Musk accord - need some help

[ed_perfume]

Hello,

I'm struggling to create a musk accord. First, it isn't clear to me the odor that this accord should have.

There are the white musk, that is animalic, that is emulated by polycyclic/macrocyclic musk compounds, and it is fresh and clean, but probably sweet, ambery, woody.
Then there are the the plant-botanic one, like the oakmoss.

Which of these should be in the musk accord?

I bet the 1st one. So I tried some formula, but I've not some materials, like the Velvione or the Exaltolide, that are used in dozen of sample formula I've found.

So I do some tests, but I'm not sure about the results.

I've tried something like:

Galaxolide - 30 %
Benzyl salicylate - 15 %
Ethylene brassylate - 15 %
Hydroxicitronellal - 10 %
Alpha-Isomethyl Ionone 10 %
Ambrettolide - 10 %
Amboxan - 5 %
Rosewood essential oil (that is Linalool, A-Terpineol and Geraniol) - 5 %

How can I make a robust accord with these ingredients? I also have ethyl vanillin, cashmeran, macrolide supra, civette, ...

But I don't have Velvione and Exaltolide. How can replace them?

Thanks

 

[RomanB]

Try musk ketone.

 

[ed_perfume]

Try musk ketone.

I don't have it. I already ordered a lot of materials, delivery in Italy are very long and expensive.
Some idea with the materials I already have?

 

[ed_perfume]

I tried to use more musks and create something more deep, animalic and sweet. I like the results much more:

Galaxolide 350
Ethylene brassylate 350
Macrolide Supra 80
Ambrettolide 20
Iso E Super 125
Cashmeran 10
Ethyl Vanilline 15
Alpha-Isomethyl Ionone 25
Benzyl salicylate 25

Do you ave any suggestion to make it better with these ingredients? Or I should buy Musk Ketone, Velvione, Exaltolide, etc?
Any opinion to use Vertofix in a musk accord?

 

[Darren Alan]

What are you using this musk accord for? What other materials are you including in your composition? And what effect are you desiring the musk accord to have on your composition as a whole? There is no one best musk accord. It depends on what you are wanting to do with it. I vary the musks I use in every composition based on what role I am wanting the musk to play & what aspects of the other materials I want my musks to support or bring out.

 

[ed_perfume]

What are you using this musk accord for? What other materials are you including in your composition? And what effect are you desiring the musk accord to have on your composition as a whole? There is no one best musk accord. It depends on what you are wanting to do with it. I vary the musks I use in every composition based on what role I am wanting the musk to play & what aspects of the other materials I want my musks to support or bring out.

To be honest, as I never smell this "musk accord", in the last order I ask for a tester, so I can have an idea of what we are talking about. I also have a white musk fragrance. But the most difficult part for me is that I've not a clear idea of what this musk smells.
If I think of citrus, I know well all of them. If I think of a rose, a violet, or a bouquet, I've experienced it. But musks... are something mysterious to me. Also, I read that in perfumery a musk accord is something synthetic, so I'm so confused.

And when you say that you vary the musk accord and you use a specific one for a composition, I thought that some accord were more versatile, so that they can be use in various contests.

So first, I ask you to tell me what I need to do to understand the musk accord.

Second, to reply to your question, I want to do a Christmas perfume.

Base note: musk accord and chimney accord (cade, betula alba, lapsang souchong tincture i made)
Mid note: sugar/caramel accord, cinnamon, shots pine
Top note: orange, black pepper, bergamot

This is the whole idea, but it still needs work...

Do you have any tips on the musk accord, for this specific perfume? Thanks

 

[Darren Alan]

To be honest, as I never smell this "musk accord", in the last order I ask for a tester, so I can have an idea of what we are talking about. I also have a white musk fragrance. But the most difficult part for me is that I've not a clear idea of what this musk smells.
If I think of citrus, I know well all of them. If I think of a rose, a violet, or a bouquet, I've experienced it. But musks... are something mysterious to me. Also, I read that in perfumery a musk accord is something synthetic, so I'm so confused.

And when you say that you vary the musk accord and you use a specific one for a composition, I thought that some accord were more versatile, so that they can be use in various contests.

So first, I ask you to tell me what I need to do to understand the musk accord.

Second, to reply to your question, I want to do a Christmas perfume.

Base note: musk accord and chimney accord (cade, betula alba, lapsang souchong tincture i made)
Mid note: sugar/caramel accord, cinnamon, shots pine
Top note: orange, black pepper, bergamot

This is the whole idea, but it still needs work...

Do you have any tips on the musk accord, for this specific perfume? Thanks

My advice will not be quick or easy but it will be the best technique to acquaint yourself with the nuances of each material. If you do not know how each individual musk material smells individually, then there is no way for you to predict how they will smell together. My advice would be to make the rest of your composition and create a line trial where you add in each musk material individually so you can discover how each musk material adds it's own nuance. Then you can learn that some materials add a powdery aspect, some add an animalic aspect, some are slightly fruity, some add a clean laundry nuance. Only this way will you learn your materials individually so that you can begin to combine them into a musk accord.

