Good pairings for vetiver?

[polysom]

I like the smell of vetiveryl acetate and vetiverol. So, I would like to make this two the main players of a perfume (I use 10% each, at the moment). I've already tried to blend it with mandarinal, triplal, stemone, sclarene, jasmine sambac, mahagonate, a touch of vetiver haiti , clary sage, and trimofix. But I was not quite happy. I want that the blend enhance and complement the vetiver, but it was changing its character too much in another direction. What would you blend vetiver materials with?

 

[Yuri-G]

Maybe try your original formula omitting the jasmine. I'm not familiar with all of the materials you list but that one stands out as an obviously different direction.

I like vetiver with galbanum and oakmoss. Maybe a hint of a nice patchouli. Vertofix, ambroxan and a couple of musks.

 

[ScentAle]

I like about with all, atleast the lighter Haiti.
Vetiveryl acetate, interesting effect comme de garçon like, pairing it with drier woods like norlimbanol, cedroxyde, amber ketal, and some good incense, texas cedar, cypriol hint. It will immediately give you a nice ideas.
And vetiver blends well also with grapefruit materials and his fresh bitterness.

 

[chyprefresh]

I also like Vertofix with vetiver isolates.

 

[mnitabach]

IMO & IME, vetiver is very difficult to keep at the center of a fragrance composition, as it is very easily obscured/altered by other materials. And it sounds like you've got super powerful materials in your composition, such as jasmine, stemone, triplal, etc. I suggest trying to start with vetiver, some transparent musk, some transparent woody/amber structure (like ambercore), and some transparent muguet type materials. Get that to a state where the vetiver is forward, and then only bring in other elements one at a time to see if they are reasonably transparent to the vetiver.

 

[Quay Limey]

I think a good example of a vetiver-centric fragrance is L’Air du Desert Morocain. The vetiver in that is obvious from the opening until the drydown where it drags on with the high vanillin and ambroxan doses.

This thread has a GC result for any interested parties to study…

L'Air Du Desert Marocain

Upon further consideration, we have decided to release the L'Air Du Desert Marocain analysis to the website. The link is live. If you are not an insider you, unfortunately, will not be able to view the document, though access to the document and the database is only $4.99/month. Here is the...

basenotes.com

 

[Alex F.]

There was an article series (I thought it was in three parts, but there were more than that) by Pajaujis Anonis on "Woody notes in perfumery" in Perfumer & Flavorist. "Vetiver and derivatives, part I" is an informative read and the formulas for vetiver imitations may offer some interesting suggestions for pairings.

 

[mnitabach]

There was a three-part article series by Pajaujis Anonis on "Woody notes in perfumery" in Perfumer & Flavorist. Part I, "Vetiver and derivatives" is an informative read and the formulas for vetiver imitations may offer some interesting suggestions for pairings.

This is absolutely fantastic!!! Thanks for posting!!!

 

[polysom]

Wow. Thanks, you have given me so many new ideas. This is all really helpful.

IMO & IME, vetiver is very difficult to keep at the center of a fragrance composition,

This is indeed true. And currently my main issue. But with all those help, I think I can fix this now.

 

[Alex F.]

This is absolutely fantastic!!! Thanks for posting!!!

You're welcome. I like Pajaujis Anonis' articles a lot because they almost always contain illustrative formulas. I have a whole collection of them (21 PDFs to date). But it's not always easy to find all the parts, not least because the titles sometimes don't match up. After some digging, I've found part two on vetiver as well.

 

[perfumer86]

ambergris AC. citrus specially grapefruits. try with others citrus also. green materials in traces. wood AC and some spices like pink pepper, black pepper, also in traces. since haiti vetiver is sweeter and less harsh than java or indonesian. should work fine. dont forget the iso e super which goes great with vetivers. a bit of linalool for freshness and lift.

 

[polysom]

You're welcome. I like Pajaujis Anonis' articles a lot because they almost always contain illustrative formulas. I have a whole collection of them (21 PDFs to date). But it's not always easy to find all the parts, not least because the titles sometimes don't match up. After some digging, I've found part two on vetiver as well.

