- Jul 12, 2021
In the last weeks I have read this term in relation to brands like Creed, Andy Tauer and others: maceration.
After the complaints of some users regarding the poor longevity and sillage of various fragrances, the reply of some Basenoters as well as some brand representatives is: maybe it needs maceration, it could be possible that a few months the perfume smell better/more powerful.
With all due respect, but such a thing is a bit ridiculous to me.
I am aware that perfumes - like certain wines - can improve over time (up to a point, and some perfumes more than others).
I am a person who most of the time is thinking the worst - excuse me - and I can imagine a new marketing approach for some perfume brands, something like: "our perfume now smells like s***, it's a generic smell and nothing complex... also, its longevity is poor, but let it macerate for about 6 months and yippee! you will see how wonderful!".
If the current versions of fragrances such as Aventus or L'Air du Desert Marocain for example, smell much less potent, diluted - low sillage and poor longevity - than a few years ago, can anyone really believe that the problem is in letting them macerate?
Could it be that the formula has been diluted?
Again, I agree that these fragrances can improve over time, I am not doubting that.
What I'm saying is what the heck does that come to now when these fragrances - or others - are comparing negatively with batches from 5 years ago. What happens, that the fragrances from 5 years ago were already macerated and these were not?
And in the last 2 years I do not think that perfume sales have increased after COVID compared to before, rather it will be the opposite.
And what about the testers, are they macerated or not?
You try it, do you like it, and then when you buy the bottle it doesn't smell like anything at all?
It is a question that I bring up, openly declaring my complete ignorance in this area.
So I ask the experts here if they can shed light on the matter.
After the complaints of some users regarding the poor longevity and sillage of various fragrances, the reply of some Basenoters as well as some brand representatives is: maybe it needs maceration, it could be possible that a few months the perfume smell better/more powerful.
With all due respect, but such a thing is a bit ridiculous to me.
I am aware that perfumes - like certain wines - can improve over time (up to a point, and some perfumes more than others).
I am a person who most of the time is thinking the worst - excuse me - and I can imagine a new marketing approach for some perfume brands, something like: "our perfume now smells like s***, it's a generic smell and nothing complex... also, its longevity is poor, but let it macerate for about 6 months and yippee! you will see how wonderful!".
If the current versions of fragrances such as Aventus or L'Air du Desert Marocain for example, smell much less potent, diluted - low sillage and poor longevity - than a few years ago, can anyone really believe that the problem is in letting them macerate?
Could it be that the formula has been diluted?
Again, I agree that these fragrances can improve over time, I am not doubting that.
What I'm saying is what the heck does that come to now when these fragrances - or others - are comparing negatively with batches from 5 years ago. What happens, that the fragrances from 5 years ago were already macerated and these were not?
And in the last 2 years I do not think that perfume sales have increased after COVID compared to before, rather it will be the opposite.
And what about the testers, are they macerated or not?
You try it, do you like it, and then when you buy the bottle it doesn't smell like anything at all?
It is a question that I bring up, openly declaring my complete ignorance in this area.
So I ask the experts here if they can shed light on the matter.
- Jul 25, 2015
These are questions that bedevil me, too. The only notion that I keep coming back to is that in this era of severe restrictions, shortages, Frankenstein-like innovation and chemical substitutions,, we're enmeshed in experimentation and no one has definitive answers, not yet. The science and the art of perfumery have irrevocably changed. That strikes me as the only certainty, at this point.
- Jul 16, 2004
It’s not something I obsess about but I have noticed that some perfumes improve with age. Chanel N°5 parfum is one such. For years what I have been doing is buying the “next” bottle when I open the “new one” and letting it sit until the newly opened one is finished, at which time I start the backup bottle and buy the next backup, etc.
Another surprising example is the scent I am wearing now, Angel Muse. Haven’t worn it for months, maybe a year. It was very well blended when new but when resuming it—wow! It has the depth and complexity of a perfume from the 1940s or ‘50s like never before and at the same time seems more refined!
Another surprising example is the scent I am wearing now, Angel Muse. Haven’t worn it for months, maybe a year. It was very well blended when new but when resuming it—wow! It has the depth and complexity of a perfume from the 1940s or ‘50s like never before and at the same time seems more refined!
