Musks to buy

[Emanuel76]

Where can I buy many many synthetic musks in small quantities?

Thank you!

 

[Casper_grassy]

Where are you located?

May God bless your bank account, but I would say buy all of them (aside from the same ones with different brand names, though they can be slightly different, eg: Macrolide/Exaltolide).

 

[Emanuel76]

Hehehe! On perfumersapprentice I found everything I was interested in, except:
Romanone
Musc Lactone
Nirvanolide
Tonalide

Which is great, it already exceeded my expectations.
I expected to endlessly search for them.

Any other well stocked online stores?

 

[Emanuel76]

Where are you located?

May God bless your bank account, but I would say buy all of them (aside from the same ones with different brand names, though they can be slightly different, eg: Macrolide/Exaltolide).

Europe/Romania

They really aren't expensive. I was surprised by that.
Muscone and Muscenone are the exceptions.

 

[Emanuel76]

My list:

Ambrettolide
Shangralide
Musk Ketone
Tonquitone
Exaltolide
Romandolide
Ethylene Brassylate
Silvanone Supra
Romanone
Aurelione
Helvetolide
l-Muscone
Muscenone
Exaltone
Traseolide
Musc Lactone
Cosmone
Ambrettex XNM
Nirvanolide
Cashmeran
Tonalide
Velvione
Galaxolide
Celestolide
Traseolide

Any other musks recommendations?

 

[RomanB]

My list:

Ambrettolide
Shangralide
Musk Ketone
Tonquitone
Exaltolide
Romandolide
Ethylene Brassylate
Silvanone Supra
Romanone
Aurelione
Helvetolide
l-Muscone
Muscenone
Exaltone
Traseolide
Musc Lactone
Cosmone
Ambrettex XNM
Nirvanolide
Cashmeran
Tonalide
Velvione
Galaxolide
Celestolide
Traseolide

Any other musks recommendations?

Civettone and Musk ambrette.

 

[pkiler]

Hehehe! On perfumersapprentice I found everything I was interested in, except:
Romanone
Musc Lactone
Nirvanolide
Tonalide

Which is great, it already exceeded my expectations.
I expected to endlessly search for them.

Any other well stocked online stores?

https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/p-6231-fixolide.aspx. this is tonalide

https://perfumersupplyhouse.com/product/musk-r1-11-oxa-hexadecanolide/ this is musk lactone

Nirvanolide is captive.

 

[Culpa Ire]

Habanolide and Edenolide or/and Appleide.

You also have Traseolide twice so don't make that mistake when chucking stuff in a basket! ; )

Ed : Also, Romanone and Exaltone are practically the same thing. Good to have both to compare, I suppose.

 

[Emanuel76]

Civettone

Does it make sense to buy civetone, if I want to buy natural civet?

Musk ambrette.

Musk ambrette, the natural one? Or is there an AC with that name? I couldn't find it on a quick search.

=====

Alphabetically ordered:

Ambrettex XNM
Ambrettolide
Aurelione
Cashmeran
Celestolide
Cosmone
Edenolide
Ethylene Brassylate
Exaltolide
Exaltone
Fixolide
Galaxolide
Habanolide
Helvetolide
Hexadecanolide
Musc Lactone
Muscenone
Muscone
Musk Ketone
Nirvanolide
Romandolide
Romanone
Shangralide
Silvanone Supra
Tonalide
Tonquitone
Traseolide
Velvione

 

[RomanB]

Does it make sense to buy civetone, if I want to buy natural civet?


Musk ambrette, the natural one? Or is there an AC with that name? I couldn't find it on a quick search.

=====

Ambrettolide
Shangralide
Musk Ketone
Tonquitone
Exaltolide
Romandolide
Ethylene Brassylate
Silvanone Supra
Romanone
Aurelione
Helvetolide
l-Muscone
Muscenone
Exaltone
Traseolide
Musc Lactone
Cosmone
Ambrettex XNM
Nirvanolide
Cashmeran
Tonalide
Velvione
Galaxolide
Celestolide
Fixolide
Hexadecanolide
Habanolide
Edenolide

Musk ambrette has CAS 83-66-9, looks like very large yellowish crystals, a classic ingredient which was used extensively in the past century. Many of those newer musks were created to imitate it in newer formulas.
Civettone in its pure state is a very delicate and fine musk smelling of luxurious fur coat. In complete civet it is always overwhelmed by other ingredients.

