Macerate ?

[thatmakesscents]

I recently purchased a bottle of Knize 10 from LuckyScent and it seemed really weak to me. When I called today the SA mentioned that it may be a fresh batch and will need to maserate (settle) for a while.

I've never heard of this before. How many of you have encountered this and what were your experiences with the note changes ?

Thanks

* My spelling is completely off for maserate. Can someone please correct me ?

 

[hednic]

Re: Maserate ?

* My spelling is completely off for maserate. Can someone please correct me ?

I believe it's spelled macerate.

 

[thatmakesscents]

Re: Maserate ?

I believe it's spelled macerate.

Yes.

Thank You

 

[Roper-Hall]

Re: Maserate ?

I doubt that Knize would send a product to market if it weren't fully ready. I wouldn't classify Knize 10 as a robust perfume, but it is certainly loaded with staying power.

 

[dollars&scents]

Re: Maserate ?

It sounds like Le Labo's shtick about maceration is in vogue.
It's a bunch of hogwash.

 

[lovingthealien]

Re: Maserate ?

Perfume really does need 2-4 weeks to macerate after it's been mixed with alcohol. Perfumes tend to become better and deeper as time goes on. One can observe this easily when making a tincture of an absolute or EO. Time makes all the difference, even after the initial maceration time.

With such a small company like Knize, I would not at all be surprised if they sent out their blends before they're allowed to age in the bottle. They really don't produce much product, you know. I do think your problem might be a bad batch. What is the batch number on yours? Mine is CH. 17164. Very recent and very very strong.

D&S - If Le Labo really does blend their fragrances to order, then they really do need to macerate.

 

[heperd]

What do they mean by macerate? What specifically happens? I bet they cannot answer that. Le Labo does mix every bottle when ordered. Whould would a concentrate that is diluted by alcohol and water be made to change after being mixed with the diluents?? Sounds like something they tell you to get you off the phone.

OP- have you smelled K10 before? maybe you just think it should be stronger. You seems to be having a lot of trouble lately with lots of frags also, so maybe there is nothing wrong with it.

 

[lovingthealien]

Hep, there is a time frame in which the alcohol smells very strong and the fragrant isolates are very weak just after a fragrance is blended. Maceration means just what it says - the fragrant molecules become more dispersed in the alcohol solution and the mixture as a whole becomes more homogenous. This is a real aspect of perfumery and not just another mythical phenomenon invented by Le Labo.

 

[jamwires]

Yeah maceration is definitely a truth. I've had numerous bottles get much deeper and stronger with time.

 

[thatmakesscents]

Re: Maserate ?

I do think your problem might be a bad batch. What is the batch number on yours? Mine is CH. 17164.

I have the same batch number. My bottle that was gifted to me prior to this one was also the same batch number. It was very strong.

- - - Updated - - -

OP- have you smelled K10 before? maybe you just think it should be stronger. You seems to be having a lot of trouble lately with lots of frags also, so maybe there is nothing wrong with it.

You are correct. I have had troubles with several fragrances lately. Previously I was playing around with the lower cost scents. Those vary greatly in quality so that had a lot to do with it.

I have also purchased some great fragrances recently :

Coromandel

Knize 10 Golden Edition

Oscar De La Renta Por Lui

Farenheit

Eau Sauvage Parfum - ruined a few bottles in the refirgerator

Escencia by Loewe

I have nothing but praise for most of them. The fragrances are well made and last on the skin.

The only thing I can think of is I've gotten used to the Golden Edition. The GE radiates on me for several hours. It is a real beauty. When something is good it is good. There usually is no question about it.


Anyway they told me I can send it back to them when I return from my trip and they will test it.

I would rather not get into these situations.....

 

[heperd]

Hep, there is a time frame in which the alcohol smells very strong and the fragrant isolates are very weak just after a fragrance is blended. Maceration means just what it says - the fragrant molecules become more dispersed in the alcohol solution and the mixture as a whole becomes more homogenous. This is a real aspect of perfumery and not just another mythical phenomenon invented by Le Labo.

That explanation is good enough for me. That means Le Labo is not making anything up. Ive watched one the guy at the Le Labo booth mix up some Oud 27. He showed me the chart that they use. Its like 8.4grams of concentrate plus water and alcohol per 100ml bottle. I got to peek into the fridge also containing all of the amber jars of concentrate. Potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of ingredients sitting in a little fridge in the middle of Saks......

I guess I should go smell my Rose 31 now. When I first got it I could not smell the cumin very strong and I loved it. Hopefully the "maceration process" does not make the cumin note stronger and make me not like it.

 

[Joe C]

Everybody maserates.

 

[starshipvelcro]

Re: Maserate ?

It sounds like Le Labo's shtick about maceration is in vogue.
It's a bunch of hogwash.

I've noticed changes to my Le Labo's in the short amount of time I've had them. They've only gotten better, Santal 33 especially.

 

[Nexus6]

My bottle of L'air du Dessert Marocain smells much better now than it did when I bought it some two and a half years ago.
So yeah, some fragrances become better over time.

 

[dollars&scents]

An interesting thread has already explored this maceration phenomenon: http://www.basenotes.net/threads/297133-Rose-31-doesnt-smell-the-same

And, included therein at Post 38 the OP copied a relevant letter from Le Labo, which follows ↓↓↓:

I figured you all would be interested in Le Labo's response to my inquiry. Here is the response i received from

Thank you very much for sharing your concern with us.

