Long-lasting fragrance (probably to make myself)

DynV

New member
Jul 7, 2022
I've been trying perfumes/fragrances/scents for men every-time I go to a store that sells one for months. It seems unless a perfume is on sale, not eau-de-toilette nor eau-de-cologne nor any such diluted product, it seems I won't find anything to my liking. Everything except perfume, which is expensive, doesn't last long; 6 hrs after application I--barely--can smell it (meaning I do for perfume).

My main concern is masking body odor, being slightly more attractive by smelling nice is an added benefit that is significantly lesser of a priority. I'm hoping that either I can find something affordable that can do that, or find some kind of kit to learn how to do my own fragrance. I've read that there's 3 levels to make a perfume, the 1st lasting ~15 mins, the 2nd ~45 mins, finally the 3rd lasting hours; I'm mainly interested in the 3rd, perhaps the 2nd, but unless I somehow decide to sell it (which would imply being able to make a profit from it which I doubt I'd be able to), I wouldn't be interested in the 1st kind at all.

I must admit that being able to make my own fragrance seem like a good way to save money, and if I'd become sufficiently good at it, being able to make variations to my "taste". Although if I'd learn of a cheap way to mask BO even if it cost a bit more than making it myself, I'd be happy with it. I suspect I'll end up with the former.

Thank you kindly for your feedback
 

RSG

Basenotes Junkie
Nov 26, 2016
This is one of the reasons I got into perfumery. One of many but basically hate that anything cheap smelled bad to me, even mid-range like Le Male BLECH! Liking things that were 300$ per bottle despite knowing there was a 4000% markup. If your only goal is to make something nice smelling and long-lasting that's an easy enough nut to crack. Figuring out how to design to your own taste takes a long time depending on your perceptiveness and orderliness about your trials.
 

mnitabach

Basenotes Dependent
Nov 13, 2020
Trying to learn perfumery from the ground up in order to "save money" on perfume is beyond absurd. If that is truly your goal, your best bet is to keep trying niche perfumes (many priced more reasonably than designer stuff) until you find one you like at an acceptable price. A good place to start is the Luckyscent website, who sell samples at reasonable prices.
 

ourmess

Basenotes Junkie
Apr 25, 2018
6 hrs after application I--barely--can smell it
None of your senses detect things; rather they detect changes in things. Your sense of smell may have stopped noticing a fragrance after its smell hasn't changed for several hours, but other people around you may still be able to smell it.
My main concern is masking body odor
Deodorant will be far more effective here as it's a purpose-built product (whereas fragrances have their own scents, but aren't specifically built to neutralize or prevent a different scent).
I've read that there's 3 levels to make a perfume, the 1st lasting ~15 mins, the 2nd ~45 mins, finally the 3rd lasting hours
That's not really how it works at all. The properties of a fragrance come from the properties of the materials that it's made with. Many beginning perfumers will make short-lived fragrances because they're 1) using short-lived materials like essential oils, and 2) don't yet have the skill and experience to understand the interactions between materials which impact tenacity and lifetime.
I must admit that being able to make my own fragrance seem like a good way to save money
It's actually extremely far in the opposite direction. Perfumery is a fun, endlessly fascinating, and creatively fulfilling hobby and if it's your passion then you'll definitely enjoy getting into it! But it is neither quick nor cheap, "several years and hundreds of dollars" is essentially the baseline minimum before you'll probably make anything that works the way you intend. If you're not specifically interested in making fragrances then buying them is much, much cheaper.
 

DynV

New member
Jul 7, 2022
I like that one as well.
your only goal is to make something nice smelling and long-lasting
I also mentioned in my last paragraph that being able to customize was nice as well (but not as nice as saving money for something I find acceptable-smelling that last a long time).
how to design to your own taste takes a long time depending on your perceptiveness and orderliness about your trials.
I don't need anything perfect to my "taste", I'd just like to end up with my top 3, or top 5, relatively quickly; from then I don't mind if it takes months.
trying niche perfumes
The only kinds I found were
  1. bottom-of-the-barrel (ie names sounding somewhat close to an established one)
  2. something smelling ok but are mainly made by celebrities, that I find in great number right before holiday, but I never found a perfume of such kind (thus eau-de-toilette, eau-de-cologne, and such diluted product), that I can usually find on sale soon after those times they're stocked in great number
  3. perfume of somewhat well-known brands (I've only been to another large city once and almost everything was closed (it was a bus transfer at night))
so there very well be multiple well-known brands that we don't carry here (although I doubt it as we have a relative large number of visitors here (I'd say mainly for our relaxed drinking & cannabis laws))
A good place to start is the Luckyscent website, who sell samples at reasonable prices.
I'll see where this thread leads before doing that. I must admit if I can learn how to do a long-lasting perfume I relatively like relatively cheaply, I'd prefer that, but am not stuck on that.
 

mnitabach

Basenotes Dependent
Nov 13, 2020
I like that one as well.

