Guerlain Reformulations 2021-2022: Facts & Observations

[Deleted member 26220441]

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[xaml]

(...) they last longer than before. This is mostly due to some new transparent musk-type molecule that I've noticed in all of the new formulations, except Shalimar.
There is also an oakmoss reconstruction in many of the fragrances (...) It smells like the real thing, but it's also hollow in feel, and doesn't provide a backbone to the fragrance like oakmoss did for the original formulations.

Adioooous amigos, adioooos my friends
The road weeeee have travelled, has commmme to an end
When two loooove, not the same love, one loooove has to lose
And it's youuuuu whom I long for, it's youuuu we won't choose…

Still, I commend Thierry Wasser on his work. I can only imagine what he had to deal with in terms of budget cuts, IFRA regulations, and changing tastes.

Is it possible that, with no taste, no budget and having known no or few Regulas, one could somehow manage to get around this? Alright, alright. Let us raise a glass of water, of precious, and repeat after me, if you will... parfumeuses and parfumeurs of this world, unite!

 

[Starblind]

SO...are the new Guerlain extracts no longer available? (and, if so, WTH?)

 

[saminlondon]

SO...are the new Guerlain extracts no longer available? (and, if so, WTH?)

There's a rumour - currently no more than that - that most will be relegated to the 'fountains' and therefore available only in bee bottles 125ml and up.

 

[Starblind]

There's a rumour - currently no more than that - that most will be relegated to the 'fountains' and therefore available only in bee bottles 125ml and up.

ARGH.

 

[saminlondon]

ARGH.

Indeed. If there's an extrait you can't live without, now might be the time to stock up.

 

[mr. reasonable]

Interesting thread - first time I've seen it.

I am definitely a Guerlainophile (150+ bottles from different years) but I have never really taken time to note code numbers etc. Most of my 'precious' stuff was bought around 2010 with a few bulk buys over the next few years whenever the local Head of Fragrance at Guerlain alerted me to discontinuations and kept stuff aside for me (Philtre d'Amour, Attrapé Coeur, Sous le Vent etc.) but I confess to checking listed notes and saw that Attrapé Coeur switched from Oakmoss to Treemoss over a couple of bottles.

Let's face it - after 2010, arguably a few years earlier, when Oakmoss took a hit, things changed drastically. After a sorry few years Wasser was able to come up with something that addressed the change as well as can be.

With this new re-launch I have bought a couple bottles each of Apres l'Ondée & Vol de Nuit and I love them both. The new Al'O is much closer to the EdT from 2008 than the wan watered down iris thing it became for a few years. I did notice at the boutique here (Hong Kong) that some perfumes had to be ordered with a Bee Bottle filled from a fountain - no big deal, they're refillable so in the long run you save a bit and can feel righteous in that you are not contributing to waste fill with empty bottles

I have several bottles of L'Heure Blueu & Mitsouko - the pinnacles in perfumery for moi - that span a few years. These are enough for me to enjoy but I will check out whatever Guerlain is offering, esp in the Extrait, at some point - hopefully they're still good.

Thanks again for the Thread and 'adieu' to the clown who kept interrupting . . .

 

[CeeTee]

I'm starting this thread to focus on the facts, as well as the negative and positive aspects of the new Guerlains formulations in 2021 (white boxes). From online chatter and personal experience, most of the Legendaires line (Mitsouko, Apres L'Ondee, Vol de Nuit, etc) has been reformulated. There are many positives, and some negatives, to this.

I've tried Mitsouko EdP, Chamade EdT, and Eau de Guerlain, L'Heure Bleue EdP and Shalimar EdP in their current formulations (i.e. 2021/2022 formulas).

It seems that in terms of structure, they've returned to the original formulations (or at least as close as possible to the versions I've tried from the 1990s and early 2000s), before Edouard Flechier reformulated everything due to massive constraints on oakmoss use by the IFRA.

The good news, is that they smell great, and they last longer than before. This is mostly due to some new transparent musk-type molecule that I've noticed in all of the new formulations, except Shalimar. It doesn't feel like white musk, but it's soft and cushy, kind of like clean laundry musk but sheer and easy on the nose, not entirely unpleasant (although I'm not necessarily a fan). It can be smelled from the beginning, all the way to the end, of each fragrance I've tried, and it was not in any of the previous incarnations.

There is also an oakmoss reconstruction in many of the fragrances, employed by Thierry Wasser sometime since 2019 or 2020, I believe. It smells like the real thing, but it's also hollow in feel, and doesn't provide a backbone to the fragrance like oakmoss did for the original formulations. It smells considerably more modern, and less dank than vintage Guerlains. What I like, is that the oakmoss reconstruction bridges the gap between the old school and the new school.

All of the fragrances have maintained their character, and nothing so far, has been destroyed, but there is considerably less depth and less of that aromatherapy or shivers down the spine feeling when you sniff them. Still, I commend Thierry Wasser on his work, I can only imagine what he had to deal with in terms of budget cuts, IFRA regulations, and changing tastes.

Take it as you will, but if you're a fan of vintage Guerlains, now is the time to stock up on vintages from Ebay and the like - things are changing. If you don't care about oakmoss, synthetic musk, or that vintage feel, you'll be extremely happy with the new formulations. I'm happy with the ones that I've purchased, but I'd go for the vintage any day.

I encourage everyone to post their own experiences, so that Guerlain fans can decide which formulation they'd like to buy or try (without getting too crazy). I have extensive experience with almost all formulations of the men's fragrances (Habit Rouge, Derby, Vetiver, Heritage), most of "Les Eaux" and some of the women's fragrances (especially Mitsouko), if anyone has any specific questions.