 

[Culpa Ire]

Just so you have to write out your list again - Zenolide.

 

[Emanuel76]

Musk ambrette has CAS 83-66-9, looks like very large yellowish crystals, a classic ingredient which was used extensively in the past century. Many of those newer musks were created to imitate it in newer formulas.

It's not on perfumersapprentice.
In fact I only found it in China, at 25 liters.

Civettone in its pure state is a very delicate and fine musk smelling of luxurious fur coat. In complete civet it is always overwhelmed by other ingredients.

So, the Civettone is stronger?

77$ for 4ml. Same price as 5gr of pure natural civet.

Just so you have to write out your list again - Zenolide.

Out of stock until March 14, 2023.

If I wait, maybe some of the ones I want won't be in stock until then.

Anyway, something to keep in mind.

=====

What a musky day!

 

[RomanB]

It's not on perfumersapprentice.
In fact I only found it in China, at 25 liters.



So, the Civettone is stronger?

77$ for 4ml. Same price as 5gr of pure natural civet.



If I wait, maybe some of the ones I want won't be in stock until then.

Anyway, something to keep in mind.

=====

What a musky day!

If you are in EU, search here by CAS number "83-66-9". It is really cheap, so a kilogram of it will cost you like 30-40$.

Natural civet consists of 2.5-3.5% of civettone. A synthetic ingredient is very nice and clear, with no sweetness or fecal notes. On the other side it is just a macrocyclic musk, and you can use Exaltolide with almost the same effect, for a tiny fraction of cost.

 

[Emanuel76]

A synthetic ingredient is very nice and clear, with no sweetness or fecal notes.

Well, I want especially those fecal notes.

=====

Thank you, guys!

 

[RomanB]

Well, I want especially those fecal notes.

=====

Thank you, guys!

They are not intrinsic for the civettone. Same story with muscone: natural cabarga deer musk is urionous and steroid in odour. But its ingredient muscone taken separately is perhaps the most magnificent musk you can find.

 

[ScentAle]

I have not idea why civettone cost that so much, i find nice but that crazy cost for a musk no sense

 

[RomanB]

I have not idea why civettone cost that so much, i find nice but that crazy cost for a musk no sense

There are much more affordable options to buy it. Technologies differ. Exaltolide made by an old technology costs 470$/kg, but when made by a new technology - just 57$/kg, from the very same manufacturer.

 

[jfrater]

Musk ambrette has no relation to ambrettolide or the more common iso-ambrettolide (this is sold as ambrettolide and most people use it thinking it is ambrettolide).

Musk ambrette is a powder and is a classic nitro musk - it was 13% of the formula for the original Brut. It is banned virtually everywhere except India. PerfumerSupplyHouse has musk ambrette - a lovely clean version. https://perfumersupplyhouse.com/product/musk-ambrette/

Ambrettolide Vrai (natural) is at PerfumersApprentice and iso-ambrettolide (sold also as "ambrettolide" on PerfumersApprentice) is also there.

 

[pkiler]

If you are in EU, search here by CAS number "83-66-9". It is really cheap, so a kilogram of it will cost you like $30-40

Are you saying that you can buy Civettone musk for $40/kg?

 

[Alex F.]

Are you saying that you can buy Civettone musk for $40/kg?

According to the Alibaba-link he provided, you can buy generic civetone from China for $65/kg + $250.49 shipping cost. Reputabilty and quality: 🤷‍♂️.

 

[ourmess]

There are much more affordable options to buy it. Technologies differ. Exaltolide made by an old technology costs 470$/kg, but when made by a new technology - just 57$/kg, from the very same manufacturer.

Exaltolide vs exaltolide total is not "old vs new". Exaltolide is highly purified, while exaltolide total is less pure. That's what all the "Total" versions are - think "just this one molecule" vs "more of the 'total' result of the manufacturing process".

Off the top of my head I want to say we're talking something like 99%+ pure vs 90%-ish pure?

 

[jsweet]

Exaltolide vs exaltolide total is not "old vs new". Exaltolide is highly purified, while exaltolide total is less pure. That's what all the "Total" versions are - think "just this one molecule" vs "more of the 'total' result of the manufacturing process".

Off the top of my head I want to say we're talking something like 99%+ pure vs 90%-ish pure?