Currently Wearing: Allure Eau de Toilette by Chanel
D
Deleted member 26305106
Guest
Maceration is a confounding variable at best.
- May 12, 2019
thinking it has more to do with our noses than anything else.
Currently Wearing: EO No. 2 Tibet Parfum by Ensar Oud
- Jan 2, 2020
I've never been a believer of "dilution", the actual perfume to begin with costs pennies. Especially for brands like Creed. What might happen is a switch of suppliers who have an inferior/not as potent/different ingredient to the previous. Same as wine, it's all about the grape – how much sun/rain/wind etc. it's getting, the soil it's in and so on.
Currently Wearing: Vétiver Extraordinaire by Editions de Parfums Frederic Malle
D
Deleted member 26305106
Guest
I think the body of Cialdini’s work would broadly support this statement. On the other hand it also supports that we are all susceptible to influence and persuasion. If not maceration it will be some other influence on perception. Most people believe that influence only works on others and they are exceptions.
- Jul 12, 2021
- Thread starter
- #9
Thanks for your comments, I appreciate all the answers.
Really these kinds of issues - which can be considered somewhat "technical" although there is also a lot of "fuzziness" in them - brings together many different voices because, obviously as fans of x or y fragrance sometimes we feel concerned.
Well, maybe concerned is not the word, but let's say most of us "smell a rat".
I would like to leave two comments:
Sometimes there is much talk about the "nose" of each one as if to emphasize that the sensory experience of smelling a perfume is a totally subjective and personal, and I think that any person here would admit this statement to some degree.
But we must not lose sight of the fact that it is not so in its entirety.
I mean, here in the forums we are seeing cases of people who do not know each other, who live in the USA and India, in France and the UK, who ignore the comments of others and who write practically the same thing, the same feelings.
This makes me infer that there is something more than a perception, let's say, "biased".
On the other hand, it is understandable that "a switch of suppliers who have an inferior / not as potent / different ingredient to the previous one" are the cause of this changes.
But is this not at the end of the day a lowering of costs? Obviously the cost of a perfume does not represent a large % of the total general costs involved in making it, but I also suppose that a perfumer does not buy the raw material to make a single bottle, but many more!
There the small difference becomes an interesting amount that can be saved.
Also, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, this changes are always for the worse.
Let me explain: no perfume brand that I know of launches a line of perfumes and after 3 or 4 years these scents begin to smell stronger and increase their longevity, or have more "body"... no; It is always the opposite, normally over the years the new versions tend to "pale" when compared to the originals... what a coincidence!
I work in the clothing industry, and I can assure you that I do not work for Gucci, Armani or any other high-end brand.
And I am in contact with many factories and most of them carry out at least a tiny quality control.
That is, check the garment after its manufacture, or at least some batches as a reference: pockets, seams, dirt, buttons ... well, you get the picture.
I understand that the world of perfume is very particular, really.
But sometimes it seems that there is no type of control in what goes on the market or is it my impression?
It seems that a person who buys an Aventus for a good handful of dollars seems to be buying a lottery ticket! lol
It's a matter of luck, if your batch meets expectations or not.
Good luck then!
Really these kinds of issues - which can be considered somewhat "technical" although there is also a lot of "fuzziness" in them - brings together many different voices because, obviously as fans of x or y fragrance sometimes we feel concerned.
Well, maybe concerned is not the word, but let's say most of us "smell a rat".
I would like to leave two comments:
Sometimes there is much talk about the "nose" of each one as if to emphasize that the sensory experience of smelling a perfume is a totally subjective and personal, and I think that any person here would admit this statement to some degree.
But we must not lose sight of the fact that it is not so in its entirety.
I mean, here in the forums we are seeing cases of people who do not know each other, who live in the USA and India, in France and the UK, who ignore the comments of others and who write practically the same thing, the same feelings.
This makes me infer that there is something more than a perception, let's say, "biased".
On the other hand, it is understandable that "a switch of suppliers who have an inferior / not as potent / different ingredient to the previous one" are the cause of this changes.
But is this not at the end of the day a lowering of costs? Obviously the cost of a perfume does not represent a large % of the total general costs involved in making it, but I also suppose that a perfumer does not buy the raw material to make a single bottle, but many more!
There the small difference becomes an interesting amount that can be saved.
Also, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, this changes are always for the worse.