Thats really interesting. Where do you get all those Perfumer & Flavorist articles from? Do you need some kind of subscription for that?

 

[Alex F.]

Thats really interesting. Where do you get all those Perfumer & Flavorist articles from? Do you need some kind of subscription for that?

No. A lot of the older ones are available online for free.

 

[jsweet]

Since it hasn't been mentioned yet, nutmeg can complement vetiver and balance some of the harsher facets.

 

[LaFou]

Fun thought: perhaps check the most famous vetiver perfumes and see what have been paired with as a success!
now with so many review sites, you can have a very close estimate and understanding by reading the detailed reviews.

And as always, good luck 🍀

 

[pavomi]

some time ago, as an educational exercise, i worked on a vetiver centered fragrance, without using vetiver. when i remember right, it was built around Khusinil in large amounts, Symroxane, Tabanone, Tonquitione and isobutyl quinoline. it worked out quite well. of course, without the longevity of different vetiver extracts...
maybe that helps for your project to surround the vetiver in a perfume.

 

[Pharmacist_Blender]

Lime with Vetiver is a really nice combo!

 

[a4la]

To me Vetiver and Grapefruit are made for each other. A little Vetival can play an important role. I also like the suggestion of Nutmeg in trace amounts

 

[jonah9899]

I like the smell of vetiveryl acetate and vetiverol. So, I would like to make this two the main players of a perfume (I use 10% each, at the moment). I've already tried to blend it with mandarinal, triplal, stemone, sclarene, jasmine sambac, mahagonate, a touch of vetiver haiti , clary sage, and trimofix. But I was not quite happy. I want that the blend enhance and complement the vetiver, but it was changing its character too much in another direction. What would you blend vetiver materials with?

Lighter, more transparent molecules help give vetiver lift. Think ambroxan, hedione, clearwood, iso e super. Kohinool is a good support AC for vetiver, I've found. Grapefruit ACs. Aldehydes.

 

[pkiler]

You're welcome. I like Pajaujis Anonis' articles a lot because they almost always contain illustrative formulas. I have a whole collection of them (21 PDFs to date). But it's not always easy to find all the parts, not least because the titles sometimes don't match up. After some digging, I've found part two on vetiver as well.

Nice, I don't think I've seen any Anonis articles that were anything besides florals. It's great that you have the articles, because her book is really hard to get, but I see a couple of copies available online presently. Anyone interested, I recommend to snap them up.

AbeBooks Shopping Basket

 

[Alex F.]

Nice, I don't think I've seen any Anonis articles that were anything besides florals. It's great that you have the articles, because her book is really hard to get, but I see a couple of copies available online presently. Anyone interested, I recommend to snap them up.

AbeBooks Shopping Basket

The book is a revised collection of her articles on floral notes. I've found 10 of them. For those who don't want to go looking for them, I'd gladly share the links via DM in exchange for other articles that I don't have yet.

 

[Deleted member 26348570]

I’ve finally (after a year) have attempted to incorporate naturals such as vetiver into my fragrances. I wanted to understand the synthetic side of perfuming before diving into more complex blends. Anyways, I’ve found that certain naturals, predominantly vetiver and patchouli are very opaque, meaning the less powerful materials don’t always pierce through. It can be quite frustrating when using these. Perhaps less is more, or more discovery is needed on my end.

 

[pkiler]

I’ve finally (after a year) have attempted to incorporate naturals such as vetiver into my fragrances. I wanted to understand the synthetic side of perfuming before diving into more complex blends. Anyways, I’ve found that certain naturals, predominantly vetiver and patchouli are very opaque, meaning the less powerful materials don’t always pierce through. It can be quite frustrating when using these. Perhaps less is more, or more discovery is needed on my end.

There are many versions of Vetiver, and several versions of Patchouli. Naturals are rich and varied. And what dosage are you trying to use, and which product version are you trying to use? And what else is in what you are doing?

