Mignonette (Reseda odorata) Reseda absolute

julian35

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Feb 28, 2009
Hello,
I am searching for the absolute of this flower.
CAS Number :91721-98-1
Does anyone have it or sell it? I have not seen reference to it in many places, and nothing I see for purchase.
Thank you


"Mignonette has been grown in the Grasse region for perfumery purpose (by extraction).
In order to achieve highly odoriferous flowers, mignonette requires a rich, fertile, clean soil with plenty of sun and irrigation.
The flowers have an intense, sweet, violet-like and fruity odor with a green nuance.
Interestingly, the vacuum headspace concentrate of mignonette flowers contains remarkable amounts of the theaspirones shown, 4-11 % and 4-6 %, respectively. These compounds are also known as natural constituents of tobacco aroma and are, as well as the ionones, derived from carotenoid precursors.
" From http://www.bojensen.net
 
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Mark

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2005
Hello,
I am searching for the absolute of this flower.
CAS Number :91721-98-1
Does anyone have it or sell it? I have not seen any reference to it in many places, and nothing I see for purchase.
Thank you

The only supplier I can find is Parchem http://www.parchem.com/chemical-supplier-distributor/reseda-absolute-014595.aspx
However they won't supply small amounts and charge $500 for samples.

Let us know if you find a usable source as Reseda sound interesting.
 

David Ruskin

Well-known member
May 28, 2009
I Googled Reseda odorata absolute, and there were a few, obscure suppliers;but nothing that I would rely on. I would have thought that Biolandes or Monique Remy (LMR) would have supplied this material, but it wasn't listed on their sites.
 

pkiler

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 5, 2007
And it seems that Parchem has a lot listed, but may not even in fact be able to get what they have listed.

They have Spanish Cedar wood EO listed, and they have not been able to obtain any for me for five years, yet still list it.

PK

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know these people, but this came up:

http://botanicplanet.com/product-action-view-pid-3149-cid-69-p-reseda_absolute.html

But they're also sellng Orris Root Absolute at $110 for 30ml. - - Completely unrealistically cheap.
And: Lilac Absolute for $180 for 30ml -- I don't think so...

I'd bet that all of these three products are fake.

PK
 
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julian35

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Feb 28, 2009
Ok, thanks for your thoughts on this item. I ran it thorough all the search engines I could muster, and came up with similar results. Good Scents does list it, but little else information. I will keep searching for this elusive absolute.
Personally, I wouldn't touch Botanic Planet. :eek:)
Any experience with Reseda Acetal?
Mark, did you contact Parchem recently to get that information?

Cheers!
 
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Mark

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2005
Mark, did you contact Parchem recently to get that information?

To quote from an email I received in response to a samples request..
"Our sample policy at Parchem is we must charge $500 towards samples which would be used as a credit against your purchase of a commercial volume.
What this means is, your company must pay $500 initially. Once samples have been approved, we will credit your commercial volume purchase $500"
 

Nizan

Well-known member
Nov 15, 2013
Does anyone have a basic accord to give me an idea what does this smell like?
I've seen it has some commonalities with Tobacco..
Thanks!
 

Bill Roberts

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2013
Parchem is, somehow, by their account, "the leading global distributor of specialty raw materials," yet elsewhere they're listed as $10-$25 million in annual revenue. Which does not match up at all. My experience in a different field is that anything I've looked for and found them listing, they don't appear to actually have, and in some cases so far as I later found they're not commercially available period, as Paul has found. They may be one of the companies that's in the business of listing essentially everything both to find out what people want, and to scramble to find something if there's a big enough fish biting.
 
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Nizan

Well-known member
Nov 15, 2013
Anyone?
Hmm.. I've been playing around with the Dune accord I'm building, and I'm thinking it might have a significant amount of Benzyl Salicylate.. Would that be part of a Mignonette accord?

