Help needed to figure out why scent throw is so poor in a reed diffuser

Jeremyvil

New member
Sep 27, 2022
Hello everyone!

I have been following this forum for a while and by reading so many intelligent and knowledgeable people I decided that this place is probably my last hope to find an answer.

I am currently developing home fragrance brand and been struggling for a couple months now. I tried many different formulas and ratios but the scent just doesn't project well. First two formulas basically have no projection. 3rd formula has just a little bit of projection. 4th is the best among worst - projection is noticeable but the liquid evaporates way too fast most likely due to percentage of ethanol. Clearly for the first three formulas AUGEO base slows down evaporation rate due to its thickness but also minimizes the scent throw.

One more thing to mention is that the fragrance just doesn't climb up to the top of the stick. Seems like it stops somewhere 3/5 of the way.

Few formulas I tried. (I use fiber sticks):

1)
40% AUGEO base
33% Ethanol denat (97%)
23% Fragrance oil
4% Water

2)
40% AUGEO base
8% Ethanol denat. (97%)
20% Fragrance oil
24% Di(propylene glycol) methyl ether (DPM)
8% water

3)
55% Ethanol denat. (97%)
25% AUGEO base
20% Fragrance oil

4)
57% Ethanol denat. (97%)
19% Fragrance oil
14% water
5% Di(propylene glycol) methyl ether (DPM)
5% Isopropyl



What chemical ingredients would you suggest to make reed diffusers work? Thank you everyone for participating in discussion. You guys are my last hope! Looking forward to your insights
 
Last edited:

ourmess

Basenotes Junkie
Apr 25, 2018
I admit that I haven't worked with diffusers, but my immediate reaction is that this is more likely about your fragrance than your carrier. The carrier will have an impact, certainly, but no carrier will fix problems with your fragrance formula.
 

mnitabach

Basenotes Dependent
Nov 13, 2020
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see any aromamaterials in those formulas??? So of course there isn't any scent throw because there aren't any scented materials in there???
 

ourmess

Basenotes Junkie
Apr 25, 2018
I was assuming they meant these were the carrier formulations they tried, and they were just brushing aside the "...and the fragrance too" part as a non-factor. Which is what I was getting at. ;p
 

Citroasis

Super Member
Jul 24, 2021
But all their formulas above all equal to 100%. Are they only using like 0.001% fragrance or something?

(shrugs)...I dunno. I'm gonna move along....
 

David Ruskin

Basenotes Institution
May 28, 2009
For Reed Diffusers:-
No water. No "oil", whatever that is.

The only solvents I have used are Dowanol DPM, Dowanol TPM, and various IsoPar solvent mixtures. Solvent is used at about 80.0%, fragrance concentrate at about 20.0%. Which solvents to use, or which mixtures, depends on the fragrance concentrate formulation. By varying the proportion of the various hydrocarbon mixes, you can control the emanation rate of your product. Having never used AUGEO, I cannot comment on it.

The composition of the fragrance concentrate is vital to ensure good performance. There are certain ingredients that should not be used as they slow down evaporation to an unacceptable degree. Do not use thick, viscous resins; do not use solid ingredients; and, surprisingly, do not use Hedione.

I will not give you a complete list of suitable materials, but you can try individual ingredient testing to find out suitability. To do the job properly you will have to carry out emanation testing to find out how quickly your product evaporates.
 

LaFou

Super Member
Sep 18, 2022
Im not an expert, but as far as I know if your planing to mix water with oil and alcohol you need an emulsifying agent like polysorbate- 20 or polysorbate-80 with ratio 1:1 oil or essential oil
its better to work with the Polysorbat—20 as it’s much easier and thinner to use than the 80
mix the oils and the poly-20 with ratio 1:1 first then you can use with alcohol and water much easier and more effectively
just weighing on the oil and water and alcohol mixing part not how to create reed diffuser
good luck 🍀
 

parker25mv

Basenotes Dependent
Oct 12, 2016
I'm not at all an expert in this area, but it could be that the percentage of water is too high and the diffuser reed is preferentially binding to the water rather than the oil. Even the DPM could be somewhat problematic in this area.

I don't think water is supposed to be used with reed diffusers.
 

Jeremyvil

New member
Sep 27, 2022
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see any aromamaterials in those formulas??? So of course there isn't any scent throw because there aren't any scented materials in there???
Scented or aroma material is "Fragrance oil" which is mostly at 20%. Do you think the percentage should be increased or the solvent itself is the problem?
 