Let me explain: no perfume brand that I know of launches a line of perfumes and after 3 or 4 years these scents begin to smell stronger and increase their longevity, or have more "body"... no; It is always the opposite, normally over the years the new versions tend to "pale" when compared to the originals... what a coincidence!
I work in the clothing industry, and I can assure you that I do not work for Gucci, Armani or any other high-end brand.
And I am in contact with many factories and most of them carry out at least a tiny quality control.
That is, check the garment after its manufacture, or at least some batches as a reference: pockets, seams, dirt, buttons ... well, you get the picture.
I understand that the world of perfume is very particular, really.
But sometimes it seems that there is no type of control in what goes on the market or is it my impression?
It seems that a person who buys an Aventus for a good handful of dollars seems to be buying a lottery ticket! lol
It's a matter of luck, if your batch meets expectations or not.
Good luck then!
- Jul 20, 2017
Where to start? It’s a complicated question you ask which I think encompasses more than just the maceration part.
I am not a perfumer and if you wanted a more technical answer to this part it may be best to pose your question to some of the chemist folk over in the DIY section, but I will answer as I understand it -
When the fragrance ingredients are mixed they need time to mingle and mix so they are a combined into a cohesive perfume rather than being individual oils and aromachemicals in the same bottle. They are mixed and I believe that they need time to find an equilibrium where all ingredients have reacted all they are going to and mingled enough to then be considered a finished perfume ready to be purchased by a customer.
The aging of a fragrance also has a part to play and this is more apparent in some fragrances and houses than others. This I think is where much of the arguments come from; Imagine you have a house like Chanel or Guerlain, which have dozens of bases they have created combining many ingredients to produce a consistent product and reduce inconsistencies from year to year and batch to batch so that if you buy a product today and in 8 years it should smell the same or extremely close. The perfumer has made every effort to ensure that the fragrance will smell the same but when you buy that bottle 8 years later and compare it to the earlier one it won’t smell exactly the same because one has aged and one is fresh. This gets exagerated when small batch naturals are used and there is greater variation.
So this only accounts for maceration and aging or maturation. When you also factor in voluntary IFRA compliance, ingredient banned by law, ingredient sourcing issues, cost cutting, ‘performance optimisation’ (or deliberate weakening to get you to use more), you can see why it’s not a simple issue to answer fully.
This doesn’t even include the hype around tiny packaging changes and people whipping others into a frenzy to buy the 2020 because the 2021 is ‘weak sauce’.
On the whole I think maceration is a minor part compared to many of the other factors.
Quality control is essential for consistency to get the same thing over and over. Tweaks and adjustments have to still be made between batches so the smell is the same.
On a slight tangent I have found that sometimes it’s unknowable outcomes, unintended consequences and occasional inconsistencies that create amazing products where creativity is concerned - a company catches lightning in a bottle and it can’t reproduce it but it’s created something amazing at least for a while.
I am not a perfumer and if you wanted a more technical answer to this part it may be best to pose your question to some of the chemist folk over in the DIY section, but I will answer as I understand it -
When the fragrance ingredients are mixed they need time to mingle and mix so they are a combined into a cohesive perfume rather than being individual oils and aromachemicals in the same bottle. They are mixed and I believe that they need time to find an equilibrium where all ingredients have reacted all they are going to and mingled enough to then be considered a finished perfume ready to be purchased by a customer.
The aging of a fragrance also has a part to play and this is more apparent in some fragrances and houses than others. This I think is where much of the arguments come from; Imagine you have a house like Chanel or Guerlain, which have dozens of bases they have created combining many ingredients to produce a consistent product and reduce inconsistencies from year to year and batch to batch so that if you buy a product today and in 8 years it should smell the same or extremely close. The perfumer has made every effort to ensure that the fragrance will smell the same but when you buy that bottle 8 years later and compare it to the earlier one it won’t smell exactly the same because one has aged and one is fresh. This gets exagerated when small batch naturals are used and there is greater variation.
So this only accounts for maceration and aging or maturation. When you also factor in voluntary IFRA compliance, ingredient banned by law, ingredient sourcing issues, cost cutting, ‘performance optimisation’ (or deliberate weakening to get you to use more), you can see why it’s not a simple issue to answer fully.
This doesn’t even include the hype around tiny packaging changes and people whipping others into a frenzy to buy the 2020 because the 2021 is ‘weak sauce’.
