Group buy on milligram scales

Status
Not open for further replies.

fragrantregard

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2015
Dear Bill, my claims are perfectly accurate. And I do not understand your preference for personal insults over actually engaging with with the claims I made (about Petalia) -- that any professional would know, incidentally. Why would he say something so obviously false? Find a givaudan perfumer and ask them about the volume, if you remain unswayed.

Find an IFF perfumer and ask them about his claims about their captives on his facebook page. Ask the sales team if he actually has access to the materials he says he does. Ask the Symrise individuals he wrote an email to begging for captives to review for his book.

His persona in the online perfumery community is a misrepresentation of the role he plays in the industry. And that's fine. I am sure we all do that to an extent. My argument has always been that believing in these misrepresentations is bad for the DIY learner.
 

Bill Roberts

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2013
And I do not understand your preference for personal insults

I was clear enough I did not wish to continue. Yet you address me by name.

I did not insult you. Please stop. The only person who insulted anyone was you, with a charge of lying that you failed to back up when asked to do so with clear evidence, and instead you wrote some false charges which you now edited. That is not me insulting you, it's a statement of fact.

I did address the part of your statement I had information on and could readily reply to: The statement "Nobody uses" is obvious and plain hyperbole to communicate some point about trends in usage. I asked for undoubted lying, not hyperbole that could be objected to on a literal level. Don't say I didn't address it, I did.

As for saying you apparently have a bug about him, that may not be factual, but it's not an insult and it's the only explanation I can find for your writing such things when asked a simple and plain question, if you could provide an undoubted lie.

I have always enjoyed you as a person and value you knowledge but if you must devolve to claiming I have a "preference for personal insults": then you are another that I will not wish to read further.

You'd have done better if you had started with an argument such as the above instead of the false statements you did make before. You may be right on these. But that is not how you had posted previously.

As for your remainder, I'm not going to spend much time on it but I find it pretty absurd. I have never known a large company where one could "ask the sales team" and find out accurately whether people in R&D might have provided something to someone or not and thus one could argue nonsense such as he never smelled Edenolide, or the like. Just wild.

Whether your contacts know what they are talking about or not I have no idea. (I have no information if you circulate among a very high level in the fine fragrance industry or not so much, and don't need to know.) I was asking for undoubted, not third-hand which the above is, at best, from the time it got from wherever then to you then to me.

It's unfortunate if you must smear me simply because I've benefited from ABC's writings on my materials choices and have said so while you have a bug about him based on language being too effusive for you or other reason.

All because someone wanted his bases and you had to jump in and call him a liar. Absolutely nothing to do with whether the bases are worth buying or not for an individual. We buy things for their usefulness. I don't necessarily have the best opinion of every company head out there but if the company has a product that suits my needs, I buy, and most certainly if it suits someone else's needs, I wouldn't be jumping in with character attack rather than merits of product. That's me, it doesn't have to be everybody. Anyway this all seems VERY unnecessary, same as previously.

I should have known better than to ask if you could provide an undoubted example. But I didn't know you would do this and even go to smearing me.

Please let me know if you wish to retract your false charge of me. Other than that, this subtopic is done. I don't read people who attack my character with such as saying I have a "preference for personal insults" to substantive reply, let alone with a "Dear" to start it and then make said smear on my alleged preferred behavior.
 

apolo085

Well-known member
Feb 18, 2019
Dear Bill, Dear Fragrantregard,
Thank you for your contributions, both of your points of view regarding Arcadi's work are reliables.
May be if the DIY community had plain access to Arcadi bases then the legend may continue or fail miserably.
Please keep up your good work and precious advices for the DIY community with the calm and wisdom you've used to.
 

Bill Roberts

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2013
Thank you Apolo!

I don't have those bases and am not greatly concerned about it. I have simply benefited from some materials descriptions, of available materials, and combinations mentioned, and am always disconcerted by attacks without good evidence. Everything which some find very good or useful, it would be great if we had access to, but much never will be. I definitely agree that if they were available then most likely there would be agreement that attacks are foolish and useless, or dead on the money, one or the other. Let the products prove themselves. But they cannot when we do not have them.
 

fragrantregard

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2015
Bill,

It is not for you to decide that “this subtopic is done,” because you were “clear enough [you] did not wish to continue.” I have every right to make my case, which I will continue to do, despite your petty threat to make me “another that [you] not wish to read further.” You are master of your own time; you may disregard everything I say, and post; you may refuse to respond. You may not tell me I cannot.

As for the “accusations,” I made of you. Here are the facts. You have said my “claims were nothing like accurate” and that “ obviously have a big bug on it,” both of which are patently false. You said I ‘ironically’ have made false statements about him — again, an untruth. These are insulting to me, yes, because I never wish to misinform other people. And you imply I am doing just that because “something else” (otherwise unspecified) “is going on.”

I am happy to expound on why I commented on the post about his bases (which, incidentally we agree on: his personal marketing strategies have nothing to do with their quality — which is made clear in my first response). There is constantly an evocation on this forum, which I’m sure you’ve observed, that captives are kept away from the DIY community (sometimes for unspecified reasons, sometimes to keep the DIY community down, etc). That their use in perfumes takes creations to next level. Users opine their lack of access, etc etc. These are all ludicrous statements, and, in my eyes, a disservice to the new DIY learner who is disappointed with her or her progress when studying. I see Arcadi’s writings and posts (unintentionally, perhaps) feeding this narrative. I do not admire this. And I think that is unhelpful for the DIY learner.