Yeah I find these two very different from each other.

 

[jfrater]

There are much more affordable options to buy it. Technologies differ. Exaltolide made by an old technology costs 470$/kg, but when made by a new technology - just 57$/kg, from the very same manufacturer.

That same supplier has this:

Wholesale Bulk Price Indian Sandalwood Essential Oil 100% Natural Organic Pure Sandalwood Oil - Buy Sandalwood Oil,Sandalwood Essential Oil,Pure Sandalwood Oil Product on Alibaba.com

Wholesale Bulk Price Indian Sandalwood Essential Oil 100% Natural Organic Pure Sandalwood Oil - Buy Sandalwood Oil,Sandalwood Essential Oil,Pure Sandalwood Oil Product on Alibaba.com

www.alibaba.com

Pure indian sandalwood oil at $200 per kg - and in the video she is shaking a vial of brown watery liquid. That's a nope from me!

You have to be so careful - I had two major well known suppliers recently offer me civet and sandalwood - in both cases they were "pure and natural" and in both cases, after I probed due to costs that were too good to be true I was told "oh, it's actually a sandalwood/civet base". These are reputable companies whose name you all know (not like PA or PSH but actually suppliers to trade in bulk). You must always check and double check.

 

[ourmess]

I feel like "if you buy cheap junk from Alibaba, it will turn out to be cheap junk" should pretty much be a base assumption.

 

[pkiler]

That same supplier has this:

Wholesale Bulk Price Indian Sandalwood Essential Oil 100% Natural Organic Pure Sandalwood Oil - Buy Sandalwood Oil,Sandalwood Essential Oil,Pure Sandalwood Oil Product on Alibaba.com

Wholesale Bulk Price Indian Sandalwood Essential Oil 100% Natural Organic Pure Sandalwood Oil - Buy Sandalwood Oil,Sandalwood Essential Oil,Pure Sandalwood Oil Product on Alibaba.com

www.alibaba.com

OR BLUE lOTUS OIL AT $85/KG

Wholesale Bulk Price Blue Lotus Flower Extract Absolute Oil Oem 100% Pure Natural Organic Blue Lotus Essential Oil - Buy Lotus Oil,Blue Lotus Oil,Blue Lotus Absolute Oil Product on Alibaba.com

Wholesale Bulk Price Blue Lotus Flower Extract Absolute Oil Oem 100% Pure Natural Organic Blue Lotus Essential Oil - Buy Lotus Oil,Blue Lotus Oil,Blue Lotus Absolute Oil Product on Alibaba.com

www.alibaba.com

 

[Alex F.]

I feel like "if you buy cheap junk from Alibaba, it will turn out to be cheap junk" should pretty much be a base assumption.

Yup. $315.49 may be temptingly cheap for a kg of civetone, but for a kg of hazardous waste it's very expensive.

 

[Emanuel76]

I'm adding a few more musks:

Animalid
Isomuscone
Musk R1
Oukumal


On the Animalid, Dimethyl Benzyl Carbinyl Butyrate, Iso E Super and Ethyl Methyl-2-Butyrate page there's a warning (hover):

Environmental Transportation Hazard That May Limit International Shipping - USPS Allowed

Do you know what that means?
Can't it be sent outside the US? Or it depend on a case-by-case basis?

 

[jfrater]

Can't it be sent outside the US?

It's usually not a big deal - UN 3082 probably which is a class 9 DG (miscellanous). These are aroma materials that most couriers will carry without any DG rules being triggered. They are the products on Perfumers Apprentice that show a truck icon with a single exalamation mark. They ship those internationally. But if you get a class 3 DG (Flammable liquid - alcohol for example) they won't ship them internationally. They have a truck with two stars on it at PA. They will only do ground shipping on those.

Many of my bases are 3082 and DHL ships them everywhere in the world with no issues - I just mark the pakages as "Synthetic Aroma materials, UN3082 Environmentally Hazardous Substance, not restricted". I don't even need to put class 9 stickers - just the address label like any other parcel. If you put benzyl acetate in anything, it becomes UN 3082. It covers a HUGE amount of chemicals - things that pollute if you dump them in a waterway.

 

[Emanuel76]

Thank you for the informations!

They are the products on Perfumers Apprentice that show a truck icon with a single exalamation mark. They ship those internationally. But if you get a class 3 DG (Flammable liquid - alcohol for example) they won't ship them internationally. They have a truck with two stars on it at PA. They will only do ground shipping on those.

