Muguet recommendations

Yuri-G

Basenotes Junkie
Sep 13, 2020
Hi all

I'm looking for some recommendations. I'm planning to put in a small order with Pell Wall. I've got about £45 to play with and space for one more material in my order.

Contenders are:

1. Dihydromyrcenol - an 'essential' that I don't have. I'm not sure if I like it though. Maybe I have been scarred by fragrances that use too much.
2. Stemone - I don't have anything that's purely green, and my order includes Gamma octalactone and bicyclononalactone, so could make a fig accord.
3. Some sort of muguet material. This is what I was hoping for advice on. I have lyral, which I love, so i would want something that provides a different aspect of muguet (for the purposes of diversity).

Pell Wall have the following materials in stock in my price range:

Florol
Florhydral
Hydrocitronellol
Hydrocitronellal (have I read that this can react with other materials? I'm a bit wary of this TBH)
Hydrocitronellal 'stabilised' with 25% hydrocitronellol (does this mean less reactive?)
Mayol
Melafleur (melon/ozonic aspects)

It's slightly overwhelming. Does anyone have recommendations based on what I've said? A fragrance I particularly like is Prada L'homme L'eau. This entire line uses a captive called mahonial (as well as farnesol) and is quite soft and fresh.

Or does anyone particularly think I'd be better off getting dihydromycenol or stemone?

Grateful for any advice.
 
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mnitabach

Basenotes Dependent
Nov 13, 2020
Florol is beautiful, quite transparent, and easy to use. And it's very complementary to lyral & works great together.
 

Yuri-G

Basenotes Junkie
Sep 13, 2020
Florol is beautiful, quite transparent, and easy to use. And it's very complementary to lyral & works great together.

Thanks Mike. The only thing that put me off Floral was the substantivity, which is 24 hours on TGSG. But then there's the following on Pell Wall, which is slightly contradictory:

"Being an alcohol it is more stable than the common muguet aldehydes and can be used both as a replacement and alongside them, as well as in almost any application where you might otherwise consider linalool, where it lends a soft, natural quality.

This material from Firmenich is described by them as “Odor: A fresh, soft and natural floral note reminiscent of muguet. Use: FLOROL® can be used in almost all perfume types where it gives elegant floral diffusion without changing the character of the fragrance. It is a very stable and substantive building block that can also be used to replace less stable floral aldehyde.”

What's your experience of its substantivity?
 

Bill Roberts

Basenotes Dependent
Mar 1, 2013
Will be interested in Mike's report also.

As I have no standardized method for determining substantivity on strips -- how much to apply and at what concentration -- I am only very general in such things. To me it's a longer lasting top note or at the short end of mid but that would depend on how one defined mid.

Firmenich says 3 days on a strip.

I don't have a basis to think that TGSC's method must be the same as Firmenich's, nor would the nose or noses doing the testing at Firmenich necessarily have the same sensitivity to each material as Bill Luebke has.

When something disappears has a ton to do with whether one can perceive it at very low concentrations or not. With a given material one person may, another may not.
 

Bkkorn

Basenotes Junkie
Feb 21, 2020
I'd say if you want a muguet material from your list, its gonna be leaning to these 2:

Florol - very light, slightly transparent, easy to overdose and not ruin your blend. Works well with any floral type fragrance, not just muguet. A good general fresh floralizer.
Florhydral - distinctively muguet, yet slightly aquatic, but not as ozonic as the material (Melafleur) mentioned below. Its powerful so a little goes a long way.

If budget permits, Id grab both of these above, but buy LESS of florhydral because you dont need much to have an impact in your blend, and buy your usual quantity of Florol because you will use much more of it that typical usage, its that light and easy to dose.

Melafleur on the other hand is more of another ozoinc material like floralozone/starfleur, it wont provide much of a Muguet note on its own, but it does add a nice ozonic touch to an already established muguet note thats in the blend. You will enjoy using this as it works well for many blend types, but this could be for a future purchase.
 

Yuri-G

Basenotes Junkie
Sep 13, 2020
I'd say if you want a muguet material from your list, its gonna be leaning to these 2:

Florol - very light, slightly transparent, easy to overdose and not ruin your blend. Works well with any floral type fragrance, not just muguet. A good general fresh floralizer.
Florhydral - distinctively muguet, yet slightly aquatic, but not as ozonic as the material (Melafleur) mentioned below. Its powerful so a little goes a long way.

If budget permits, Id grab both of these above, but buy LESS of florhydral because you dont need much to have an impact in your blend, and buy your usual quantity of Florol because you will use much more of it that typical usage, its that light and easy to dose.

Melafleur on the other hand is more of another ozoinc material like floralozone/starfleur, it wont provide much of a Muguet note on its own, but it does add a nice ozonic touch to an already established muguet note thats in the blend. You will enjoy using this as it works well for many blend types, but this could be for a future purchase.