 

[chyprefresh]

Another trick could be to build the core of the fragrance without musks then put the musks you plan on using on strips (heavily diluted or tiny tiny blots) and test them along w/ the fragrance on a strip just to get a general idea of how they could work in conjunction.

Also Exaltolide is one of the greatest musk materials out there imo, there is no replacement for it. Velvione is also great in its own right, both can be used successfully in quite low amounts.

 

[mnitabach]

Another trick could be to build the core of the fragrance without musks then put the musks you plan on using on strips (heavily diluted or tiny tiny blots) and test them along w/ the fragrance on a strip just to get a general idea of how they could work in conjunction.

Also Exaltolide is one of the greatest musk materials out there imo, there is no replacement for it. Velvione is also great in its own right, both can be used successfully in quite low amounts.

Note also that exaltolide can also be used at surprisingly high doses yet maintain reasonable transparency, while velvione becomes super opaque if dosed too high.

 

[chyprefresh]

Note also that exaltolide can also be used at surprisingly high doses yet maintain reasonable transparency, while velvione becomes super opaque if dosed too high.

Yeah thanks for the clarification, the reason I said low amounts is because I find people usually dose musks higher than average versus other high strength materials, due to their deceptive nature.

 

[thesacredsaguaro]

My advice will not be quick or easy but it will be the best technique to acquaint yourself with the nuances of each material. If you do not know how each individual musk material smells individually, then there is no way for you to predict how they will smell together. My advice would be to make the rest of your composition and create a line trial where you add in each musk material individually so you can discover how each musk material adds it's own nuance. Then you can learn that some materials add a powdery aspect, some add an animalic aspect, some are slightly fruity, some add a clean laundry nuance. Only this way will you learn your materials individually so that you can begin to combine them into a musk accord.

Look Darren just tell us how to recreate the musk accord in Bathory and no one gets hurt 😜😜😜

 

[Darren Alan]

Look Darren just tell us how to recreate the musk accord in Bathory and no one gets hurt 😜😜😜

🤣🤣🤣 OMG that's so funny! 🤣🤣🤣

 

[ed_perfume]

My advice will not be quick or easy but it will be the best technique to acquaint yourself with the nuances of each material. If you do not know how each individual musk material smells individually, then there is no way for you to predict how they will smell together. My advice would be to make the rest of your composition and create a line trial where you add in each musk material individually so you can discover how each musk material adds it's own nuance. Then you can learn that some materials add a powdery aspect, some add an animalic aspect, some are slightly fruity, some add a clean laundry nuance. Only this way will you learn your materials individually so that you can begin to combine them into a musk accord.

Ok, e I never would have tought to start from mid/top notes and then plan my base notes... I usually start from deep notes. I'll try to do the way you suggest.

Another trick could be to build the core of the fragrance without musks then put the musks you plan on using on strips (heavily diluted or tiny tiny blots) and test them along w/ the fragrance on a strip just to get a general idea of how they could work in conjunction.

Also Exaltolide is one of the greatest musk materials out there imo, there is no replacement for it. Velvione is also great in its own right, both can be used successfully in quite low amounts.

Yes, I heard the strips trick, I'll try that too. I ordered the Exaltolide (Tibetolide) with some other aroma that I need (my poor wallet...). No chance with Velvione, can't find it. But I found Habanolide.

Is Exaltolide and Macrolide Supra the same molecule?

What about the Vertofix into a musk accord? Could cover musks? I need something to make this accord more deep and warm, and vertofix could help, and fix the shots pine, probably?

The musk accord I created (formula in latest post) is good, but lacks in depht...

 

[Darren Alan]

Ok, e I never would have tought to start from mid/top notes and then plan my base notes... I usually start from deep notes. I'll try to do the way you suggest.


Yes, I heard the strips trick, I'll try that too. I ordered the Exaltolide (Tibetolide) with some other aroma that I need (my poor wallet...). No chance with Velvione, can't find it. But I found Habanolide.

Is Exaltolide and Macrolide Supra the same molecule?

What about the Vertofix into a musk accord? Could cover musks? I need something to make this accord more deep and warm, and vertofix could help, and fix the shots pine, probably?

The musk accord I created (formula in latest post) is good, but lacks in depht...

That’s not what I said. I suggested smelling different musks in isolation within an accord…to get a grasp of what they do individually within a composition instead of struggling to smell them in isolation or in a musk accord when you can’t identify each individual musk’s characteristics

 

[jfrater]

For animalic you need para cresol and muscone (muscenone is also nice and more generally appealing but muscone is more authentic to deer musk).