Jeremyvil

New member
Sep 27, 2022
Agreed, where is the scented materials? All this is, ...is carrier oils, alcohol and diffuser base (AUGEO)
Scented or aroma material is "Fragrance oil" which is mostly at 20%. Do you think the percentage should be increased or the solvent itself is the problem?
 

Jeremyvil

New member
Sep 27, 2022
Do you guys think if the sticks could be an issue here? What composition do you think is the best for fiber sticks?
 

Jeremyvil

New member
Sep 27, 2022
For Reed Diffusers:-
No water. No "oil", whatever that is.

The only solvents I have used are Dowanol DPM, Dowanol TPM, and various IsoPar solvent mixtures. Solvent is used at about 80.0%, fragrance concentrate at about 20.0%. Which solvents to use, or which mixtures, depends on the fragrance concentrate formulation. By varying the proportion of the various hydrocarbon mixes, you can control the emanation rate of your product. Having never used AUGEO, I cannot comment on it.

The composition of the fragrance concentrate is vital to ensure good performance. There are certain ingredients that should not be used as they slow down evaporation to an unacceptable degree. Do not use thick, viscous resins; do not use solid ingredients; and, surprisingly, do not use Hedione.

I will not give you a complete list of suitable materials, but you can try individual ingredient testing to find out suitability. To do the job properly you will have to carry out emanation testing to find out how quickly your product evaporates.
Thank you for your insights David! The reason I used water is that I thought it will make the mixture more thin and will help the fragrance to climb up the stick easier to better disperse the fragrance into the air . As far as I understand the water shouldn't be used right? Also, what sticks are you using?
 

David Ruskin

Basenotes Institution
May 28, 2009
Jeremyvil, it seems to me that you are trying to blame everything but the fragrance concentrate; and it seems to me that the problem is probably due to the fragrance concentrate. Are you making your own fragrance concentrate or are you buying it? If you are making your own, you can do some individual ingredient tests to check on the performance of each ingredient. However, if you are buying a Fragrance Oil from someone else I can almost guarantee that it will not work. Unless the fragrance oil has been created specifically for Reeds it is unlikely to be suitable for reeds. You have no idea what solvent has been used, nor which ingredients have been used.

If it is your own creation, re-read my first post, remove any solid or very thick ingredients, also Hedione. Then start single ingredient testing.

If your oil has been bought from another source you could try to complain but I doubt if it will do much good.
 

ourmess

Basenotes Junkie
Apr 25, 2018
Scented or aroma material is "Fragrance oil" which is mostly at 20%
Ah - then you're using a black-box fragrance that someone else has made, which unfortunately makes it all-but-impossible to troubleshoot. If that's the case then step 1 is to contact the "fragrance oil" manufacturer and find out from them whether or not it's suitable for use in reed diffusers to begin with, and if so at what percentage, etc.
 

Jeremyvil

New member
Sep 27, 2022
Jeremyvil, it seems to me that you are trying to blame everything but the fragrance concentrate; and it seems to me that the problem is probably due to the fragrance concentrate. Are you making your own fragrance concentrate or are you buying it? If you are making your own, you can do some individual ingredient tests to check on the performance of each ingredient. However, if you are buying a Fragrance Oil from someone else I can almost guarantee that it will not work. Unless the fragrance oil has been created specifically for Reeds it is unlikely to be suitable for reeds. You have no idea what solvent has been used, nor which ingredients have been used.

If it is your own creation, re-read my first post, remove any solid or very thick ingredients, also Hedione. Then start single ingredient testing.

If your oil has been bought from another source you could try to complain but I doubt if it will do much good.
David, thank you so much for your honest insights. The oil is the main issue here. After changing that the problem should be solved. One more question, do you know if there is a specific ingredient which helps the mixture to climb all the way to the top of the stick?
 

David Ruskin

Basenotes Institution
May 28, 2009
I cannot think that such a thing exists. Your oil is poorly made for Reed Diffuser. Adding anything else to it cannot help to improve performance. Think about the problem for little wile and you will see how impossible it is, Sorry
 

Latest News

Whatever your taste in perfume, we've got you covered...

catalogue your collection, keep track of your perfume wish-list, log your daily fragrance wears, review your latest finds, seek out long-lost scented loves, keep track of the latest perfume news, find your new favourite fragrance, and discuss perfume with like-minded people from all over the world...

Top