Thanks - useful descriptions. These were the two most likely candidates I thought.
 

mnitabach

Basenotes Dependent
Nov 13, 2020
In my experience blending with florol, it's a long top, short mid contributor. Depending on the context (obvs), with pretty big doses of florol it contributes discernable floral note lasting at least one hour but no more than two hours on skin. This is what makes it very complementary in big doses to low doses of lyral.

ETA: Diluted to 3% in EtOH & sprayed a few hundred ul on smelling strip, it remained just barely detectable for 24 hours.
 

Bill Roberts

Basenotes Dependent
Mar 1, 2013
Which btw doesn't confirm Leubke as he applied some unknown amount at 100% concentration, very much greater, yet reported about the same duration, and I don't know if he sprays or dips. If he dips, which I suspect is the case, then the difference is even bigger.
 

Yuri-G

Basenotes Junkie
Sep 13, 2020
In my experience blending with florol, it's a long top, short mid contributor. Depending on the context (obvs), with pretty big doses of florol it contributes discernable floral note lasting at least one hour but no more than two hours on skin. This is what makes it very complementary in big doses to low doses of lyral.

ETA: Diluted to 3% in EtOH & sprayed a few hundred ul on smelling strip, it remained just barely detectable for 24 hours.

Great. I'll probably get both at some point, but am leaning towards Florol at the moment. It sounds more versatile.

I read someone on this forum say that it works fantastically with sclareolate, which I have from a sample.

Thanks for the advice.
 

Yuri-G

Basenotes Junkie
Sep 13, 2020
Oh, out of interest, wondering why no one has recommended mayol? That was also high up the list for me, based on what i had read.
 

Stefan.E

Super Member
Nov 18, 2020
Oh, out of interest, wondering why no one has recommended mayol? That was also high up the list for me, based on what i had read.

Honestly I really love Mayol, has a slight freshness to it that I enjoy. I didn't think much of it when I got it but after using it a while I really like overdosing it, and can be very useful in combination with lilyflore to try and "replace" lilial. For it's price I'd say it's worth it!
For Muguet I can recommend Phenyl Ethyl Alcohol, Cyclamen Aldehyde, Hedione HC, Hydroxycitronellal, Florhydral if you haven't gotten those yet. Hope it helps!
 
May 23, 2020
I find cyclamen aldehyde, florhydral, and helional to have similar facets but slightly different enough to blend into a nice accord using Hydroxycitronellal and lyral. And there's the Givaudan formula obviously that uses PEA, Hedione, Ethyl Linalool, Geranyl acetate, Benzyl acetate, Indolene 50, Leaf alcohol, and Hexenyl cis-3 acetate. I havent made it up yet, but maybe I will today and get back.
 

Yuri-G

Basenotes Junkie
Sep 13, 2020
Honestly I really love Mayol, has a slight freshness to it that I enjoy. I didn't think much of it when I got it but after using it a while I really like overdosing it, and can be very useful in combination with lilyflore to try and "replace" lilial. For it's price I'd say it's worth it!
For Muguet I can recommend Phenyl Ethyl Alcohol, Cyclamen Aldehyde, Hedione HC, Hydroxycitronellal, Florhydral if you haven't gotten those yet. Hope it helps!

Thanks. Ah, choices, choices...
 

jfrater

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Jun 2, 2005
Hydroxyctronallal is still the most beautiful muguet chemical and IFRA has recently allowed an increase in how much can be used since they banned Lyral. Cyclosia by Firmenich is the best quality of this material you can buy today. It costs more but is worth it.

You may also want to look at dupical which can be used in very small amounts for a very big impact - it smells very much like real lily of the valley flowers.
 

Yuri-G

Basenotes Junkie
Sep 13, 2020
Hydroxyctronallal is still the most beautiful muguet chemical and IFRA has recently allowed an increase in how much can be used since they banned Lyral. Cyclosia by Firmenich is the best quality of this material you can buy today. It costs more but is worth it.

You may also want to look at dupical which can be used in very small amounts for a very big impact - it smells very much like real lily of the valley flowers.

Thanks. I opted for florol in the end and also decided to swap out one of the other materials on the order for DHM as I figured that's a big difference between what I'm creating and real perfumes. I will just go easy.

Regarding hydrocitronellal, I have read stuff about it reacting with other materials and creating a Schiff's base. I decided that's something to explore when I'm more experienced.

Yeah, I was surprised by how little lyral smells of actual lily of the valley. It's a scent I associate with my grandparents. They had a big drift of it in their garden, and my gran used lily of the valley talc which i remember sniffing as a kid. This was back in the 80s so formulation might have been different to what would be used now.
 

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