I also mentioned in my last paragraph that being able to customize was nice as well (but not as nice as saving money for something I find acceptable-smelling that last a long time).

I don't need anything perfect to my "taste", I'd just like to end up with my top 3, or top 5, relatively quickly; from then I don't mind if it takes months.

The only kinds I found were
  1. bottom-of-the-barrel (ie names sounding somewhat close to an established one)
  2. something smelling ok but are mainly made by celebrities, that I find in great number right before holiday, but I never found a perfume of such kind (thus eau-de-toilette, eau-de-cologne, and such diluted product), that I can usually find on sale soon after those times they're stocked in great number
  3. perfume of somewhat well-known brands (I've only been to another large city once and almost everything was closed (it was a bus transfer at night))
so there very well be multiple well-known brands that we don't carry here (although I doubt it as we have a relative large number of visitors here (I'd say mainly for our relaxed drinking & cannabis laws))

I'll see where this thread leads before doing that. I must admit if I can learn how to do a long-lasting perfume I relatively like relatively cheaply, I'd prefer that, but am not stuck on that.
The likelihood that you can "learn how to do a long-lasting perfume I relatively like relatively cheaply" without at least several years of time-consuming and expensive effort is near zero, as multiple people have already pointed out. However, as has also been already pointed out, investing such time, effort, and expense can be ENORMOUSLY rewarding. But you absolutely have to be inclined to enjoy the journey, not just the destination.
 

DynV

New member
Jul 7, 2022
Buy deoderant.
Deodorant will be far more effective here as it's a purpose-built product
You both replied while I was doing my previous post. I wear anti-antiperspirant soon after taken a shower not long before I leave home (ie 5 mins after shower which I've taken 2 hrs before leaving), I should wear deodorant on top of that?!
neutralize or prevent a different scent
My thought was to overpower it, or close to (ie 2/3 of the strength of the body odor)
That's not really how it works at all. The properties of a fragrance come from the properties of the materials that it's made with. Many beginning perfumers will make short-lived fragrances because they're 1) using short-lived materials like essential oils, and 2) don't yet have the skill and experience to understand the interactions between materials which impact tenacity and lifetime.
What I wrote about that was from preliminary research. Since I haven't order a perfume-making kit (or am sure I'll do so), I haven't done serious research.
Perfumery is a fun, endlessly fascinating, and creatively fulfilling hobby and if it's your passion then you'll definitely enjoy getting into it! But it is neither quick nor cheap, "several years and hundreds of dollars" is essentially the baseline minimum before you'll probably make anything that works the way you intend. If you're not specifically interested in making fragrances then buying them is much, much cheaper.
I don't need to make perfect-to-me fragrances, something not too far from that is sufficient. Taking a sport analogy: I don't need to be pro neither semi-pro, I don't even need to be a regional amateur champion, being in the team of the regional amateur champion is fine by me.
 

DynV

New member
Jul 7, 2022
The likelihood that you can "learn how to do a long-lasting perfume I relatively like relatively cheaply" without at least several years of time-consuming and expensive effort is near zero, as multiple people have already pointed out.
You replied while I was making a post, please see the last thing I wrote to ourmess (~2 mins ago).
 

mnitabach

Basenotes Dependent
Nov 13, 2020
You replied while I was making a post, please see the last thing I wrote to ourmess (~2 mins ago).
Developing sufficient perfumery expertise for "being in the team of the regional amateur champion" requires at least a few thousand hours of effort and multiple hundreds to thousands of US dollars of expense.
 

