Free Fragrance Composition Software

[RomanB]

How much material is still adhering to the side of the pipette tip after you "discharge" it???

Depends on a particular ingredient. Sometimes you have to wait a few moments and press a discharge button a second time. Pipettes are made of glass and most ingredients don't adhere to glass. There are ingredients that should not be measured that way, such as 100% Sandela.

 

[tensor9]

With the varying viscosities and stickiness of aromachemicals and naturals, measuring by volume is a fool’s errand.

I understand the impetus for want to do so, but… just no.

Seriously man, no semi-serious diy perfumer uses volume. Regardless of your feeling on the matter, you should strongly consider a weight version of your software.

 

[David Ruskin]

Why bother with density calculation when it isn't necessary? How do you cope with solid and highly viscous materials? If you can weigh out enough coumarin to make a 10.0% solution, you can weigh out anything else. Enough, as I already mentioned, I don't care f you want to play. However I would never use any computer programme that didn't do things properly.

 

[pkiler]

but if anyone starts making batches of 1000Lt+ at a time, I'll add the weight option

Then your entire programming history is of very little use to real Perfumers.

 

[Wood and Tobacco]

Ah My old nemeses, pkiler and ruskin. I should be nicer to them , since theyre at such a disadvantage.

if you weigh out solids each time, for every test of every composition... you surely live in idiotland !

just make a solution of the solid and enter it as a new item in your inventory. yeah thank me later

 

[RomanB]

Why bother with density calculation when it isn't necessary? How do you cope with solid and highly viscous materials? If you can weigh out enough coumarin to make a 10.0% solution, you can weigh out anything else. Enough, as I already mentioned, I don't care f you want to play. However I would never use any computer programme that didn't do things properly.

Solids are weighted in a special type of laboratory glassware, one by one and then wait till their hour, without evaporation:

Viscous liquids are heated on a water bath to +50 C when many of them become more mobile and then mixed with some other ingredients from the formula like phenylethyl alcohol. All non-mobile and non-solid ingredients like oakmoss resinoid should be pre-diluted.

 

[Wood and Tobacco]

btw the limitation only applies to the batch as a whole, each line in the batch shows weight and volume in case you want to measure out things on a scale instead. the people complaining are the usual unscientific guys who just like to start fights coz they dont like computer genii who make cool softwares ...........

 

[pkiler]

I am not your nemesis.
Weight seems to be such.
Weight is the only viable option to allow you to think in percentages across every material choice.
Every Perfumer must learn to think in percentages.
Negating this mental function is a non-starter.
I had high hopes that you would actually be able to bring your years of coding into this realm, and that it would be usable, and well received.
Without using weight as the foundation, it has zero hope of acceptance.
AND, I have been VERY kind to you. I have not called you an idiot, as you have done to me.
However, facts are facts. Weight is the proper measure for science, atomic elements, molecules, and therefore, Perfumery.
Volume changes according to environmental factors, while weight does not, unless you work on another planet.

 

[jsweet]

A stubborn insistence on volumetric measurement for perfumery just ... isn't the hill to die on.

 

[Wood and Tobacco]

https://sourceforge.net/projects/parfumpro/files/PFP-x64-4.4.zip/download

• Compression of programme data for backup purposes
• Remember window position and size when application closed
• Editing of extra data fields

 

[Wood and Tobacco]

A stubborn insistence on volumetric measurement for perfumery just ... isn't the hill to die on.

so ? he's being just as stubborn insisting on gravimetry

 

[Jolieo]

I love it - I haven’t really been here in months and voila : stupid arguments-
wood it isn’t about accuracy so much- remember we are babies at this-
take me , I work in mainly naturals(fight about this later!) so batch to batch - my naturals might not resemble each other at all, so accurately measuring the material is only useful for the particular batch, of which- compared to real perfumers , I have negligible amounts to begin with
BUT as wise Paul tells us - it’s thinking in percentages- which means comparing like to like - which can only be done by weight
If I compose something worthwhile- that’s great- but am I able to do it repeatedly?
can I learn which material had what effect at which percentage? It’s a big trial and error game until it clicks-and since extremely small amounts can have an effect, and different amounts of the same material can completely change a composition: for good or bad or just different- the waste of trying to get it right for second , third etc times with many materials ( so everything is all over the place)- now that’s crazy making and unfortunately- doesn’t teach a thing
I have responded because someone who has written perfume software is going to carry a good deal of weight to a newbie- I couldn’t let it stand unchallenged

 

[Wood and Tobacco]