On the whole I think maceration is a minor part compared to many of the other factors.
Quality control is essential for consistency to get the same thing over and over. Tweaks and adjustments have to still be made between batches so the smell is the same.
On a slight tangent I have found that sometimes it’s unknowable outcomes, unintended consequences and occasional inconsistencies that create amazing products where creativity is concerned - a company catches lightning in a bottle and it can’t reproduce it but it’s created something amazing at least for a while.
Currently Wearing: Bon Monsieur by Rogue Perfumery
- Nov 27, 2020
This is such a wonderfully written response and I thoroughly agree with everything you've covered. I particularly love your description of catching 'lightning in a bottle'. That's the perfumer's holy grail, and it has nothing to do with strictly adhering to a formula, or even sourcing the exact same materials, it is a great mystery of unknowable elements and a serendipitous moment to be savoured. Thanks for your fabulous post.
- Jul 20, 2017
Thank you Teone.
With all other preparation, skill, knowledge, hard work and talent I still believe serendipity is of immeasurable value for a creator.
Currently Wearing: Bon Monsieur by Rogue Perfumery
- Jul 12, 2021
- Thread starter
- #14
The mystique and mythification in the world of perfumes is often palpable.
Here I am talking about concrete facts in reference to certain fragrances and what are happening right now and can be traced.
In recent Aventus and L'Air Desert du Marocain threads you can get an idea.
I mention these two because they are the most recent (I also do not want to "victimize" them because I am sure there are more cases).
But this is not new; what is something newer is to bring up the issue of "maceration" - by some sources- , and that was the reason for opening this thread.
Yes, it is true that these facts are "simply" the statements of many people in this regard and, as such, one can agree more or less (the typical "is their word against mine").
Many of them are users who bought the fragrance years ago and when buying it now they denote difference, mainly in projection and longevity.
Here in Basenotes - but not only here - we are seeing cases of people who do not know each other, who live in different countries, who ignore the comments of others and who write practically the same..
Justifying such comments with something like the classic hype around tiny packaging changes and people whipping others into a frenzy to buy the 2020 because the 2021 is ‘weak sauce’ is a very simple way to get rid of the problem.
Of course, on many occasions this position will justify this many times, but not always, far from it!
On the other hand, as you are explaining here, the maceration or aging of the perfumes - according to what you comment - it is impossible that it is the reason for said changes in the fragrances; you are pointing it out yourself now.
If French Lover or L'Air Desert du Marocain had excellent projection and longevity during the first years of their release, and people smelled them then and years later the projection and longevity were no longer the same, it is not a question of maceration.
And it is not a question that time passes and memory idealizes, of subjectivity and others, no; that is, again, a classic justification that may be doable some of the time, but not all of it.
I remember very well how those fragrances smelled then (as well as several of my friends) and how they smell now.
I don't think Malle or Tauer had been macerating the fragrances for 5 or 9 years before launching them on the market! does anyone believe it? So during the first years users would be buying "fresh" bottles.
And if, later, after 5 or 6 years they buy the same fragrance again, this new bottle could be one of two: or "fresh" or a somewhat older bottle that was stored for a longer time.
In any of these 2 cases, and taking into account the general assumption that maceration or aging improves or gives more "body" to some scents, this automatically stops explaining the reason of the change mentioned by many users!
Because taking in consideration only the "maceration" variable the fragrance would smell the same or better.
Therefore, if the representative of a brand or a perfumer tells you that "maybe it needs maceration, it could be possible that a few months the perfume smell better / more powerful" or something similar is telling you a solemn foolishness!
She/he's right, yes, but he's not really explaining the reason for the problem to you.
I really understand that the world of perfume is a complicated world and sometimes I think that in certain cases the only thing that brands have left is lie to their customers, they have no other option (unless they want to risk thaving worse sales...but in this industry, few or no people do things "for art's sake").
Hearing "maceration" or "aging" is a friendlier fuzzy concept than "ingredient sourcing issues", "cost cutting" or "deliberate weakening".
When, for example, great composers write their musical works, creativity and inspiration are very important.
Also luck, the possibility of "finding" something at random or by pure chance that helps them reach great heights.
But it also takes a lot of work and effort, and tests, and removals, additions, remakings... In the end, everything is written on a score.