Jolieo

Basenotes Dependent
Feb 18, 2018
The only way that you might be able to make a perfume is either getting a formula here- or buying one online- but you will not know if the formula is to your liking , or any good
this hobby is an intellectual pursuit- and something tangible
the amount of materials you can buy are in the hundreds- and if one beats the bushes or becomes professional, thousands
Each one of those materials reacts and preforms in its own way- and then reacts to other materials in its own way-so it isn’t linear where you add citrus , rose and woods to get a citrus floral woodsy scent- maybe you get that- maybe you get mud- maybe it doesn’t last- or maybe it’s perfect
only way to know is to put it together- and if you come close the slightest change can make it tumble- so it is very accurate recording of materials- in small amounts( because who is made out of money) over and over again
also because your brain has never encountered these aromas - many times you will have no perception of a material, or a distorted one- because when you smell now it’s isn’t to give an imprint of an exact material- you will have to learn them all like people
 

RSG

Basenotes Junkie
Nov 26, 2016
Scenthusiasm has a nice formula called Hammerfell if I remember right? It smells a bit feminine to me but when I wore my own rendition women loved it. My dad called it a "panty dropper". Smells like woody lemony cookies?
 

DynV

New member
Jul 7, 2022
Are there formulas that share elements that I could use to experiment with along the lines of what I mentioned in the OP? ie 5 elements and each formula use at least 3 of them. If so, approximately how much would a kit for a complete beginner cost?
 

Saraiva

Basenotes Member
May 26, 2018
Are there formulas that share elements that I could use to experiment with along the lines of what I mentioned in the OP? ie 5 elements and each formula use at least 3 of them. If so, approximately how much would a kit for a complete beginner cost?
Hello DynV
Goodnight
You can start by experimenting with just one molecule and gradually try to combine two, then three, and so on.
There are also molecules that by themselves have a pleasant smell like Timbersilk, a variation of Iso E Super which has a cedar note, Ambrox or Ambroxan, or even Ambroxide which is the same molecule from different manufacturers is an artificial amber, which they say is part Ambar Gris, Cedramber for those who like wood and amber, for those who like maritime notes Calone or Cascalone (my favourite), which is a variation of Calone but sweeter, for a fruity scent use for example Cassis Base 345B.
Don't buy too many products, at most 20, looking within each type for some more interesting ones.
But first you have to think about which specific type you prefer, don't buy without knowing the note you want.
I hope I could have helped.
Good perfumeries
 

mnitabach

Basenotes Dependent
Nov 13, 2020
Are there formulas that share elements that I could use to experiment with along the lines of what I mentioned in the OP? ie 5 elements and each formula use at least 3 of them. If so, approximately how much would a kit for a complete beginner cost?
What exactly are you envisioning as an "element" in such a formula? Are you thinking that such elements would be at the level of abstraction of "cedarwood", "orange", "rose"? Or are you thinking that an "element" refers to an aromachemical?
 

DynV

New member
Jul 7, 2022
As for the latter, here you go [unlinked as moderation took > 48 hrs with it].
I assume I was unclear. I meant that the kit would be limited to the elements of the former, thus between 5 & 10 I suppose. The kit you proposed has 64 elements.

which specific type you prefer, don't buy without knowing the note you want.
I haven't done such a test with the perfumes at stores; I just sprayed the interior of my forearms and many hours later sniffed which one smelled the most. I just need anything somewhat masculine that last a long time; I mentioned somewhat as I don't need it to be rugged, super macho, smell; on the feminine side is ok as long as it's clearly not for women.

What exactly are you envisioning as an "element" in such a formula? Are you thinking that such elements would be at the level of abstraction of "cedarwood", "orange", "rose"? Or are you thinking that an "element" refers to an aromachemical?
I have almost-0 knowledge of fragrance-making, and my preleminary research is that I put some drops in alcohol and leave it for 2-4 weeks in a cool place, then put glycerin in, then mix it then put it in a bottle. By "between 5 & 10 I suppose" I mean what makes the drops in the aforementioned. Can't I create a sample of something long-lasting I don't hate for 100 USD? I'd then use what I disliked the least to make something a bit better.

Moderators: Beside this paragraph, the only thing I changed was to remove ourmess's link and the version with it was in moderation for over 48 hrs.
 