I love it - I haven’t really been here in months and voila : stupid arguments-
wood it isn’t about accuracy so much- remember we are babies at this-
take me , I work in mainly naturals(fight about this later!) so batch to batch - my naturals might not resemble each other at all, so accurately measuring the material is only useful for the particular batch, of which- compared to real perfumers , I have negligible amounts to begin with
BUT as wise Paul tells us - it’s thinking in percentages- which means comparing like to like - which can only be done by weight
If I compose something worthwhile- that’s great- but am I able to do it repeatedly?
can I learn which material had what effect at which percentage? It’s a big trial and error game until it clicks-and since extremely small amounts can have an effect, and different amounts of the same material can completely change a composition: for good or bad or just different- the waste of trying to get it right for second , third etc times with many materials ( so everything is all over the place)- now that’s crazy making and unfortunately- doesn’t teach a thing
I have responded because someone who has written perfume software is going to carry a good deal of weight to a newbie- I couldn’t let it stand unchallenged

if youve got a problem with consistency of naturals, try getting oils from the same supplier and same variant. for example, clove leaf oil, australian, from new directions. its practically the exact same thing each time and they issue a GCMS for every batch.

as for PFP, you can compose in any units you like, volume or weight.. it already supports that

but the batching is done by total volume. for example, I want to make 10 litres of composition #1. it's not a problem at all, you can even specify density per inventory item if yours differs from the index density.

for anyone who questions my approach ... when was the last time you bought a 100g bottle of fragrance ? oh it was 100mL? I see .....

 

[Varanis Ridari]

I don't think anyone here is starting fights, and I also don't think anyone here questioning the software is personally offended?

Criticism of content is not a personal attack on its creator. Saying someone is one's nemesis is a tad melodramatic isn't it?

Angry-flailing at people isn't going to make them see things from one's perspective anyway.

 

[sorance]

https://sourceforge.net/projects/parfumpro/files/PFP-x64-4.4.zip/download

• Compression of programme data for backup purposes
• Remember window position and size when application closed
• Editing of extra data fields

Thank you. Despite the other opinions, you know how to do programming. Very fast resolves. Your program is pretty useful.
I will think more things you can do, and i will put here. I don't want to bother you with single step item programming.

 

[Wood and Tobacco]

no problem ! sure , any idea that makes sense will be incorporated ...

 

[mnitabach]

I'm not offended or angry. it's just amusing to make fun of these guys, especially guys I've been arguing with for 8 years or so

they wouldnt recognise scientific method if they got home and found it doing their wife in the shower

Independent of the substantive merits, do you understand that by orienting your software around volume measures, you are dissuading the most experienced & influential perfumers from its use?

 

[David Ruskin]

Solids are weighted in a special type of laboratory glassware, one by one and then wait till their hour, without evaporation:

Viscous liquids are heated on a water bath to +50 C when many of them become more mobile and then mixed with some other ingredients from the formula like phenylethyl alcohol. All non-mobile and non-solid ingredients like oakmoss resinoid should be pre-diluted.

Roman, think about this for a few seconds and I hope you will realise just how impractical your suggestions are for most people. I have no idea how expensive your "special laboratory glassware" is, but I bet a glass screw top jar is cheaper. And I bet a beaker doesn't cost as much either. Weighing everything, solids and liquids, makes so much sense for so many reasons.

I am all for simplicity and am a fervent believer in Occam's Razor.

However I do agree with you about handling very viscous ingredients; pre-dilution makes them easier to use, pre-dilution by weight, of course.

 

[David Ruskin]

Ah My old nemeses, pkiler and ruskin. I should be nicer to them , since theyre at such a disadvantage.

if you weigh out solids each time, for every test of every composition... you surely live in idiotland !

just make a solution of the solid and enter it as a new item in your inventory. yeah thank me later

Of course we are at a disadvantage compared to you, when you are on a roll. I am happy to join the professional perfumers who, by weighing their work, live in idiotland. Strange how they produce so many good fragrances, whilst you have produced what exactly?

 

[RomanB]

Roman, think about this for a few seconds and I hope you will realise just how impractical your suggestions are for most people. I have no idea how expensive your "special laboratory glassware" is, but I bet a glass screw top jar is cheaper. And I bet a beaker doesn't cost as much either. Weighing everything, solids and liquids, makes so much sense for so many reasons.

I am all for simplicity and am a fervent believer in Occam's Razor.

However I do agree with you about handling very viscous ingredients; pre-dilution makes them easier to use, pre-dilution by weight, of course.

2 dollars each. Screw caps are not really cleanable, glass stoppers are. Such glassware is standard for weighting and temporarily storing of powders and solids in any chemical laboratory.

For batches, I don’t use beakers and prefer stainless steel beer growler bottles and small kegs instead. They are very much close to estagnons which were used at factories a century ago. Also, beer growlers and kegs are ready to work with nitrogen, to prevent compositions from oxidation.