A perfume also has its score.
And leaving aside the somewhat mystical or romantic idea of the perfumer as an alchemist in her/his laboratory trying to create the holy grail, here many people are only interested in the fragrance they like - the one they sell around the world and have become sold practically unchanged for several years, those produced by the great laboratories of the industry - do not have such abominable variations or changes.
Here I am talking about concrete facts in reference to certain fragrances and what are happening right now and can be traced.
In recent Aventus and L'Air Desert du Marocain threads you can get an idea.
I mention these two because they are the most recent (I also do not want to "victimize" them because I am sure there are more cases).
But this is not new; what is something newer is to bring up the issue of "maceration" - by some sources- , and that was the reason for opening this thread.
Yes, it is true that these facts are "simply" the statements of many people in this regard and, as such, one can agree more or less (the typical "is their word against mine").
Many of them are users who bought the fragrance years ago and when buying it now they denote difference, mainly in projection and longevity.
Here in Basenotes - but not only here - we are seeing cases of people who do not know each other, who live in different countries, who ignore the comments of others and who write practically the same..
Justifying such comments with something like the classic hype around tiny packaging changes and people whipping others into a frenzy to buy the 2020 because the 2021 is ‘weak sauce’ is a very simple way to get rid of the problem.
Of course, on many occasions this position will justify this many times, but not always, far from it!
On the other hand, as you are explaining here, the maceration or aging of the perfumes - according to what you comment - it is impossible that it is the reason for said changes in the fragrances; you are pointing it out yourself now.
If French Lover or L'Air Desert du Marocain had excellent projection and longevity during the first years of their release, and people smelled them then and years later the projection and longevity were no longer the same, it is not a question of maceration.
And it is not a question that time passes and memory idealizes, of subjectivity and others, no; that is, again, a classic justification that may be doable some of the time, but not all of it.
I remember very well how those fragrances smelled then (as well as several of my friends) and how they smell now.
I don't think Malle or Tauer had been macerating the fragrances for 5 or 9 years before launching them on the market! does anyone believe it? So during the first years users would be buying "fresh" bottles.
And if, later, after 5 or 6 years they buy the same fragrance again, this new bottle could be one of two: or "fresh" or a somewhat older bottle that was stored for a longer time.
In any of these 2 cases, and taking into account the general assumption that maceration or aging improves or gives more "body" to some scents, this automatically stops explaining the reason of the change mentioned by many users!
Because taking in consideration only the "maceration" variable the fragrance would smell the same or better.
Therefore, if the representative of a brand or a perfumer tells you that "maybe it needs maceration, it could be possible that a few months the perfume smell better / more powerful" or something similar is telling you a solemn foolishness!
She/he's right, yes, but he's not really explaining the reason for the problem to you.
I really understand that the world of perfume is a complicated world and sometimes I think that in certain cases the only thing that brands have left is lie to their customers, they have no other option (unless they want to risk thaving worse sales...but in this industry, few or no people do things "for art's sake").
Hearing "maceration" or "aging" is a friendlier fuzzy concept than "ingredient sourcing issues", "cost cutting" or "deliberate weakening".
When, for example, great composers write their musical works, creativity and inspiration are very important.
Also luck, the possibility of "finding" something at random or by pure chance that helps them reach great heights.
But it also takes a lot of work and effort, and tests, and removals, additions, remakings... In the end, everything is written on a score.
A perfume also has its score.
And leaving aside the somewhat mystical or romantic idea of the perfumer as an alchemist in her/his laboratory trying to create the holy grail, here many people are only interested in the fragrance they like - the one they sell around the world and have become sold practically unchanged for several years, those produced by the great laboratories of the industry - do not have such abominable variations or changes.
Last edited:
- Nov 27, 2020
Yes, indeed. I think its actually visitation of the serendipitous 'charism' that all the preparation, training and hard work are seeking to attract, simply by providing the right landing conditions.
- Nov 27, 2020
I do
- Jul 12, 2021
- Thread starter
- #17
Glad to hear that.
May I know if you sell your fragrances to the public? I would like to know your brand or if you have a website ... or is it a more private project?
Thanks
- Nov 27, 2020
Yes I do, but I didn't come here to spruik my business, merely to read the comments, and from an artistic perspective, just chip in a little bit. Its a very good thread-root, thank you for initiating the discussion. Thank you for asking.