Thanks
 

nemenator

Well-known member
Dec 8, 2012
This accord is all I could fine, but one of the chemicals seems unobtainable-
Anonis/Gattefosse 1950

250 alpha ionone
50 Orris resinoid
100 Methyl ionone
100 Phenyl propyl acetate (can't find)
200 Geraniol palmarosa
75 Phenyl ethyl acetate
25 Styralyl acetate
25 Methyl nonyl ketone
75 Bergamot

Has anyone any idea of a replacement for the Phenyl propyl acetate "sweet balsam storax spicy cinnamon"?
 

Trufflehunter

Well-known member
Sep 3, 2008
Has anyone any idea of a replacement for the Phenyl propyl acetate "sweet balsam storax spicy cinnamon"?

Ditto for Methyl Nonyl Ketone. This accord looks promising. The large quantities of Ionones seem 'right' and concur with my recollection of the real flower. But I have no Orris, no Phenyl Propyl Acetate and no Methyl Nonyl Ketone. :(
 

nemenator

Well-known member
Dec 8, 2012
I guess Cinnamyl acetate will substitute for Phenyl propyl acetate (aka hydrocinnamyl acetate). It's also a hyacinth modifier, "sweet floral spicy balsam cinnamon" and cheap from PA & Olfactik. Methyl Nonyl Ketone is available from Perfumers World.
 

Trufflehunter

Well-known member
Sep 3, 2008
Thanks for that clarification. Didn't your original post of the formula include Terpineol? I pasted it into my Excel spreadsheet where I keep interesting 'finds' and Terpineol was listed.
 

nemenator

Well-known member
Dec 8, 2012
Thanks for that clarification. Didn't your original post of the formula include Terpineol? I pasted it into my Excel spreadsheet where I keep interesting 'finds' and Terpineol was listed.

Whoops, thanks- there is indeed 100 units of Terpineol making 1000 units in all.

Has anybody tried Reseda Body by IFF? Susan at Creating Perfume may have a sample.
 

gecko214

Well-known member
May 7, 2010
I just found out Proxisante will be getting Reseda body at the end of January. (They also now have Clearwood and something called "Leather, molecular distillation")
 

nicotiro

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
The Reseda absolute i bought from Botanic Universe is AMAZING (im turned off from botanic planet cos i think they drop ship from botanic universe or something)
i don't mind "low" prices because ive found suppliers selling santalum album for $133 for 50ml directly from india. which i will be buying next. ehem. love that sandalwood base.

but in all honestly botanic universe absolutes are totally good and so well priced. 5ml of the reseda absolute is on sale now for $29 CAD
i have been studying aromatherapy since 2013 so im no perfume expert but for essential oils i think im ok somewhat qualified but can still probably get duped for example, i thought this reseda absolute smelled artificial because i had no idea expensive flower oils could be so good because i am poor and could never afford them. Its that type of mentality that holds me back from trying things that I look deeply for (for a better price)
I grew up with fresh flower arrangements and i did not think the rose de mai was artificial or tampered with at all, at $17 CAD for 5ml, it is a steal. i thought the gardenia equally amazing.

The other classic absolutes are for me cost prohibitive (narcissus, neroli, jasmins, other roses) at the moment, but for the most part these are the materials you want.
 

parker25mv

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2016
Interestingly, the vacuum headspace concentrate of mignonette flowers contains remarkable amounts of the theaspirones shown, 4-11 % and 4-6 %, respectively. These compounds are also known as natural constituents of tobacco aroma and are, as well as the ionones, derived from carotenoid precursors. "
For anyone interested in advanced biochemistry, theaspirane (another commercially available fragrance ingredient) can probably be oxidized to theaspirone via the method elaborated upon in this thread: A synthetic route to damascenone family compounds (advanced chemistry) (look at the oxidation of valencene to nootkatone further down)

Theaspirane sometimes goes under the name Orspirane.

Looking at the structure of theaspirone, I'm sure it must be a wonderful smelling ingredient. Ketone terpene compounds include such wonderful smelling substances as Tabanone (tobacco), Apritone (unripe apricot/peach), Nootkatone (rhubarb green grapefruit), Vetivone (primary substance that gives vetiver its smell), damascenone (rose/apple) and ionone (violet). This is a wonderful family of compounds, if they could be grouped together into a family.