As someone who fortunately, or unfortunately, didn’t know the vintage Guerlains, I was dumbstruck by the latest A.L. and Mitsouko. Holy cow, that’s great perfumery.

 

[Varanis Ridari]

As someone who fortunately, or unfortunately, didn’t know the vintage Guerlains, I was dumbstruck by the latest A.L. and Mitsouko. Holy cow, that’s great perfumery.

Honestly I wouldn't get too worried about what you did or didn't miss out on.

As I said in a recent livestream, some people project their own sense of identity so hard into their hobbies that they see their sense of self-worth tied up in them.

So if someone goes super hard on cataloging and curating what is or isn't "proper Guerlain", all you can do is back away slowly. Don't poke the bear.

If you enjoy -your- bottle of Mitsouko, who gives a damn if they approve or not? Sampling vintages can be a fun and educational exercise though, assuming you're not paying $200 for a 5ml tube.

 

[L'Aventurier]

Honestly I wouldn't get too worried about what you did or didn't miss out on.

As I said in a recent livestream, some people project their own sense of identity so hard into their hobbies that they see their sense of self-worth tied up in them.

So if someone goes super hard on cataloging and curating what is or isn't "proper Guerlain", all you can do is back away slowly. Don't poke the bear.

If you enjoy -your- bottle of Mitsouko, who gives a damn if they approve or not? Sampling vintages can be a fun and educational exercise though, assuming you're not paying $200 for a 5ml tube.

I'm a little offended to be categorized here as a die-hard with his self worth weighing entirely on how Guerlain is currently doing... But OK, Varanis, I get your point. It shows that you didn't read my initial post though.

If you did, you'd see that my intentions were never to gatekeep or deter anyone from enjoying Guerlain. This thread exists more as a buying guide for those who are familiar with the Guerlain of the past, so they can adjust their expectations for the Guerlain of the present.

It's worth repeating: the current formulation of Mitsouko EdP is excellent (although obviously not quite like the vintage), and I'm overjoyed every time I hear that people are loving it. This just isn't the thread to discuss the new formulations if you haven't tried the vintage.

 

[saminlondon]

So if someone goes super hard on cataloging and curating what is or isn't "proper Guerlain", all you can do is back away slowly. Don't poke the bear.

I don't think anyone here is doing that. We're just comparing old to new (or vice versa), which happens all over the forum.

 

[chypre]

I just want to say, as someone who grew up with vintage Guerlains, that my opinion of them is a purely personal thing that I do not wish to impose on anyone else whatsoever.* They were perfumes that have given me a lot of joy, and I really miss them. I find threads like these very useful for helping me make purchasing decisions in situations where personal testing is not practical.

*(Except the LVMH-appointed management team currently making all the terrible marketing decisions meant to destroy its heritage. I wish they could know how much the vintage formulations were adored.)

 

[PStoller]

*(Except the LVMH-appointed management team currently making all the terrible marketing decisions meant to destroy its heritage. I wish they could know how much the vintage formulations were adored.)

I don’t think they’re unaware. They’re just dealing with two challenges: 1) how to honor vintage formulations that are now forbidden by EU law, and 2) how to translate Guerlain’s heritage into a viable 21st century business that attracts new customers rather than just their less-spendy parents or grandparents.

Unlike Dior, Chanel, Hermès, et al., Guerlain doesn’t have a fashion identity for which fragrances are an aspirational entry point; it has lipsticks as an entry point to fragrances.* So, even while maintaining the classic line matters, so does shifting focus to new products with broader and/or loftier appeal. (Well, loftier up to a point. Do I want to know what a bespoke Guerlain fragrance costs? No, I do not.)

I’m not saying the efforts have been smart or successful, only that Guerlain would be unlikely to survive resting on the laurels of Mitsouko and Shalimar.

*Maybe Guerlain should launch a clothing line.

 

[chypre]

I don’t think they’re unaware. They’re just dealing with two challenges: 1) how to honor vintage formulations that are now forbidden by EU law, and 2) how to translate Guerlain’s heritage into a viable 21st century business that attracts new customers rather than just their less-spendy parents or grandparents.

I agree to a point. Yes, Guerlain has had to balance these issues for at least a couple of decades that I know of. I did not always agree with Sylvaine Delacourt's style or decisions, but she had at least consistently tried to maintain the image and accessibility of Guerlain's heritage perfumes. Since her departure, though, it has become clear to me that the new management does not cherish these heritage perfumes like she did. I don't mean Thierry Wasser, who has made a great effort to preserve the formulations of these heritage perfumes. I mean the marketing department, who have:

1. Removed references to Guerlain heritage perfumes in their "La Maison Guerlain" page, the page which tells the customer about their history and values. In the past, there were entire pages dedicated to the history of Shalimar, L'Heure Bleue, Mitsouko and Jicky. These are all gone now. The only reference you see in the entire website is a simple product page for the EDT/EDP sprays.
2. All but stopped the distribution of heritage perfumes to the Asia-Pacific region. You'd be lucky to be able to find Shalimar in Asia (one of the fastest growing markets for fragrances) now.
3. Very likely (not officially confirmed yet) discontinued the extracts of these scents.

To me this shows that not only have they shifted focus from the heritage perfumes, but that the focus has shifted so heavily that this heritage is all but ignored now. This may be a pessimistic reading of the situation, especially in light of the supply chain issues, but I do not see any positive signs in the direction they are taking.