FOXHOUND

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Jan 14, 2022
The best offense against body odor and general discomfort from being sweaty is a good defense. Out of the shower and dried off, apply some antiperspirant & deodorant that's made together in the same product. I prefer a soft solid. I've been using the same one for many years and I've gotten great performance from Old Spice Sweat Defense Antiperspirant Deodorant Pure Sport Plus. After that I apply Gold Bond Body Powder. I sprinkle some in my hand, or you could use a body powder applicator, and I it apply where heat & moisture makes things uncomfortable, namely the crotch area (sorry, I don't know a more polite way to say that), and pat some under the arms and chest area. The best way to minimize a mess with the powder is to step back in the shower stall to apply it. After applying your powder, you can rinse what came off of you after you've stepped out of the shower when you're done. The body powder also works well with the antiperspirant & deodorant, and makes a big difference in your daily comfort. After that, on with the rest of your routine. I live in south Georgia in the US and this daily procedure makes my life so much more comfortable in the high south Ga. heat & humidity. Starting with a good foundation will help make everything else work out that much better.
 

DynV

New member
Jul 7, 2022
This thread is mainly, but not exclusively, when I do sport. In addition to what I mentioned at the beginning of post #8, I lightly wash myself avoiding my armpits after removing a shirt drenched in sweat then put cheap eau-de-toilette under a clean shirt, which stage I'd prefer a reasonably-priced long-lasting fragrance. Thanks for body powder tip, that would work on many occasions but not when sweating profusely, and if it stopped me from sweating, I'd be quite worried about getting a heatstroke.

I'm pretty sure I'll start making fragrances. If I don't receive further help, I'll look for formulas having reasonably-priced ingredients, and will see where I get from there. I'm hoping in the long-run I'll save money and that I won't hate the experience.
 

mnitabach

Basenotes Dependent
Nov 13, 2020
I have almost-0 knowledge of fragrance-making, and my preleminary research is that I put some drops in alcohol and leave it for 2-4 weeks in a cool place, then put glycerin in, then mix it then put it in a bottle. By "between 5 & 10 I suppose" I mean what makes the drops in the aforementioned. Can't I create a sample of something long-lasting I don't hate for 100 USD? I'd then use what I disliked the least to make something a bit better.

This is not at all how perfumery works. It is like saying "I mix some paints on a palette, brush them onto a canvas, and voila! A painting!" If your goal is as you keep saying to "save money on strong long-lasting fragrance that I like", attempting to compose your own fragrance is not even remotely a plausible route to that goal. If you wanted to "save money on a bright colorful painting I like", would you think as a completely untrained artist it is a reasonable way to achieve that goal to buy paints, brushes, palette, canvas, etc & just start painting?

This doesn't mean that it isn't a very desirable or attractive pursuit to try to learn painting or perfumery! But those are not plausible routes to obtaining cheap, high-quality art or fragrances.

OF COURSE, many people only learn the hard way (I'm pretty much one of them 😹😹😹), and what we're telling you is obviously not what you want to hear. This is fine, and if you do buy some aromamaterials and start messing around, we are here to help you achieve the actual fragrance outcome you are looking for. BUT it is not going to be cheap, fast, or easy. You really need to think about matching your goals with plausible routes to achieving them.

HOWEVER, many people get drawn deeply into perfumery by having goals like yours, realizing (sooner or later) that they are absurdly mismatched to the route of hobbyist perfumery, BUT revise their goals to include putting in the time, expense, and effort required to start learning some perfumery. This is exactly how I got drawn into perfumery two years ago: all I wanted to do was make an oud perfume I bought smell more citrusy. Over those two years I have spent thousands of dollars & invested two to three thousand hours of effort, and I am just now getting to where I can compose from scratch a decent fragrance with scent characteristics defined by my desired outcomes.
 

ourmess

Basenotes Junkie
Apr 25, 2018
I assume I was unclear. I meant that the kit would be limited to the elements of the former, thus between 5 & 10 I suppose. The kit you proposed has 64 elements.
5-10 items isn't a kit, that's just...picking 5-10 items. Perfumery materials run into the thousands of items; 64 items is a very small starter kit.
I have almost-0 knowledge of fragrance-making, and my preleminary research is that I put some drops in alcohol and leave it for 2-4 weeks in a cool place, then put glycerin in, then mix it then put it in a bottle.
No, that's completely wrong, sorry. Mentioning glycerin makes me guess that you've done some googling on DIY fragrances - but unfortunately, almost all DIY perfumery information on the internet is wrong. This isn't a knock on you; the internet is full of misleading and flat-out wrong information when it comes to perfumery in particular. Perfumery is hard. It is normal and common to spend 2 years and hundreds of dollars before you make a single thing that you like. You're basically saying the perfumery equivalent of "I've never painted before, but which 5 colors can I buy to paint a decent picture for less than it costs to buy a print?" - it simply doesn't work that way.
Can't I create a sample of something long-lasting I don't hate for 100 USD?
It will cost you far more than that to learn what you're even mixing together in the first place.
 