Last edited:
- Jun 28, 2009
Last edited:
- Dec 18, 2011
I've always wondered if that's how something like L'Air du Desert Marocain was created, as I can't imagine someone having its smell in mind and then consciously setting out to create it. How do you create something you've never smelled? But then, that's the way with many fragrances, I suppose. I envision messing around with some notes and then stumbling onto something amazing by pure luck/chance. Must be great fun when it happens. 🙂
Currently Wearing: Orage by Louis Vuitton
- Jul 20, 2017
I couldn’t bring myself to tell him.
I’m sure there have been many on both sides - some which have an exact olfactory vision like chipping away the marble until what they imagined is real in front of them. Others which work seeing where inspiration leads them. And many in between. LADDM is fantastic but you would have to ask Andy how much of the scent he had in mind before he began. What he created is a remarkable fragrance either way. The story of how Fahrenheit came into existence is an interesting one. Quite fortuitous for Dior.
—
To the OP I’ll just say being curious and sceptical isn’t a bad thing. You don’t have to be hostile towards those trying to answer your question. If you don’t want to believe what others tell you, which I’m not saying you should, maybe spend some time trying things for yourself, exploring and learning and after some time you might come to your own realisations about fragrances and what you think about maceration.
Last edited:
Currently Wearing: Bon Monsieur by Rogue Perfumery
- Jul 12, 2021
- Thread starter
- #22
Thanks for the info.
The truth is that the name really sounded like something to me; Now I'll sound like a cynic or ignorant for saying that, but it's the truth.
Now being off-topic, as far as the subject of creativity and creations, it is something fascinating.
How can you create something that has never been smelled? Well, I think that's one of the foundations of creativity ... how were microchips invented for example? How was Wagner able to capture an entire musical universe that had never been heard before? How Jules Verne could imagine so many things in his books that had not yet been created?
The flashes of inspiration that hit you like lightning, intuitions, hunches, luck, a simple chance that marks the way are often important aspects in art and creation; they can be the germs of something wonderful.
But I reiterate - and it is my opinion - I do not think that it is only that, I do not believe that any great creation (Tauer L'Air or Fahrenheit is mentioned here) is simply the cause of a wonderful coincidence - for me this is overly mythologizing the concept of creation: there is work, often arduous, behind.
I think it was Picasso who said that "Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working."
Sheik Yerbouti, it was very ugly of me to have mentioned you and not to write your name.
Writing my message I left it at the end because I wanted to write your name well and I forgot; I'm sorry.
I also apologize if my message has seemed hostile in any way, it was not my intention and I am sorry.
Your message has made me realize some things that I hadn't realized before.
On the other hand, I don't think anyone can believe what everyone says when some positions are completely opposite.
I am aware that most of them enrich but also that you cannot marry 50 people at the same time, but they are all part of your learning.
Now in general, without personal allusions: I am completely useless and quite an ignorant person, I already mentioned it in the opening post. And it is quite possible that most of the things I say are not true or not at all true; But if this is the case, it would be natural for someone to point out my faults and mistakes with facts and verified information.
It is something enriching; just discussion and debate, not fights.
I do not really understand that type of fans who declaim in certain threads something like: "we are back with the rubbish of the topic of reformulations, is it that it will never end?" or that if a handful of Basenoters talk about how x fragrance has changed, they must be paranoid, as if flat earthers or people who think the moon is a hologram were talking here.
Reformulations are part of the industry, everyone knows that, I do not understand why certain opinions of that style sometimes have to be stigmatized, or questioned - at least until proven otherwise.
I don't go around saying to those who think that Ebene Fumee is a masterpiece that they are paranoid, I don't know why it should be like that here.
If I even believe that Serge Lutens or some top boss of the "niche" industry said a long time ago that they reformulated perfumes every 2-3 years ...
For the moment, I think that the now-so-popular topic of maceration is a mere story, a strategy rather than filing the edges of a reality that a client cannot get to know 100% because otherwise the level of sales and popularity could suffer.
And sometimes the cause of this type of "paranoia" that is "mounted" many times in the perfume forums is the industry itself and its opacity, which is part of its idiosyncrasy.
How curious that the human sense of smell is the most elusive and mysterious of the senses and the perfume industry is - or at least it seems - the most elusive and mysterious of industries.