If you are trying to copy the smell of tobacco flowers, benzyl acetone may be another synthetic that could help give a similar effect here (although it would likely be vastly inferior).
 

James Peterson

Well-known member
Dec 20, 2011
There's a whole section about reseda (mignonette) in my 1925 edition of Poucher. History: Mignonette, is a native of Egypt and the shores of the Mediterranean. The plant was known to Pliny, and in those days the Romans used it as a charm to allay the irritation of wounds. The origin of the word may even be connected with its clinical value and is said to be derived from the Latin Resedo, to heal. According to Pliny, the plant grew near the city of Ariminum (now Rimini) in Italy. At an early date it was introduced in the south of France, where it received the name mignonette, signifying in French "little darling." It made its appearance in Britain about 1750, and two years later is stated to have been cultivated in the Apothecaries' Botanic Gardens, Chelsea. Since then it has been a great favorite and in this country is an annual, while in the south off Europe it becomes shrubby.
Varieties: [he mentions six varieties, with R. odorata being the most desirable. He goes on about the contents of the essential oil which he describes as having an aroma of radishes. ]
Synthetic Otto: There are few synthetic aromatic chemicals with odors resembling reseda and the majority of imitations really contain fairly large proportions of the natural absolute. Ethyl decide carbonate probably bears the closest resemblance and is used up to 5%. This material is backed up with methyl ionone for a fairly good base. Another body having a distinct Reseda-like odor is hexyl methyl ketone and providing it is blended with one of the violet ketones will make a useful base. The floral note is obtained by the employment of natural Jasmin and Cassie in addition to reseda absolute, while the odor maybe modified by including traces of aldehyde C-12 and basil oil. The use of the latter gives results which approximate very closely the odor of the flower and as much as five percent may be employed. The synthetic ottos are best fixed with oleo-resin orris and labdanum, but variations may be made with musk ambrette, kostus or styrax.
A: Ethyl decine carbonate 50 cc.
Methyl ionone 200 cc.
Reseda geraniol 250 cc.
Cassie absolute 50 cc.
Jasmin 100 cc.
Orris oleo-resin 75 cc.
Labdanum R. 50 cc.
Reseda absolute 200 cc.
Duodecyl alcohol 20 cc.
Clary sage oil 5 cc.
B:
Methyl ionone 300 cc.
Hexyl methyl ketone 100 cc.
Violet leaf concrete 50 grams
Methyl heptine carbonate 10 cc.
Aldehyde C-12 10 cc.
Benzyl acetate 50 cc.
Orris oil concrete 50 cc.
Basil oil 50 cc.
Sandalwood 100 cc.
Cistus R. 40 cc.
Geraniol 100 cc.
Ylang (Bourbon) 30 cc.
Musk ambrette 10 grams
Reseda concrete 100 grams
 

nicotiro

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
ooohhh this is such great info !!

i will try and use some of these materials when working on my reseda composition. i have geraniol, cassie flower absolute, clary sage, violet leaf, ylang (but its not burbon)

this is my redesa composition i have called it "violet may rose"
this is the second version

.06 chamomille roman
.22 honeysuckle abs
.04 rose de mai
.15 mimosa abs
.12 reseda abs
.13 labdanum abs
.06 osmanthus extract
1.07 copaiba balsam
.04 sandalwood (album)
.05 tobacco leaf 5%
.27 sandalore 2.25%
.11 ebanol 2.25%
.005 musk ketone
.005 vetiver sri lanka
.47 benzoin
.10 ionone alpha
.11 ionone beta
.07 magnolan
.01 oranger crystal
.08 cinnamyl alcohol
.02 farnesol
.06 #17.2 (12.5% each of oakmoss and violet leaf)
.07 #17 (unknown- i think this has some violet accord from p.a. and oakmoss and violet leaf so in the next reformulation i will just add my violet accord, which is the p.a. accord with tobacco leaf, orris, and coumarin, directly in a tiny amount and adjust #17.2)
to 5 grams ethanol
havent worked out what this concentration is actually.
its a bit thin and i would like it to be more thicker with a wood maybe. if this makes any sense.
 

parker25mv

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2016
A: Ethyl decine carbonate 50 cc.
Hmm, interesting. Good Scents describes ethyl decine carbonate as smelling "mignonette, waxy".