Jolieo

Basenotes Dependent
Feb 18, 2018
i have many hobbies - this is just the latest-and every single one , when I got interested- I went out and bought books about my new hobby- and there were so many books , at reasonable prices , to choose from
So when I became interested in perfumery , I tried to find books- and of course I found a few, but they were not inexpensive- they were very expensive, they were out of print, I couldn’t get a preview
First clue this hobby was different.
Second clue was the lack of diy info on retailers sites- usually these people want to sell and will give out info to help you along- but white lotus and perfumers apprentice were the only ones that had any formulas- but no explanations
Third clue- this is the only site that has any real info- and it’s more like watching the community evolve than a linear knowledge
The real clue is when my daughter started ordering samples from fairly well known indie perfumers—
and they were beyond awful

so there is another dimension to this
so if you figure out the right materials to buy- and this is a challenge because they are not equal, especially naturals
then you break the code and figure out how to combine - wow a bigger challenge because nothing is as it seems- the properties do not reveal themselves until in use, so it’s only through doing- and perhaps constant reading here
then its a matter of talent-and for a perfume to make it main stream - you are smelling talent whether one likes that perfume or not
i have heard about perfumers who create w/o being involved on a personal creative level- I guess it could be a living like anything else- and I have heard of perfumers that only create when their muse is present
but I bet both types have a “ je ne sais quoi “ that not everyone has
it is presumptuous to believe that just because we are here, we will have oodles of talent-
i believe this is true of any artistic endeavor ( perhaps any endeavor) the more defined the project, the more you can hold it in your mind, envision it , the better the chances of success
A strong body odor cover up that’s cheap?try searching the forum for that-it’s an unusual goal
Grab some Vetiver essential oil- aura cacia has a very acceptable version-put a dab on you shirt- it might take a minute to undulate but once it warms up, you will smell of just this- I have washed my shirt and it has still been there- it is also a strong oil that ( to me) has a pleasant smell- and it can be quite diffuse-
jasmine is another strong diffuse with good projection, rose a bit less strong ,less projection but quite diffuse
all available from aura cacia at a health food store but don’t buy any other brand - because you will be disappointed
the reason those three is you probably can get them locally-
and aroma chemicals are generally single molecules - so they don’t often have multiple properties the way naturals do- so it’s hard to get - pleasant smelling , strong , diffuse and long lasting- and to make purchase it is better to have an actual plan for an order- which I feel you are not close to yet
so it's a dip your toe in solution
 

Saraiva

Basenotes Member
May 26, 2018
mnitabach
Said:
"...Over those two years I have spent thousands of dollars" ??? UPS!!! 🤔😯
So many Dollars, I didn't spend a single Dollar...I spent Euros €€€€€ :LOL::ROFLMAO:😇
Perfumery is like drugs, you are never satisfied...:cry:😭😭

Penniless in our pockets, but happy... 😜:LOL::ROFLMAO:
Best Regards and good Sunday
 

Bmaster

Super Member
Sep 24, 2021
Admittedly, I was as ambitious and stubborn as the OP was when I began my journey. Simply put, Those whom have posted herein are trying to convince you to reconsider your plans, or at least understand what you are seeking is not feasible. You will spend more money attempting to “develop” a cheap fragrance, whereas if you just spent it on cheap fragrances, you would be saving money.

If developing a cheap or cost effective fragrance was simple and affordable, everyone would be doing it. Contrary to what you may believe, even a cheap fragrance requires a unreasonable amount of time to develop.

In my humble opinion, you have realistically two choices here.

1. Acknowledge that perfuming is expensive and expect to not “break even” on your endeavor for years perhaps a decade or more (considering this is cheap fragrance), and start learning how to perfume (warning, it’s a long never ending process)

2. Acknowledge that this is a very ambitious task you have proposed and concede to purchasing cheap fragrances to alleviate your odor issues.
 

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