What you can't do is have it all.
I mean, a Rothko or a Picasso is not mass-produced around the world. They are something unique, and this is one of the reasons why they have so much value and a lithograph - to follow the same example - has less.
If a perfume brand treats and creates its perfumes under an artistic concept, surely this brand is not very large, does not produce a large number of bottles, its distribution is limited, its production is "artisan" to a certain extent, its launches will not be very numerous and its fragrances are complex, rich in natural oils and changing.
And even probably in this case the issue of maceration would be something to take more into account.
But what cannot be is a brand that tries to identify itself with this concept and then wants to sell thousands and thousands of bottles around the world, launch a bunch of fragrances per year, and have millionaire sales; that's impossible.
Last edited:
- Dec 1, 2021
Indeed, maceration is an important step in perfumery but the best answer for your question as why the smell is not the same is:
LEGISLATION😉
They are not permitted to use the strong sealants they were using in the past as all those chemicals were very toxic. Concerning this point, perfumers found new ways to seal the scent for longer, for example by using pinocembrin, I saw another user here talking about Lust for redolence.
Currently Wearing: Dauntless by Lust for Redolence
- Apr 2, 2021
Dior Homme, reformulated by Francois Demachy in 2011, is stronger, denser, and has longer longevity than Hedi's original intention. This was partly a marketing decision because the original 2005 formulation was not commercial enough.
- Jul 12, 2021
- Thread starter
- #25
Thanks smelted; Your post has intrigued me;
If you could elaborate more or share a link about that I would appreciate it.When you say "use the strong sealants they were using in the past"... in the past but how many years ago do you mean?
Well imm0rtelle, there are always exceptions that prove the rule; Don't you think that in most cases what I have mentioned usually happens, or you totally disagree with my point of view??
On the other hand, I know that Dior Homme is a fragrance that you know a lot about, and the case of Dior Homme is a bit "special": you know that it has gone through many variations and in practically most of the perfume database they have a different link: Dior Homme 2005, Dior Homme 2011, Dior Homme 2020 ... they are classified as different fragrances.
- Dec 1, 2021
Glad I have an intriguing effect on you!😃https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...IQFnoECAcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2Gb_nzhwdwHPKU4LJlxgk3
You can type on Google: list of banned materials in fragrances 2019....
For example they limited the use of galaxolide a lot, oackmoss as well...the list is huge. And, I was talking about pinocembrin, when I've heard about that London house that they use this flavonoid, I have tried using in some of my amateur very small projects, and...I was pretty dissapointed, it is a very weird material to work with...al my perfumes turned milky white, they must have another way to extract the stuff in order to add it in the blend.🙄🤔 I used alcohol extraction.
Currently Wearing: Dauntless by Lust for Redolence
- Apr 2, 2021
It was just an opportunity to flex my Hedi Slimane-related fragrance knowledge since you asked to be corrected if there were any exceptions to this general rule.
If I think deep, then I also remember people talking about Guerlain fragrances that were initially reformulated to be significantly worse, and how Thierry Wasser took a lot of effort to reformulating them again to make them better than the previous reformulations.
I evaluate fragrances on a case-by-case basis and try not to let the fact it isn't the original formulation to affect my evaluation of it. If the current formulation still smells fantastic to me, then I will consider it as a contender to add to my wardrobe.
However, I'm a firm believer that the first formulation is always going to be the truest form of the fragrance. That said, time for another anecdote for an Hedi Slimane-related fragrance, Bois d'Argent. I first started getting into fragrance in 2015, and by that time Bois d'Argent has been reformulated at least once by Francois Demachy. When I smelled a decant of it, I was appalled at how animalic and urine-like it was. It felt like someone snuck in piss in the decant to troll me. I initially wrote it off as something to not add to my wardrobe until I had the opportunity to try Hedi Slimane's original version of Bois d'Argent, formulated by Annick Menardo. I fell head over heels for the original formulation, and had to have it. However, because it is so beautiful and elegant, I sometimes struggle to find it matching my presentation when I wear very casual outfits like t-shirt, jeans, and dirty sneakers. Recently, I've had an opportunity to try the current formulation of Bois d'Argent in store, and while it is still more animalic and denser than Hedi's original version, it wasn't bad at all. Francois' current formulation felt edgier, more masculine, denser and more versatile than Annick's original formulation. I wouldn't be mad owning both in my wardrobe.