I'm sure ethyl heptine carbonate would likely also have a very similar sort of effect, if the former could not be sourced.


It is interesting though that even the established Reseda accord relies on the use of a little bit of Reseda. Apparently the synthetics cannot entirely replace the real thing.

Also keep in mind that that (really wonderful, by the way) section on Reseda in perfumery is from 1925, and Hedione (to make an synthetic jasmine accord) was not discovered until 1958. Which explains why they used natural jasmine in the accord instead of going into more specific aromachemicals.


Also, doing an odor description search in Good Scents, I found "leafy acetal" (2-(1-propoxyethoxy)ethylbenzene), which might be of some use.
Symrise describes it as "dry-green, like Reseda-absolute, as well as reminiscent of tobacco", while IFF describes it as "Powerful leafy green with facets of hyacinth".

There's also "reseda acetal" but I get a feeling that one may not be too promising because the molecular structure looks very similar to that of Floropal, which I am not a fan of. (I know, maybe I'm being prejudiced, very tiny differences in molecular structure can sometimes lead to big differences in smell)

I know this is a very speculative (and probably without much real basis), but from what I am seeing in these molecules that are said to smell reminiscent of Reseda, is that many of them have two oxygen centers. That leads me to believe Edenolide, a very newly released fruity musk, might perhaps be useful here. Just an idea to try.

I know many of these are very tenuous ideas, but there does not seem to be much modern information available on putting together a synthetic Reseda accord.
 

parker25mv

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2016
will try to sniff the hyacinth body i have
the headspace shown here says its mostly natural ionones
This may have completely nothing to do with Reseda, but one of the three main naturals in hyacinth is ethyl 2-methoxybenzoate (sweet, floral, heavy-fruity odour).
(I also notice the molecular structure has two oxygen centers, and correlating to that it has a fruitiness)
This might be another material to experiment with, I don't really know.
 

vertvert

New member
Jun 10, 2021
The Reseda absolute i bought from Botanic Universe is AMAZING (im turned off from botanic planet cos i think they drop ship from botanic universe or something)
i don't mind "low" prices because ive found suppliers selling santalum album for $133 for 50ml directly from india. which i will be buying next. ehem. love that sandalwood base.

but in all honestly botanic universe absolutes are totally good and so well priced. 5ml of the reseda absolute is on sale now for $29 CAD
i have been studying aromatherapy since 2013 so im no perfume expert but for essential oils i think im ok somewhat qualified but can still probably get duped for example, i thought this reseda absolute smelled artificial because i had no idea expensive flower oils could be so good because i am poor and could never afford them. Its that type of mentality that holds me back from trying things that I look deeply for (for a better price)
I grew up with fresh flower arrangements and i did not think the rose de mai was artificial or tampered with at all, at $17 CAD for 5ml, it is a steal. i thought the gardenia equally amazing.

The other classic absolutes are for me cost prohibitive (narcissus, neroli, jasmins, other roses) at the moment, but for the most part these are the materials you want.

Sorry, Paul is correct, the vendor is NOT reputable. I've visited both and have perfumer friends in Ontario who purchased their products just for inspection. The stuff they sell is fake. And also, and perhaps this wasn't part of your 'aromatherapy' training, you can always tell a reputable vendor by the presence of GCMS and other documentation along with thorough product background and description and usually extensive reviews - and not only positive ones. Most of the top vendors of naturals (which are not in Canada) will publish even negative reviews. And they have their documentation upfront. And short of that, they're established and respected among perfumers. If cost is an issue I'd recommend sticking to either synthetics or choosing oils that you can afford and that are authentic - and you can find out by checking the data sheets and also looking up information online. I'd recommend taking a introductory perfumery course and getting to know some working perfumers who can advise you as to how to source quality materials and the practices of perfumery which are nothing like what is offered in an aromatherapy course.

