint.

PS: I noticed that forum section "Perfumery Ingredients" is dead. It was very useful, but it is completely stopped. Could be very useful if anyone of the forum users has opportunity to add new materials to that "database", with detailed descriptions and impressions, like already did for many ingredients. But now it seems dead...
 

polysom

Basenotes Junkie
Apr 4, 2021
The Amber 8300 base from Perfumer's Supply House (based supposedly on the original Delaire base) works beautifully with oud, as in the formula from my prior post on this. I'm copying the formula here into the thread. And BTW, in this formula at least, the big citrus on the top (bergamot + cedrat or yuzu) doesn't obscure the oud...

bergamot 200
cedrat heart 100 (or other interesting citrus oil)
cinnamon bark SFE (Firm) 20
lyral 20
geranium heart (Robt) 20
PEA 10
hedione 60
IES 90
dihydro ionone beta 40
clearwood 95
vertofix 95
amber "83" base (PSH) 50
habanolide 70
ethylene brassylate 30
ambrofix 10
Indicana Gologhat oud oil 25
patchouli absolute (Robt) 30
valencene 20
leather oud (Firm) 12
pyralone 1

It seems perhaps surprising that this formula is OUD all the way from top to bottom... But it is...
I like the pyralone in your formula. I've ordered some to try this out. The leather oud also sounds interesting. But nobody in europe sells it and I would have the worry that it interferes too much with my natural oud.

What about vanille abs? A part that crazy cost, that deep aromatic profile from descriptions, tenting me.
I use the one from De Hekserij, which is quite nice.

PCW sells a base called "Ambre 83" that is intended as a version of Delaire Amber 8300. It's not as good as the one sold by PSH, IMO, but it is quite good...
I have Ambre 83 SMP N from Symrise, which is also nice, but too musky for my taste. I have mine from liaison-carbone, but perfumiarz sells it as well.


I don't know if can be useful, but in some past learning trials i found interesting connections from oud, licorice and ginger. Anise/licorice materials with fresh spices and oud is inusual and interesting. I used then sclareolate, herboxane, herbalime, lime, prismantol, coranol, anisaldehyde, hex cis 3 hint.
Yes, I also like the combination of anise with oud. I had one try blend with star anise oil and one with anethole. I've also tried cinnamalva, canthoxal, veraspice, methyl dianthilis, Jasmin Sambac, and tabanone with oud. It was all nice. But for my taste it altered the original smell of my oud too much. I also love the combination of oud and osmanthus abs. But its very tricky to find the best ratio, so the osmanthus does not overpower the oud so much. Because I don't have so much oud, I decided to stop the osmanthus/oud blends and focus more on the oud alone.
 

ScentAle

Basenotes Junkie
Oct 26, 2021
I like the pyralone in your formula. I've ordered some to try this out. The leather oud also sounds interesting. But nobody in europe sells it and I would have the worry that it interferes too much with my natural oud.


I use the one from De Hekserij, which is quite nice.


I have Ambre 83 SMP N from Symrise, which is also nice, but too musky for my taste. I have mine from liaison-carbone, but perfumiarz sells it as well.



Yes, I also like the combination of anise with oud. I had one try blend with star anise oil and one with anethole. I've also tried cinnamalva, canthoxal, veraspice, methyl dianthilis, Jasmin Sambac, and tabanone with oud. It was all nice. But for my taste it altered the original smell of my oud too much. I also love the combination of oud and osmanthus abs. But its very tricky to find the best ratio, so the osmanthus does not overpower the oud so much. Because I don't have so much oud, I decided to stop the osmanthus/oud blends and focus more on the oud alone.
I Really didn't see de hek sell vanille abs. I'll give a try there.
Yes the "problem" of the most beautifoul natural of the world is that are already very complex and perfect, and need so much trials for find best use for exalts them in a perfume.
Yesterday night after reading post, I tried 1 new sample with my oud kalimantan (my favourite) approaching a bit differently, working for maximum exaltation of the woody pencil/old books smell, that is the heart part of that. I'll see next week how will be.

Anethole is in my wish list, is it very different from anisaldehyde?
 

polysom

Basenotes Junkie
Apr 4, 2021
And you can probably toss out the Floralyn, unless you want this perfume to be thick, for some reason.

No, I don't want it thick. I had it in, because on the old PellWall page it said:
"In more recent times Hercolyn has become popular in Oud fragrances and recreations and in the heavier masculine woody-amber types and in leather fragrances, as well as being a useful solvent for non-alcoholic fragrances popular in Arab markets where its high viscosity is an asset."
 

polysom

Basenotes Junkie
Apr 4, 2021
I See. So its only used for its viscosity, nothing else? It has a very faint balsamic smell to me?
 

polysom

Basenotes Junkie
Apr 4, 2021
So, thanks to your tips, I've now changed the formula to something really nice. I did some changes:
- I removed the Grisalva and added Cetalox instead
- I added 1.6 Cypriol Coeur
- I added 0.3 beta-Ionone
- I added 0.35 Osmanthus Absolute
- I reduced the concentration of some ouds and enhanced the other a bit.
Now the result is really beautiful, maybe the best thing I made so far.

I've also tried to add LOTV materials. I don't have Biomuguet, so I've tested some others (Dimethyl Phenyl Ethyl Carbinol, Hydroxycitronellal, Lilial, Lyral). This changed the perfume in a completely different direction. So, at first I didn't like it. It also made it a bit feminine. But after wearing it for some hours, I've fallen quite in love with the interplay of oud, vetiver and LOTV. So I decided to make two perfumes, one with and one without the LOTV material. I liked the Hydroxycitronellal and Lyral most of the materials I've tested. So I was thinking to use both in combination, maybe 1.0 lyral and 0.8 hydroxycitronellal. I'm getting the itch to add some muguissimo too, but not because I think it would fit well, just because I have it new and would like to blend with it a bit. But maybe I should leave it alone before that ruins everything.
 

a4la

Basenotes Member
May 6, 2017
So, thanks to your tips, I've now changed the formula to something really nice. I did some changes:
- I removed the Grisalva and added Cetalox instead
- I added 1.6 Cypriol Coeur
- I added 0.3 beta-Ionone
- I added 0.35 Osmanthus Absolute
- I reduced the concentration of some ouds and enhanced the other a bit.
Now the result is really beautiful, maybe the best thing I made so far.

I've also tried to add LOTV materials. I don't have Biomuguet, so I've tested some others (Dimethyl Phenyl Ethyl Carbinol, Hydroxycitronellal, Lilial, Lyral). This changed the perfume in a completely different direction. So, at first I didn't like it. It also made it a bit feminine. But after wearing it for some hours, I've fallen quite in love with the interplay of oud, vetiver and LOTV. So I decided to make two perfumes, one with and one without the LOTV material. I liked the Hydroxycitronellal and Lyral most of the materials I've tested. So I was thinking to use both in combination, maybe 1.0 lyral and 0.8 hydroxycitronellal. I'm getting the itch to add some muguissimo too, but not because I think it would fit well, just because I have it new and would like to blend with it a bit. But maybe I should leave it alone before that ruins everything.
I am not very good with acronyms. Please explain what is LOTV material?
 

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