It's strange that that sign (a truck with two stars/explosions) appears on Indole 1% in ethanol (for the obvious reason - ethanol), but also appears on Indole (Pure) Crystals.
What's so special about indole crystals?

 

[Emanuel76]

Yeah, the indole seems to be troublemaker.

From OSHA safety data sheet:
- Flammable liquid and vapour. -------> Well, its solid, not liquid.

- Causes severe skin burns and eye damage.

- May cause respiratory irritation. May cause drowsiness or
dizziness.

- Corrosive



In fact it's really not a problem. I will buy indole from Hermitageoils, already diluted, so that I don't have problems at home. I have to buy something from them anyway.

 

[Emanuel76]

I found a few more musks:

Aldambre
Ambrettolide (Natural)
Pentalide (Macrolide Supra)

=====

So:

Aldambre
Ambrettex XNM
Ambrettolide
Ambrettolide (Natural)
Animalid
Aurelione
Cashmeran
Celestolide
Cosmone
Edenolide
Ethylene Brassylate
Exaltolide
Exaltone
Fixolide
Galaxolide
Habanolide
Helvetolide
Hexadecanolide
Isomuscone
Musc Lactone
Muscenone
Muscone
Musk R1
Musk Ketone
Nirvanolide
Oukumal
Pentalide (Macrolide Supra)
Romandolide
Romanone
Shangralide
Silvanone Supra
Tonalide
Tonquitone
Traseolide
Velvione

 

[jfrater]

Yeah, the indole seems to be troublemaker.

From OSHA safety data sheet:
- Flammable liquid and vapour. -------> Well, its solid, not liquid.

- Causes severe skin burns and eye damage.

- May cause respiratory irritation. May cause drowsiness or
dizziness.

- Corrosive



In fact it's really not a problem. I will buy indole from Hermitageoils, already diluted, so that I don't have problems at home. I have to buy something from them anyway.

The key is the UN number and class under the transportion section of an SDS. Indole is UN 2811 Toxic Solids Organc NOS (class 6.1 - substances liable to cause death if inhaled or swallowed.) The only DG class that PA (and most companies without an IATA DG license) will ship is class 9 (Miscellanous - this includes things like phones with lithium batteries built in) and in the case of perfume chems that it usually UN 3082 Environmentaly hazardous liquids. Perfume itself is UN 1266 Perfumery Products with ethanol (Class 3 Flammable Liquids) so you now find a lot of places won't ship perfumes.

Some perfumery products (some of my bases for examples and some aromachems) are not classified with a UN number because they contain nothing dangerous. They ship normally and have no truck symbol on PA. Dangerous goods (Class 6) have the single exclamation mark, and other DG classes (6 and 3 for example) have the two ** and will only ground ship.

If PA got an IATA DG license they could ship all those things via someone like DHL - you just pay a small surcharge (for me it is around $20 per shipment) for the class 6 or 3. There's no surcharge for UN3082 class 9 (though some products in class 9 - unrelated to perfume - do incurr a surcharge). There is a huge book that lists virtually every material known to man with its shipping class, UN code, and rules for packing depending on the total quantity being shipped.

 

[jfrater]

I found a few more musks:

Aldambre
Ambrettolide (Natural)
Pentalide (Macrolide Supra)

=====

So:

Aldambre
Ambrettex XNM
Ambrettolide
Ambrettolide (Natural)
Animalid
Aurelione
Cashmeran
Celestolide
Cosmone
Edenolide
Ethylene Brassylate
Exaltolide
Exaltone
Fixolide
Galaxolide
Habanolide
Helvetolide
Hexadecanolide
Isomuscone
Musc Lactone
Muscenone
Muscone
Musk R1
Musk Ketone
Nirvanolide
Oukumal
Pentalide (Macrolide Supra)
Romandolide
Romanone
Shangralide
Silvanone Supra
Tonalide
Tonquitone
Traseolide
Velvione

By the way, get Ambretone instead of Velvione. Ambretone (Takagasco) is the original and superior product. Givaudan's version (the more well known velvione) is not as good.

