Heliotropex N

[polysom]

I was looking for the CAS number of Heliotropex N. But it does not have a CAS because it is a mixture. Does anyone know what Heliotropex N is made of?

 

[pkiler]

You have to look for an MSDS to find out:

Which says:

veratraldehyde 20 - 30 %
anisaldehíyde 10 - 20 %

And I assume also Heliotropin at say, 50%.

This is all to get around the prohibition of selling Heliotropin at 100%
The Heliotropin replacer at PA was, last I checked, Heliotropin at 50%, and BB, I think also at 50%.

Buying pure Heliotropin is not impossible, but it is more difficult.

You can also see if Cassione works in your formula, instead of any heliotropin style of product.

Both Heliotropin and Cassione are solids / powders, as well as veratraldehyde, and Heliotropex N is a liquid. So there is some fluid in enough qty to suspend these solids...

 

[Bill Roberts]

Hmm, if it is that (with the other 50% being Heliotropin) I wonder why I didn't care for it at all?

It's not that I have it much chance, I simply did not like it on initial evaluation, at all, and rightly or wrongly wouldn't have guessed it had any Heliotropin in it, and as I have Heliotropin I didn't see the point. I might have misjudged, it's not that I'm ruling out the above possible composition.

Unfortunately, the days of 50% Heliotropin at PA are long gone. It has been a mere 20% for some time, which to me would be useless -- it would put unacceptably much BB into a formula.

At the risk of being an idiot idea, and there is risk of that, and certainly an idea that has had mere seconds of thought and zero literature or hands-on research, I wonder if addition of say 1 part of pentane or hexane followed by freezing might crystallize out Heliotropin. For any who cannot get Heliotropin and are willing to risk a potentially stupid idea.

EDIT: I want to add that IMO separation of a useful amount of piperonal (Heliotropin) from a 50% benzyl benzoate solution likely would be extremely easy and therefore given regulation on the matter, I expect PA is completely correct in no longer offering it at that percentage. The above is not a complaint on the decision, but an observation and opinion of the consequence. E.g., when using Heliotropin I commonly use it at such as 5% of formula. I could not tolerate BB coming in at such as 20% of formula as an unintended consequence.

 

[pkiler]

Hmm, if it is that (with the other 50% being Heliotropin) I wonder why I didn't care for it at all?

Unfortunately, the days of 50% Heliotropin at PA are long gone. It has been a mere 20% for some time, which to me would be useless -- it would put unacceptably much BB into a formula./QUOTE]

So sorry, I really haven't even given Heliotropex N much thought, either... I just use heliotropin, instead. Same with the replacer. At 50% in the replacer, I would still only use it when the BB was beneficial also. But at 20% in 80% BB, that is more problematic, as you mention... and frequency of use goes to about nil, for me too.

 

[mnitabach]

PCW sells heliotropin at 50% in DPG.

 

[polysom]

You have to look for an MSDS to find out:

Which says:

veratraldehyde 20 - 30 %
anisaldehíyde 10 - 20 %

And I assume also Heliotropin at say, 50%.

This is all to get around the prohibition of selling Heliotropin at 100%
The Heliotropin replacer at PA was, last I checked, Heliotropin at 50%, and BB, I think also at 50%.

Buying pure Heliotropin is not impossible, but it is more difficult.

You can also see if Cassione works in your formula, instead of any heliotropin style of product.

Both Heliotropin and Cassione are solids / powders, as well as veratraldehyde, and Heliotropex N is a liquid. So there is some fluid in enough qty to suspend these solids...

I was looking into this MSDS: https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/msds/8404.pdf
But it did not say anything about veratraldehyde and anisaldehíyde. So, thanks for figuring this out.
I prefer not to buy pure Heliotropin. I don't know how it is in the US, but in Germany sadly the manufacture, trade, import, export, sale, distribution, marketing and acquisition and even the possession without a special permit is prohibited and punishable by law. Because it is part of the "United Nations Convention Against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances". And I don't feel like having the police knocking on my door, so I'd rather not. Although I would like to know how the stuff smells. I better prefer to stick with my Heliotropex N. But thanks for pointing out Cassione.

 

[Citroasis]

Sorry to dig up an old thread, But a quick question for all that have used both Heliotropex-N, versus the real heliotrope oil. Would you say if a formula (glancing at TGSC formulas) calls for 20ppt of real heliotropin, would one be able to use Helitropex-N in the same amount (20ppt) and have the same (approx) desired result?

I dont have the opportunity to get my hands on the real stuff, but I would like to know a bit more on how the dosing for Heliotrpix-N compares with the real stuff. I've heard that this replacer is actually weaker (hence you would use more of it versus the real stuff), but also heard you can use it in exact amounts as the real to achieve the same result.

Thoughts from anyone who has used both?

 

[pkiler]

Heliotrope is the flower.
Are you asking about Heliotropin / Piperonal ?

 

[Citroasis]

Heliotrope is the flower.
Are you asking about Heliotropin / Piperonal ?

My apologies, yes....I'm referring to Heliotropin