Maybe factories work differently, but I am not a factory.

 

[David Ruskin]

2 dollars each. Screw caps are not really cleanable, glass stoppers are. Such glassware is standard for weighting and temporarily storing of powders and solids in any chemical laboratory.

For batches, I don’t use beakers and prefer stainless steel beer growler bottles and small kegs instead. They are very much close to estagnons which were used at factories a century ago. Also, beer growlers and kegs are ready to work with nitrogen, to prevent compositions from oxidation.

Maybe factories work differently, but I am not a factory.

OK I misunderstood your equipment. Ground glass containers; fine. Fine for storing liquids and solids. Easy to pour from, or scoop from, into the container placed upon your weighing machine.

To my knowledge nitrogen was never used to prevent decomposition when I was working in either the factory or our lab. If you are able to use it, fine. I would imagine most people on Basenotes do not have your facilities, nor expertise. I still maintain my method is easier, and more convenient than what you are proposing. Less equipment is needed and a more consistent result is obtained. By the way, when I describe my way of working it is what I actually did, rather than what went on in the factory. However, the factory also weighed everything that was compounded. How could it have been done in any other way?

 

[ourmess]

for anyone who questions my approach ... when was the last time you bought a 100g bottle of fragrance ? oh it was 100mL?

Fragrances are formulated and manufactured by mass, and then bottled and sold by volume. You can not merge those things.

 

[xii]

However, the factory also weighed everything that was compounded. How could it have been done in any other way?

Well, the compounding machines actually combine volumetric with gravimetric dosing, that is, they dose volumes with density presets onto a scale checking if the amount is consistent with target weight. It's a bit like a throttle, by pressing it you adjust the volume of petrol pass through the engine but you still have to look at the speedometer.

The whole matter doesn't strike me as worth bickering about.

 

[David Ruskin]

Well, the compounding machines actually combine volumetric with gravimetric dosing, that is, they dose volumes with density presets onto a scale checking if the amount is consistent with target weight. It's a bit like a throttle, by pressing it you adjust the volume of petrol pass through the engine but you still have to look at the speedometer.

The whole matter doesn't strike me as worth bickering about.

I quite agree. No idea how the automatic compounding machines work, but you end up with a set weight of product. In the lab, scales are used to produce a set weight of product. I am not sure that your analogy with the speedometer works, but we can let that pass.

For a third time; I do not care how people approach their amateur perfumery, nor do I care about the results they obtain. There are too many fragrances in the world already. However I do care about misleading those who genuinely want to learn, and I do care that those who want to learn are given the right directions. And, as a very minor point, I do care about being insulted.

 

[makor]

This whole weight vs volume discussion has me wondering if there is a difference in using one unit of a material at 100% strength versus ten units of that material at 10% strength. Does this affect the dillution percentage of the total formula?

 

[RSG]

Yes it does and you should also track the diluent you are adding against your final planned dilution.

One thing that can commonly happen is you experiment and trial with things diluted to 10% or 1% and then when you want to scale up a successful product or an even larger batch: you will use things less diluted or neat. Then you can find that it smells incredibly strong, off putting in some cases, might have sediment, floaters, or separation.

Diluents are used mostly for diluting but some are also used for other reasons so leaving them out all together is not recommended. You should at all times understand what you are doing and why and what factors will change your outcome.

 

[Emanuel76]

https://sourceforge.net/projects/parfumpro/files/PFP-x64-4.4.zip/download

• Compression of programme data for backup purposes
• Remember window position and size when application closed
• Editing of extra data fields

I can't install it, neither on the laptop, nor on the workstation.
I downloaded it, extracted the files into a new folder, clicked on the ParfumPro file, but nothing happens. I did this operation several times.
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, with NET Framework instaled.

 

[shackener]

I can't install it, neither on the laptop, nor on the workstation.
I downloaded it, extracted the files into a new folder, clicked on the ParfumPro file, but nothing happens. I did this operation several times.
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, with NET Framework instaled.

Exact same here on Windows 11 Home 64-bit, .NET installed too. From 4.1 I've tried every version since, same result.

 

[Emanuel76]

When I make my list with names, synonyms, CAS numbers, keywords, descriptions, usage, use level, do I really need the chemical name, too?
I find useful the synonyms and the comercial names. But how does it help me to know that the chemical name of Ambermax, for example, is 2-(2,2,7,7-Tetramethyltricyclo[6.2.1.0](1,6)undec-5-en-5-yl)propan-1-ol & 2-(2,2,7,7-Tetramethyltricyclo[6.2.1.0](1,6)undec-4-en-5-yl)propan-1-ol? Will it ever be of any use?