I'd warn anyone else on basenotes to avoid botanic planet, sunrise, saffire blue and all of these related companies as they've all got very bad track records - which are easily searchable online. Go to Better Business Bureau and look them up, read their Google reviews - you'll find endless complaints that they're scamming customers.
 

vertvert

New member
Jun 10, 2021
I came here for the same reason as others: I was curious to find a vendor. But when you do an exhaustive search of all the usual places - including the reputable and obvious ones - and NOTHING comes up, that means the product likely doesn't exist. So if the only place setting it is some dodgy obscure site no working perfumer buys from that's a good clue that it's not actually on the market. There's so many materials like this. And if you go to Good Scents you'll find a page for the absolute but no supplier listed - I've also seen pages for a 'replacer' but no supplier. Perhaps it was available and the supplier stopped producing it - who knows why. Either way, I'd say just look up the primary constituents and have a go at formulating a nice little accord out of related materials. It's very violety and fruity like osmanthus and I'm sure with a little creativity and some good ionones anyone here could come up with a fun little formula for others to use until a viable product is available? In the meantime, pick up a some seeds and grow some - they're very easy to grow and the scent is wonderful. You can be like Ed Roudnitska and have your own little patch for inspiration ;-)
 

parker25mv

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2016
I came here for the same reason as others: I was curious to find a vendor. But when you do an exhaustive search of all the usual places - including the reputable and obvious ones - and NOTHING comes up, that means the product likely doesn't exist.
There is always the option of growing your own. That is likely going to be too much work for most perfumers, but it is an option that exists.
It grows as an annual in climates with colder winters.
 

parker25mv

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2016
Ethyl decine carbonate 50 cc.
More to add about that.
Another member in this forum, jfrater, had this to say:

"Okay just wanted to say that my ethyl decine carbonate arrived yesterday. What an interesting chemical! It is similar to Methyl Heptine Carbonate and Methyl Octine Carbonate in that the profile is quite leafy, but in the case of EDC is really does have reseda nuances to it - that kind of citrusy, fruity violet sort of smell. It is much weaker to smell directly than either MOC or MHC and using 2% in my reseda accord is a perfect amount."

https://www.basenotes.net/threads/411749-Ethyl-Decine-Carbonate-any-ideas-about-this-chemical
 

Bill Roberts

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2013
That thread was an amazing example of some of the discussions here back in the day (By no means am I complaining about the present, I'm just saying there was some amazing stuff years back). I noticed it yesterday or day before when that oldie was bumped for absolutely no reason.

Methyl octine carbonate vs the heptine vs the decine, with quite informed and expert discussion, imagine that!
 

julian35

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Feb 28, 2009
Agreed Bill, some robust discussion for sure. ,...

and now 8 years later I see IFF Reseda Body (CAS No. 67633-94-7) is available. I haven't tried it.
https://pellwall.com/shop/ingredients-for-perfumery/liquids/reseda-body/





Reseda acetal

Arcadi Boix Camps, writing in 1985 tells us that it is “… another important and relatively unknown chemical of extraordinary fragrance between narcissus, reseda, hyacinth and magnolia. It is a minor ingredient in the perfume Alliage, another one of those giants in the world of perfumery that brings together some green notes with odors of incense, costus and ambergris as well as some spicy notes with a lightly woody, Helional, musky galaxolide, hexadecanolide background.”1972 Aliage Estée Lauder
Perfumers: Bernard Chant, Francis Camail


(A google search for Reseda turns up the same disreputable suppliers though, fascinating.)
 

parker25mv

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2016
One more thing I just found:

phenyl acetaldehyde dimethyl acetal (Viridine, made by Givaudan)
"Odor Description: Green-earthy, flower-stem, floral-hyacinth. Powerful
Arctander says: This is one of the most widely used acetals in perfumery. Although always a minor component, it enters a multitude of fragrance types where it may lend green notes, earthy notes, floral notes, spicy notes or simply power. ... and with the methyl ionones in woody-floral-spicy complexes it is often used in Gardenia, Reseda and Carnation to lend spicy foliage note to the sweet florals, or earthy-rooty notes in Reseda."

So apparently it has, in addition to spicy foliage notes, earthy-rooty notes that can contribute to a Reseda accord.
 

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