 

[Deleted member 26348570]

There are many versions of Vetiver, and several versions of Patchouli. Naturals are rich and varied. And what dosage are you trying to use, and which product version are you trying to use? And what else is in what you are doing?

Well, so far I’ve picked up vetiver bourbon and patchouli light (fractionated). So not a discrete collection as of yet. I’ve used lesser amounts (try to keep it under 1%) and using smelling strip. So I can’t speak to performance if sprayed, but they, the EOs (vetiver bourbon and less of the patchouli light) feel like they are impeding most of the extended base notes.

 

[mnitabach]

Well, so far I’ve picked up vetiver bourbon and patchouli light (fractionated). So not a discrete collection as of yet. I’ve used lesser amounts (try to keep it under 1%) and using smelling strip. So I can’t speak to performance if sprayed, but they, the EOs (vetiver bourbon and less of the patchouli light) feel like they are impeding most of the extended base notes.

This performance on smelling strips is nearly meaningless if the end use is EtOH-based fine fragrance. Almost all vetiver & patchouli materials will depart well before what most would term "extended" base.

 

[Deleted member 26348570]

This performance on smelling strips is nearly meaningless if the end use is EtOH-based fine fragrance. Almost all vetiver & patchouli materials will depart well before what most would term "extended" base.

I agree, although I haven’t found an efficient way to test without wasting a plethora of atomizers. Skin tests certainly reveal more information but that resource is limited, especially with tenacious ACs.

 

[mnitabach]

I agree, although I haven’t found an efficient way to test without wasting a plethora of atomizers. Skin tests certainly reveal more information but that resource is limited, especially with tenacious ACs.

If you want to compose EtOH-based file fragrance, there is simply no other choice but to dilute in EtOH & spray on skin. You know that you can buy disposable 2-4 ml "tester" atomizers right? These are well under $1 each. Expending these to test your compositions is the exact opposite of "wasting atomizers", and your TIME is worth a lot more. How much time & effort & materials have you expended addressing your perceived concern that sub-1% doses of vetiver & patchouli e.o.s are "impeding extended base" materials? Because I can almost promise you that this isn't the case on skin if your extended base materials are musks, woods, superambers, tenacious florals like lyral/schiffs, moss materials, etc. At least in the case of vetiver materials, the typical issue is the opposite: that vetiver as an affirmative scent character & not just its effects is actually very easily obscured by other materials. And finally, as Paul alluded to, the particular vetiver & patchouli materials you are using can potentially matter enormously to all of this. Poor quality unrefined vetiver or patchouli can have relatively opaque undesirable facets.

 

[pkiler]

Well, so far I’ve picked up vetiver bourbon and patchouli light (fractionated). So not a discrete collection as of yet. I’ve used lesser amounts (try to keep it under 1%) and using smelling strip. So I can’t speak to performance if sprayed, but they, the EOs (vetiver bourbon and less of the patchouli light) feel like they are impeding most of the extended base notes.

Try some Vetiver from Haiti that is Hydrodistilled.
It's a different animal from my favorite Vetiver that I curated at PSH.

Try Some cheap Chinese Patchouli (I get mine at The Perfumery, but you may not yet be able to buy there yet, due to MOQ size...), and try the Patchouli MD at Liberty (Which has a higher % of Patchoulol), and try the Patchouli at Brambleberry which has a chocolate type note aspect.

 

[Deleted member 26348570]

Thank you both! I’ve actually tried the dark patchouli from brambleberry before my perfuming days. I’ll try these suggestions out as I do have 4ml atomizers on hand. I’ve always been hesitant about buying natural materials from non-perfuming sources because they can be inconsistent and substandard.

 

[mnitabach]

Thank you both! I’ve actually tried the dark patchouli from brambleberry before my perfuming days. I’ll try these suggestions out as I do have 4ml atomizers on hand. I’ve always been hesitant about buying natural materials from non-perfuming sources because they can be inconsistent and substandard.

If you want to work with reliable professional-grade vetiver & patchouli materials having good transparency & compatibility with other base materials, I recommend Firmenich Vetiver SFE & Robertet Patchouli Absolute.