Dreamwood concentration compared to Sandalwood EO

[PeeWee678]

Some AC's like Javanol or Polysantol have to be dosed carefully (in general) but how about Dreamwood base?
Is that composed in such a way that it can be used as a 1:1 substitute (dosage wise) to Sandalwood EO?

 

[Casper_grassy]

Dreamwood base does have a larger santalol (alpha & beta) content than the sandalwood oils I’ve come across. But take note than santalol smells nice but it’s weak as hell.
I think the dreamwood base in a sandalwood base is of better use, such as using Javanol and Polysantol to give it some life.

This is very much my opinion on the matter, but I don’t think sandalwood oils are worth the pricetag, Dreamwood isn’t cheap either but I think you get more out of it, plus as I said using it within a base is good.

Look at that, still haven’t answered your question, IMO, no.

 

[Quay Limey]

I don’t think sandalwood oils are worth the pricetag

The Indian stuff from P&N that Christine sells is a good compromise. Needs ageing, but the price is quite good for the product IMO.

 

[Casper_grassy]

The Indian stuff from P&N that Christine sells is a good compromise. Needs ageing, but the price is quite good for the product IMO.

I’ll check it out, building a cart over there anyways.

I should’ve said “my opinions are on the oils I have sampled and worked with”.

 

[Quay Limey]

I should’ve said “my opinions are on the oils I have sampled and worked with”

LOL

I don't think that's necessary. It's implicit, surely. I personally find it useful to be pointed in the direction of a good material when possible. Sadly, in ths instance, it appears to be out of stock at present.

 

[Casper_grassy]

Sadly, in ths instance, it appears to be out of stock at present.

Why would you do this to me?

 

[Quay Limey]

I'm a mean old bastard.

 

[Casper_grassy]

I'm a mean old bastard.

Well, I wouldn’t say mean.

 

[RomanB]

1:1 substitute in terms of power is sandal cyclohexanol (undiluted sandela). It lacks dirty notes, if you desire them, something else will have to be added.

 

[PeeWee678]

1:1 substitute in terms of power is sandal cyclohexanol

That's a surprise! That's the only sandal AC I was initially almost anosmic to. It's still very weak to my nose.
I'll keep that in mind when evaluating / using Dreamwood. I don't own any Sandal EO so I don't have any reference. Thanks.

Look at that, still haven’t answered your question, IMO, no.

Now you have, more or less. Thanks.

So, my preliminary conclusion: Dreamwood is probably more than marginally stronger than the average Sandal oil.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Citroasis]

but I don’t think sandalwood oils are worth the pricetag,

Finally! Someone said it!

I agree 100%. With all the new bases and molecules out there now, I really don't think buying 100% pure authentic Mysore sandalwood is worth it anymore. The typical consumer who buys fragrances certainly won't be able to tell a difference, so why spend the extra money?

Current faves are Dreamwood Base, Firsantol, Javanol, and good ol' Sandalore. I reach for any of these (in combination) often...and they serve me well enough.

 

[Citroasis]

So, my preliminary conclusion: Dreamwood is probably more than marginally stronger than the average Sandal oil.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, Dreamwood base to my nose is 2x stronger (or 2x easier to detect on the nose) than the real Mysore Sandalwood oil. Or at least of the sandalowood mysore i have in comparison it is....

 

[PeeWee678]

Yes, Dreamwood base to my nose is 2x stronger (or 2x easier to detect on the nose) than the real Mysore Sandalwood oil. Or at least of the sandalowood mysore i have in comparison it is....

Thanks, that's helpful.

 

[mnitabach]

Finally! Someone said it!

I agree 100%. With all the new bases and molecules out there now, I really don't think buying 100% pure authentic Mysore sandalwood is worth it anymore. The typical consumer who buys fragrances certainly won't be able to tell a difference, so why spend the extra money?

Current faves are Dreamwood Base, Firsantol, Javanol, and good ol' Sandalore. I reach for any of these (in combination) often...and they serve me well enough.

Polysantol is really worth exploring, too.