And don't neglect globanone - a beautiful musk that was recently in short supply but is returning to the market right now. It has synergy with habanolide and iso muscone and is really a wonderful musk at a good price - it's very similar to Ambretone/Velvione but slightly less animal and significantly less expensive. But WARNING: Don't get Globanone R (the R stands for replacer I think) - it is actually a blend of ethylene brassylate with a bunch of other musks (including isomuscone) to try to mimic the properties of Globanone during the supply shortage. You want globanone Pure or globanone 100 and it is solid at room temperature.

Edited to say: promoting my own product but you should get my Fraterworks Fixomusk - it's a restoration of the classic version of Fixomusc used in hundreds of perfumes from the early 20th century right up to now - Firmenich still produces a version but they have stripped it of all its naturals and the vital musk ketone element. My version is the original and is IFRA compliant to 12% of your finished produt or around 8% for EU regulatory compliance. It's amazing and intensely animalic.

 

[Emanuel76]

By the way, get Ambretone instead of Velvione. Ambretone (Takagasco) is the original and superior product. Givaudan's version (the more well known velvione) is not as good.

And don't neglect globanone - a beautiful musk that was recently in short supply but is returning to the market right now. It has synergy with habanolide and iso muscone and is really a wonderful musk at a good price - it's very similar to Ambretone/Velvione but slightly less animal and significantly less expensive. But WARNING: Don't get Globanone R (the R stands for replacer I think) - it is actually a blend of ethylene brassylate with a bunch of other musks (including isomuscone) to try to mimic the properties of Globanone during the supply shortage. You want globanone Pure or globanone 100 and it is solid at room temperature.

PA doesn't have Ambretone (Takasago). But I'll keep that in mind.
Globanone Pure is out of stock. Only Globanone R.

I read your post, but I forgot to delete them from the list.

=====

I finally placed the order. My head is spinning.
I didn't buy Exaltone, it was too expensive for their reviews (Basenotes) that I didn't like that much.

=====

For about 6 months - or maybe even longer than that - I'll study musks and their effect.
I can barely wait.

Edited to say: promoting my own product but you should get my Fraterworks Fixomusk - it's a restoration of the classic version of Fixomusc used in hundreds of perfumes from the early 20th century right up to now - Firmenich still produces a version but they have stripped it of all its naturals and the vital musk ketone element. My version is the original and is IFRA compliant to 12% of your finished produt or around 8% for EU regulatory compliance. It's amazing and intensely animalic.

I will. It sounds very good.
I have to check what you have on your site.

 

[jfrater]

PA doesn't have Ambretone (Takasago). But I'll keep that in mind.
Globanone Pure is out of stock. Only Globanone R.

I read your post, but I forgot to delete them from the list.

=====

I finally placed the order. My head is spinning.
I didn't buy Exaltone, it was too expensive for their reviews (Basenotes) that I didn't like that much.

=====

For about 6 months - or maybe even longer than that - I'll study musks and their effect.
I can barely wait.


I will. It sounds very good.
I have to check what you have on your site.

PA should be getting stock of Globanone pure this month I believe.

And one day you should get exaltone - it is a wonderful musk albeit insanely costly. A tiny bit can give a great boost to exaltolide.

 

[Emanuel76]

PA should be getting stock of Globanone pure this month I believe.

87$ the shipping... Not very soon.

And one day you should get exaltone - it is a wonderful musk albeit insanely costly. A tiny bit can give a great boost to exaltolide.

I didn't like the "clean" epithet when it was mentioned.

 

[Culpa Ire]

I know you’ve probably already placed your order, but for reference, if you had to choose, Exaltone from Firmenich is the best version of the musk with CAS 502-72-7. Romanone is alright, but the Firmenich product, to me, has the edge.

 

[Emanuel76]

I know you’ve probably already placed your order, but for reference, if you had to choose, Exaltone from Firmenich is the best version of the musk with CAS 502-72-7. Romanone is alright, but the Firmenich product, to me, has the edge.

It's too expensive for a "clean" musk.

Accidentally I ordered Iso Muscenone twice, instead of Muscone.
It could not simply be replaced. I should have canceled the entire order and done it again. I let it slide.

 

[Casper_grassy]

It's too expensive for a "clean" musk.

It’s worth every penny.

 

[Culpa Ire]

Indeed. It's probably my favourite musk. I wouldn't say it was a clean musk either; it has more than enough animalic qualities. Sexy as hell, too.

As for having extra amounts of muscenone, that's no problem as it's a fantastic musk. Again, something I use very often.