I provided you with cases where he knowingly “exaggerates” the facts. This to me is not truthful. We don’t have to quibble about the word “lie,” as I didn’t even call him “a liar,” contrary to what you write. I said he sometimes “simply lies” about the materials he is using. This can’t be refuted. I didn’t cast any aspersions against his character. Again, I urged readers not to buy into how he markets his products. And also to ignore how to sometimes makes things up about the captives which he reviews.
 

bsouthers

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2017
Dear Bill, Dear Fragrantregard,
Thank you for your contributions, both of your points of view regarding Arcadi's work are reliables.
May be if the DIY community had plain access to Arcadi bases then the legend may continue or fail miserably.
Please keep up your good work and precious advices for the DIY community with the calm and wisdom you've used to.

I was going to ask to kindly move their pissing match to another spot but this response is probably better! :lolk:
 

Bill Roberts

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2013
FR, It is for me to decide when I am done with a subtopic, and now, done with a person.

And when done with stating what needs to be said, as I have done so and don't need to repeat. Each can read what you write above and compare it to what preceded, as well as to itself. Such astounding "content":

I didn’t even call him “a liar,” contrary to what you write. I said he sometimes “simply lies”

I don't deal with people who try to dispute the truth of what I say with statements like that. Beyond absurd.

You did not withdraw your character attack of me. Your choice, and my choice follows. Not a loss to anyone I am sure, and mentioned only in case any wonder why I shall not at any time ever respond to you again. i will not be seeing it, unless it is in quotes, which cannot be avoided.

You have really surprised me with your demonstration of today. Well, one finds out about people with time and interaction, and I have learned now about you. For the better I suppose in the long run, though a disappointment.
 

GoldWineMemories

Well-known member
Nov 22, 2019
FR, It is for me to decide when I am done with a subtopic, and now, done with a person.

And when done with stating what needs to be said, as I have done so and don't need to repeat. Each can read what you write above and compare it to what preceded, as well as to itself. Such astounding "content":



I don't deal with people who try to dispute the truth of what I say with statements like that. Beyond absurd.

You did not withdraw your character attack of me. Your choice, and my choice follows. Not a loss to anyone I am sure, and mentioned only in case any wonder why I shall not at any time ever respond to you again. i will not be seeing it, unless it is in quotes, which cannot be avoided.

You have really surprised me with your demonstration of today. Well, one finds out about people with time and interaction, and I have learned now about you. For the better I suppose in the long run, though a disappointment.

Bill everything turns into personal attacks with you. This is perfume it's not that serious. Let it go man, be the bigger man. Let's have peace Bill if you're not pleased with what's going on in this thread then just don't tune in. Two moderators have already posted here so nothing is astray yet.
 

perfumum

Well-known member
Jun 28, 2016
You have really surprised me with your demonstration of today. Well, one finds out about people with time and interaction, and I have learned now about you. For the better I suppose in the long run, though a disappointment.

Wow, Bill - you've really outdone yourself! I don't know if you'll see this - you put me on your ignore list at the drop of a hat a few months when I dared to challenge your gospel that ABC is the best perfumer ever to have lived who can say no wrong. You made the assumption that I'm just a hobbyist, rather than working in the industry, and hence assumed I couldn't have possibly smelled Edenolide before you. Oops.

What saddens me is that you are obviously very emotionally invested in ABC's writings as if they are some sort of religious text. No amount of evidence of fraud, or ridiculous hyperbolic claims, or dodgy pictures with pubescent girls are apparently sufficient to interrupt your rapture with this man. This has a knock-on effect when you continually speak his praises: people on this forum get the idea that because you - a senior member - endorse him, that that must mean he is worthy of such attention. In reality, he's either unheard of or laughed at by almost everyone in industry.
 

Bill Roberts

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2013
Bill everything turns into personal attacks with you. This is perfume it's not that serious. Let it go man, be the bigger man. Let's have peace Bill if you're not pleased with what's going on in this thread then just don't tune in. Two moderators have already posted here so nothing is astray yet.

What do you mean? I just did let it go.

And what's this?

"Everything turns into personal attacks with you?"

I think something over 2500 posts plus will show that is not true. All kinds of things do not.

But when people make statements about me personally of a negatively characterizing nature, yes that it's exactly what it is and I have no reason to pretend it's not. Maybe unlike some, I'll call it for what it is when it happens.

it's the refuge of people whose attempts at facts don't work, or who even themselves replied with clear-as-day, right-there falsehoods or unsupported statements (depending on the case) which they neither could show true nor would take back, and instead dive to ad hominem.

I don't deal with people like that, once identified, and frankly don't see a reason for anyone objecting to that policy, not that you said you did.

I will not be responding to this thread further as there is no point. Clearly some have agendas that have nothing to do with the thread topic or the quite sincere request or comment on the bases in question, end of story, as well as rather obviously personal bones to pick at quite hard, replete with false statements. Not a thing I wish to participate in.
 

furrypine

Community Manager
Staff member
Moderator
Basenotes Plus
Mar 4, 2007
This thread has gone slightly awry so I am closing it. Thank you all for answering my questions about group buys, I can see how it would benefit the community if we could use the site to initiate it. There might be issues of allowing it that I'm not familiar with, perhaps about the legality of running sales through Basenotes, that I will have to ask Grant about. When I know more I will make a thread in the DIY forum and keep you informed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest News

Top