My guess is the difference you notice may be related to the maceration process. Perfumes just like wine change over time and need to macerate for a few weeks after the bottling process. While you can wear your perfume as soon as you leave the store, it will be at his best after a few weeks, after the ingredients "sit" together for a while and gain volume that way.
In our case, the maceration process starts when we compound the perfume (we mix alcohol to essential oils) in our boutique when a client places an order ( versus maturation which is the process of aging of oils together, before the alcohol addition).
It means that you are comparing 2 bottles of Rose 31 with different periods of maceration. If you have a very good nose (as seems to be the case) and know the perfume quite well, you might notice a subtle difference. It should however be less and less noticeable over time.

Also, our teams follow the same strict protocol when compounding a perfume therefore the concentration does not vary from one location to the other.

Yet I would be happy to have one of our founders check your perfume’s olfactive integrity if you still think our explanation about the maceration would not explain the drastic difference you are experiencing and your guess is that there is something else wrong in the formula.

Please feel free to send your bottle to:

Le Labo fragrances
Attn.: Gaelle
233 Elizabeth Street
New York, NY 10012

We hope you will find this option convenient and we thank you again for contacting us.

All the best,



I agree with her comments and have heard of this line getting better over time, however I have had this bottle for almost 16 weeks, so that suprasses the 2-3 week maturation process. It may get better over time, who knows, but there is also an "expiration date" listed of 12 months. I emailed her back asking for an explanation on the experiation date, and if it really goes bad....I cant imagine that being the case, since my Rose 31 from previous flacon is over a year and smells great.

I'm not sure at this point if i'm going to go through the trouble of sending it back, unless i knew i was going to get a refill or a new bottle. I would be pretty upset if i sent them the bottle and they send it right back saying it was fine. So i'm not sure...

Likewise contained in the above-referenced thread, you will find additional gobbledygook about Le Labo's expiration dates, inter alia.

Quite a shtick, indeed.

 

[silverbullet]

Re: Maserate ?

It sounds like Le Labo's shtick about maceration is in vogue.
It's a bunch of hogwash.

I'll second that.

 

[the_tourist]

I ordered a bottle of Escentric 01 from Lucky Scent last Summer and got the same explanation from them when I found the fragrance to be flat and short-lived. They graciously sent me one of their tester bottles, which was slightly better, but I ended up returning it and buying a partial bottle from someone who'd previously sold me a decant. I'm not sure how old this bottle is, but the idea of sitting to hope and wait for a fragrance to be ready is just annoying... especially given the cost involved and the fact that you typically can't return them if they don't evolve properly.

 

[Beranium Chotato]

Re: Maserate ?

It sounds like Le Labo's shtick about maceration is in vogue.
It's a bunch of hogwash.

Actually, in the case of Le Labo, it is not hogwash. All fragrances must macerate after the alcohol is added, and since Le Labo mixes the fragrance and alcohol at the time of purchase, the maceration process begins when you carry it out of the store. Why they do this is beyond me, but it is factually correct that any just-mixed perfume will be whiffy with alcohol for a period of several weeks until it macerates. They are very up-front about this at Le Labo when you purchase a scent from them.

For any other brand that is mixed before purchase, including Knize and Escentric Molecules, your expectation as a consumer should be that the fragrance is pre-macerated. If it has not been pre-macerated, it can be considered defective.

There are many other reactions and forms of decay that will happen to a fragrance in a bottle subsequent to maceration. Some aromatic ingredients deepen in intensity as they age, almost like a cognac. Most aromatic ingredients are volatile and will take on sharp off-notes or burn off altogether. The combination of these processes will vary from scent to scent, and whether the effects will be appealing or not are subjective. Most frequently what people will perceive is a sort of "deepening," but it should be noted that this has nothing to do with maceration. The changes you might perceive in the range of months and years are the consequences of aging and decay.

 

[Rüssel]

Re: Maserate ?

Surely it should be sold at a reduced price then, like those ripen at home fruits you get in shops.

 

[Beranium Chotato]

I'll suggest that next time.

 

[thenoseyartist]

Re: Maserate ?

It's very true, I just opened a blend that I made over a year ago and stored away because at the time it smelled horrible but I want to look back and check my progress as a perfumer, today after a year and three months it smells beautiful and now I'll finish the fragrance and let it macerate again

 

[Dunpeal]

Several of my bottles have gotten better over time...

 

[Bigsly]

QUOTE: ...Like wines, perfumes have to age in large containers to come into their own. This is even truer if one uses lots of natural ingredients or lots of rich base notes. (An Eau de Cologne requires less maceration than heavy Chypres, for instance).

Every “classic” used to be macerated for a period between 4 and 8 weeks. Some mass-market companies eliminated this practice in the 80’s, to increase money flow. Once we are done developing a perfume, we always decide on an aging protocol for it with its author. Some perfumers favor long maturation (aging the perfume concentrate before mixing it with alcohol), others prefer long maceration (aging the finished solution).

Portrait of a Lady, for instance, matured for 2 weeks and macerated for 4- a 6-week aging process in total. When working with fresh lab samples, one notices that they are much less powerful, less beautiful, and often less stable, than properly aged products. Time and mass are critical. As a rule of thumb, we find that one must manufacture a minimum of 5 Kg of concentrate at a time to get the extra body needed in a perfume. UNQUOTE.

https://www.fredericmalle.com/customer-service-about-our-products

 

[Deleted member 13385235]

Noticed it quite a few times when walking on the niche side. As mentioned Aventus is prime in this but I did notice the same effect with LADDM too.