 

[jfrater]

You can use it as a 1:1 - just make sure you are happy with how it balances out as there will always be differences. I typically work with two suppliers of Mysore Sandalwood because there is a perceptible difference between the two oils they produce - they are chemically very similar but there are differences. Imagine how much more there would be between those and a synthetic base! Having said that, they heart of sandalwood is santalol and I believe dreamwood is the only base that has about the same amount as in the natural wood. Santalol alone is magnificent - Christine sells (or at least used to) it. The original Chanel No 5 used pure santalol not sandalwood. It is the hedione of sandalwoods

 

[mnitabach]

You can use it as a 1:1 - just make sure you are happy with how it balances out as there will always be differences. I typically work with two suppliers of Mysore Sandalwood because there is a perceptible difference between the two oils they produce - they are chemically very similar but there are differences. Imagine how much more there would be between those and a synthetic base! Having said that, they heart of sandalwood is santalol and I believe dreamwood is the only base that has about the same amount as in the natural wood. Santalol alone is magnificent - Christine sells (or at least used to) it. The original Chanel No 5 used pure santalol not sandalwood. It is the hedione of sandalwoods

Jamie, I have the santalol sold by PSH, but never done anything with it. Any ideas for a relatively simple accord to illustrate what it can do?

 

[polysom]

Some AC's like Javanol or Polysantol have to be dosed carefully (in general) but how about Dreamwood base?
Is that composed in such a way that it can be used as a 1:1 substitute (dosage wise) to Sandalwood EO?

I was wondering the same recently, so I had a look in some sample formulas. I've found 2 and 4% concentration in blend.

 

[RomanB]

You can use it as a 1:1 - just make sure you are happy with how it balances out as there will always be differences. I typically work with two suppliers of Mysore Sandalwood because there is a perceptible difference between the two oils they produce - they are chemically very similar but there are differences. Imagine how much more there would be between those and a synthetic base! Having said that, they heart of sandalwood is santalol and I believe dreamwood is the only base that has about the same amount as in the natural wood. Santalol alone is magnificent - Christine sells (or at least used to) it. The original Chanel No 5 used pure santalol not sandalwood. It is the hedione of sandalwoods

How they separated santalol in 1920?

 

[jfrater]

How they separated santalol in 1920?

"Friedrich W. Semmler at the University of Berlin conducted early research on isolating and identifying the santalols in the first decade of the 20th century. Shortly after, in 1914, V. Paolini and Laura Divizia at the University of Rome published an exceptionally detailed account of isolating the oil by steam-distilling sandalwood, separating the oil into α- and β-santalol and other components, and determining the properties of the santalols."

Santalols - American Chemical Society

American Chemical Society: Chemistry for Life.

www.acs.org

No 5 also used vetiverol instead of vetiver. Beaux used the most refined materials. I'm not sure if that remains true today for the vetiver and sandalwood as I haven't seen a GCMS more recent than the 1970s.

 

[pkiler]

How they separated santalol in 1920?

They just used Sandalwood oil, they didn't worry about separating santalol...
Sandalwood was better then, old growth trees, with more santalol.
This is my Sandalwood sign from the 1960's, selling theirs at 90% Santalols.

 

[grabuge]

...the sandalowood mysore i have....

Which (brand, etc...) do you have?

 

[jfrater]

Yes, Dreamwood base to my nose is 2x stronger (or 2x easier to detect on the nose) than the real Mysore Sandalwood oil. Or at least of the sandalowood mysore i have in comparison it is....

The top note quality of sandalwood mysore varies. I find it is far stronger in the Mysore varieties. I use two mainly - a standard Indian sandalwood (santalum album) and Mysore (santalum album), the latter costing significantly more. In my past experiences this has been true in all cases - there is a much stronger nutty creaminess in the genuine Mysore type which becomes more accentuated with proper aging. It is bold and obvious. New Caledonian gets part way to that top note quality but is no competition. That creamy power comes mostly from bergamotol and bergamotenone and perhaps firmenich doesn't add as much as is found in nature, or peraps they omit it entirely due to cost.

 

[PeeWee678]

Is anyone familar with Wood Base Mysore from Firmenich and what's your opinion of it compared to real Sandal wood oils?
I think it's extremely lactonic; it's a "selling point" so to speak but I can't imagine real Sandel wood oil comes anywhere close to this (as far as this lactonic note is concerned).

I'm curious; this base is rarely mentioned but it's the first Sandal AC/base I bought when I started perfumery over a year ago. An odd choice looking back (IMO).

 

[jfrater]

Is anyone familar with Wood Base Mysore from Firmenich and what's your opinion of it compared to real Sandal wood oils?
I think it's extremely lactonic; it's a "selling point" so to speak but I can't imagine real Sandel wood comes anywhere close to this...

I'm curious; this base is rarely mentioned but it's the first Sandal AC/base I bought when I started perfumery over a year ago. An odd choice looking back (IMO).

We are discussing it right now in this thread. It is a cedar/sandal base with a lot of vertenex.

 

[PeeWee678]

We are discussing it right now in this thread. It is a cedar/sandal base with a lot of vertenex.

Thank you. Missed that. I'll have a look