- Nov 26, 2006
"Maceration" as I've known it defined means dissolving a material in a solvent : for example, in traditional enfleurage, one would first macerate jasmine petals in a solvent, such as hexane, then evaporate the solvent to leave a solid concrete, which includes the plant waxes, or further refine it to an absolute, with the waxes removed. I don't see how, once the juice is in the bottle, anything resembling actual maceration occurs. I'm guessing it's just a word people use to mean some magic happening that can't quite be explained with a more exact term.
*edited to note that perfumers also use the term to mean ingredients undergoing reaction with one another within the bottle until a desired equilibrium is reached, see this thread: https://basenotes.com/threads/what-happens-during-maceration.431599/#post-4005456
*edited to note that perfumers also use the term to mean ingredients undergoing reaction with one another within the bottle until a desired equilibrium is reached, see this thread: https://basenotes.com/threads/what-happens-during-maceration.431599/#post-4005456
Currently Wearing: Stilettos on Lex by Jul et Mad
- Oct 17, 2012
My only true experience with maceration is letting a little air in the bottle with the first few wears, and the subsequent subtle oxidation seems to help the fragrance 'open up' a bit and get more potent.
Granted, after 6 months or so, this isn't night and day, but my Mancera Cedrat Boise and a few others did smell a tiny bit stronger six months to a year after first use.
Is this a mind trick? Maybe. I'm flesh and blood, not a GCMS machine. Should you be required to wait a year to fully experience a new perfume purchase? Hell no. Life is too short, many of us are already past the half-time show of our lives so every month or year is precious.
Wasting time waiting to enjoy perfume is not something we should need to do, let alone be ASKED to do by brands selling it to us. That's just utterly ridiculous and unacceptable.
Granted, after 6 months or so, this isn't night and day, but my Mancera Cedrat Boise and a few others did smell a tiny bit stronger six months to a year after first use.
Is this a mind trick? Maybe. I'm flesh and blood, not a GCMS machine. Should you be required to wait a year to fully experience a new perfume purchase? Hell no. Life is too short, many of us are already past the half-time show of our lives so every month or year is precious.
Wasting time waiting to enjoy perfume is not something we should need to do, let alone be ASKED to do by brands selling it to us. That's just utterly ridiculous and unacceptable.
Currently Wearing: Globe by Rochas
- Jul 16, 2004
I owned the MPG Secrete Datura in the nymph bottle. Some years later there was a sale in Le Senteurs and 100mls £35, so I jumped and bought it. Decided to try even though my original bottle not finished. I was shocked to find the new bottle smelt like lemon Pledge(a lemon smelling furniture polish), nothing like my older bottle. Put it away and about two years later tried the new bottle again, and it had darkened in colour and did smell how Secrete Datura should smell.
Currently Wearing: Ligea "La Sirena" by Carthusia
- Oct 27, 2016
Nice one!!! Also makes me think of that episode of Top Gear where they tested the reliant and Jeremy kept tipping over everywhere he went....
Currently Wearing: Oscar for Men by Oscar de la Renta
Similar threads
Latest News
-
Ever wondered what Mario's Princess Peach smells like? Well, it's peach...Lush have teamed up with Nintendo to create a bunch of Mario themed...- Grant Osborne
- Updated:
-
17th Basenotes Perfume Awards Finalists AnnouncedWe've totalled up the rankings for 2022's best fragrances, and...
- Grant Osborne
- Updated:
-
Rose Revival by & Other Stories is back& Other Stories have relaunched one of their debut fragrances, Rose...
- Grant Osborne
- Updated:
-
Fame Blooming Pink now available in UK's Perfume ShopPaco Rabanne's Fame Blooming Pink is now available in the UK at The...
- Grant Osborne
- Updated:
-
Acqua di Parma teams with Samuel Cross to launch limited edition bottleAcqua di Parma have invited designer, Dr Samuel Ross of SR_A to create...
- Grant Osborne
- Updated:
-
Poof! is Bruno Fazzolari's first Fzotic scent in three yearsLast week, perfumer and Fzotic founder, Bruno Fazzolari, launched Poof...
- Grant Osborne
- Updated: