Dihydromyrcenol (formerly ambroxan). Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

tspencer

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Jul 12, 2016
Hey guys,

Yesterday I wore Paco Rabanne's Invictus. I got the SAME tangy smell that Sauvage had, only with a lower volume on the noise. From what people on here have said, Ambroxan is an ingredient that some people can be very sensitive to. It assaults my olfactory sense. It affords no subtlety for me.

If this ingredient were in every fragrance, then I would never be able to enjoy this hobby. Is there a list of fragrances I can be forewarned to be careful in sampling/smelling?
 

Buzzlepuff

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 27, 2005
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

You might be smelling dihydromyrcenol instead of ambroxan. I haven't had a bad reaction to ambroxan myself, but I normally don't respond well to dihydromyrcenol which is an ingredient in Sauvage and probably also Invictus, but haven't smelled that one. It smells like lime/lemon with a metallic sharpness that adds great longevity to green and woody citrus notes, but the harsh metallic aspect hangs around for a long time. Lots of people have grown to expect it and like this smell in fragrances but to me it is the sure sign of cheaply done chemically insensitive composition.
 

hednic

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2007
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

As I don't have a very sensitive sniffer, I don't think I would be able to detect this if present.
 

Buzzlepuff

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 27, 2005
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

Ambroxan is actually kind of hard to smell. It has a very warm light amber aroma that smells like clean skin but it radiates and isupercharges most other combined aromas by expanding their influence. You can smell it pretty well in Molecules 02 and in Excentric 02 you can see how it affects vetiver and orris. It makes a great middle note for fragrances and works as a fixative.
 

tspencer

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Jul 12, 2016
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

You might be smelling dihydromyrcenol instead of ambroxan. I haven't had a bad reaction to ambroxan myself, but I normally don't respond well to dihydromyrcenol which is an ingredient in Sauvage and probably also Invictus, but haven't smelled that one. It smells like lime/lemon with a metallic sharpness that adds great longevity to green and woody citrus notes, but the harsh metallic aspect hangs around for a long time. Lots of people have grown to expect it and like this smell in fragrances but to me it is the sure sign of cheaply done chemically insensitive composition.

Thanks. Change my subject to dihydromyrcenol instead of Ambroxan. Whatever that chemical is that ruins my experience. I cannot even enjoy common fragrances like I should be able to. It's disheartening. :undecided:
 

Petrichor

Well-known member
Dec 14, 2011
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

You might be smelling dihydromyrcenol instead of ambroxan

This was my instinct too.

Ambroxan smells great (I'm an amateur perfumer, and I have it in crystallized form which is subsequently diluted). Ambroxan has a warm amber smell, slightly sweet, and very, very subtle metallic, mineral, and musky undertones.

Dihydromyrcenol is a far more metallic, sharp, woody-citrus as Buzzlepuff mentioned.

The association of Sauvage with ambroxan has gone too far in my opinion. It gets repeated ad infinitum on message boards, and so people assume that they must hate it. The problem is that ambroxan is in many, many fragrances.

I've always stood by my claim that there's a ton of it in popular, talked-to-death stuff like Aventus.
 

rum

Moderator
Moderator
Basenotes Plus
Mar 17, 2011
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

I understand your pain, OP. Buzzlepuff's post is spot on IMHO.

I also detect this base in quite a few Creeds - Aventus (yes!), VIW and OV to name but a few. I can't believe how prominent it is in these scents, yet it's there and does a good job of binding all the other notes together with it. I might even be picking some of it up in Dior Ambre Nuit but in much smaller doses.
 

rum

Moderator
Moderator
Basenotes Plus
Mar 17, 2011
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

This was my instinct too.

Ambroxan smells great (I'm an amateur perfumer, and I have it in crystallized form which is subsequently diluted). Ambroxan has a warm amber smell, slightly sweet, and very, very subtle metallic, mineral, and musky undertones.

Dihydromyrcenol is a far more metallic, sharp, woody-citrus as Buzzlepuff mentioned.

The association of Sauvage with ambroxan has gone too far in my opinion. It gets repeated ad infinitum on message boards, and so people assume that they must hate it. The problem is that ambroxan is in many, many fragrances.

I've always stood by my claim that there's a ton of it in popular, talked-to-death stuff like Aventus.

Boom! Spot on again. Sauvage definitely has a lot in it and after doing a side by side with Molecule 02, the base of Sauvage is almost pure ambrox to my junior nose. I have been saying ofr ages now that Aventus is based on this.

Perhaps the amateur creates of "that pineapple scent" over on the Aventus sub-forum alogn with Chris Bartlett can shed some light?
 

Buysblind

Well-known member
Jan 21, 2011
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

You might be smelling dihydromyrcenol instead of ambroxan. I haven't had a bad reaction to ambroxan myself, but I normally don't respond well to dihydromyrcenol which is an ingredient in Sauvage and probably also Invictus, but haven't smelled that one. It smells like lime/lemon with a metallic sharpness that adds great longevity to green and woody citrus notes, but the harsh metallic aspect hangs around for a long time. Lots of people have grown to expect it and like this smell in fragrances but to me it is the sure sign of cheaply done chemically insensitive composition.


Interesting. I think you might have described the one note that I really can't stand. Do you know if it's present in Carolina Herrera 212? I get this metallic sharp and sweet citrus that caused an instant headache. This has also happened with Encre Noire Sport and Acqua Essenziale Colonia (which I like but only in light doses).

I think it probably is ambroxan however that he's smelling in Sauvage and Invictus; it's that very sweet very synthetic woods. I always thought Sauvage smelled like 20% Invictus 80% Masculin Pluriel (minus the quality of Pluriel).
 
D

Deleted member 13385235

Guest
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

You might be smelling dihydromyrcenol instead of ambroxan. I haven't had a bad reaction to ambroxan myself, but I normally don't respond well to dihydromyrcenol which is an ingredient in Sauvage and probably also Invictus, but haven't smelled that one. It smells like lime/lemon with a metallic sharpness that adds great longevity to green and woody citrus notes, but the harsh metallic aspect hangs around for a long time. Lots of people have grown to expect it and like this smell in fragrances but to me it is the sure sign of cheaply done chemically insensitive composition.

Excellent, thanks for that note clarification as I'd smelled it in so many compositions and you've described it perfectly and I agree with your sentiments on its cheapness.

Also Ambroxan is very heavily featured in Aventus as mentioned before, huge quantities along with a chunk of musks and Iso.
 

schnozz

Well-known member
Apr 7, 2015
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

To test whether this is the culprit, which I also suspect, try out some fragrances with over-the-top amounts of dihydromyrcenol, like Creed GIT, Cool Water, and Eau de Grey Flannel.
 

tspencer

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Jul 12, 2016
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

This was my instinct too.

Ambroxan smells great (I'm an amateur perfumer, and I have it in crystallized form which is subsequently diluted). Ambroxan has a warm amber smell, slightly sweet, and very, very subtle metallic, mineral, and musky undertones.

Dihydromyrcenol is a far more metallic, sharp, woody-citrus as Buzzlepuff mentioned.

The association of Sauvage with ambroxan has gone too far in my opinion. It gets repeated ad infinitum on message boards, and so people assume that they must hate it. The problem is that ambroxan is in many, many fragrances.

I've always stood by my claim that there's a ton of it in popular, talked-to-death stuff like Aventus.

Thanks for correcting things. I honestly don't know for sure which ingredient is doing this, but it's in more than one mainstream fragrance for sure. It gives me a vision of the color purple, but really overpowering. A tangy sensation in my nose. It's repulsive. When wearing Sauvage, the smell lingered for hours and actually made me feel a bit agitated.

I'll keep trying to figure this out and maybe keep a list of fragrances that I have this response to.

So far the following seem to have this problem that I can remember off the top of my head:
Bleu de Chanel (minor discomfort)
Invictus (moderate discomfort)
Sauvage (unbearable)

I'll form a list and eventually post it and then hopefully that will help isolate what the ingredient is that is messing with me.
 

Petrichor

Well-known member
Dec 14, 2011
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

To test whether this is the culprit, which I also suspect, try out some fragrances with over-the-top amounts of dihydromyrcenol, like Creed GIT, Cool Water, and Eau de Grey Flannel.

This is actually a great idea to test one's tolerances to dihydromyrcenol. As with what rum was saying, sniffing Molecule 02 might also help one sort possible sensitivities to Ambroxan/Ambrox/Ambroxide, or just to get a good idea of how ambroxan smells and how it works in a fragrance.
 

tspencer

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Jul 12, 2016
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

To test whether this is the culprit, which I also suspect, try out some fragrances with over-the-top amounts of dihydromyrcenol, like Creed GIT, Cool Water, and Eau de Grey Flannel.

I own Green Irish Tweed, but I suspect that I don't notice the problem directly because it's a rather minty/fresh fragrance. However, GIT has a very mono-olfactory smell to it. I hardly get any of the "green" notes that people talk about. I also find that when something "smells like GIT", it smells precisely like it and I get that same mono-olfactory "fresh" note overriding anything else in the mix. So, we might have our culprit. I think the horrid smell I get from other colognes could maybe be this chemical making lavender (or some other smell) get distorted or just overpowering.

I don't get the horrid note though from GIT, so maybe that's not it? Let me build a list of the fragrances that have that 'kapow' awful smell/sensation. Then we can maybe know more.
 
Last edited:

JonB

Well-known member
Aug 30, 2008
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

You might be smelling dihydromyrcenol instead of ambroxan. I haven't had a bad reaction to ambroxan myself, but I normally don't respond well to dihydromyrcenol which is an ingredient in Sauvage and probably also Invictus, but haven't smelled that one. It smells like lime/lemon with a metallic sharpness that adds great longevity to green and woody citrus notes, but the harsh metallic aspect hangs around for a long time. Lots of people have grown to expect it and like this smell in fragrances but to me it is the sure sign of cheaply done chemically insensitive composition.

I agree about dihydromyrcenol; disgusting stuff !
 

cacio

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Nov 5, 2010
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

I quite dislike both too, when overdosed. And I do find ambroxan relatively woody sharp too - as many other woody ambers.

Unfortunately, they're overdosed in most modern masculines. Indeed, I think these two ingredients, plus the even more disgusting marine note of calone, have come to define modern masculine perfumery.

cacio
 

MFfan310

Well-known member
Jun 19, 2004
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

Funny thing is that Thierry Mugler's B*Men was ahead of its time in the heavy use of ambroxan in the base. It was a massive failure, but now scents like Sauvage and Versace's new Dylan Blue have similarly heavy usage of ambroxan to B*Men. And Sauvage is a mega-seller in my neck of the woods. You smell it EVERYWHERE, often in "cologne guy" doses.

Maybe Mugler was just ahead of their time, and if B*Men was relaunched today (maybe as an A*Men flanker... Pure Amber?), it would do far better.
 
Jul 7, 2012
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

I guarantee ambroxan is used in some of the scents in your wardrobe.

Like yourself, I can't handle an ambroxan overload, but used in moderation, I don't mind it.

When you sit down to dinner tonight, stop and think about what's really in your meal. Think about each of the ingredients including any spices. Consider how many ingredients that are important to making the meal taste great could easily ruin everything if used too heavily. Imagine that, while adding a dash of pepper, the lid came off and 1/4 cup of pepper was added instead. The meal would be ruined. That's how I feel about ambroxan.

I don't think ambroxan is the biggest issue with Sauvage. Dior is using something - some other aroma chemical - to add weight and depth to the ambroxan, to give the base a thicker, heavier texture. I don't enjoy the ambroxan in Sauvage, but it's that thickener that I find literally revolting.
 

tspencer

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Jul 12, 2016
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

Funny thing is that Thierry Mugler's B*Men was ahead of its time in the heavy use of ambroxan in the base. It was a massive failure, but now scents like Sauvage and Versace's new Dylan Blue have similarly heavy usage of ambroxan to B*Men. And Sauvage is a mega-seller in my neck of the woods. You smell it EVERYWHERE, often in "cologne guy" doses.

Maybe Mugler was just ahead of their time, and if B*Men was relaunched today (maybe as an A*Men flanker... Pure Amber?), it would do far better.

OMG! Thierry Mugler! That's another one that torched my nose instantly! I saw a video where a chick said she really liked Pure Malt and at Macy's when I smelled Pure Malt, it smelled 'off', burned my nose, smelled nothing like what the reviewers said it would and then I couldn't smell ANYTHING for over an hour after that.

That's it. My nose is cursed. I might have to stick to natural fragrances only.
 

Buzzlepuff

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 27, 2005
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

This is the video by Francois Demachy explaining the inspiration and each of the primary notes involved in making Dior Sauvage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGFxGig6Jv0 With each ingredient/note listed on the video as a word, the video illustrates the reason for that note with several images from the world. Interesting video. The primary chemical notes listed are: dihydromyrcenol (washing machine laundry soap), Ethyl Maltol (popcorn and candy at the fair), Ambrox (driftwood on the beach), Hivernal Neo (hay, grasses). The primary natural notes and their inspirations are: Lavender (barbershop), Sechuaun Pepper (dried peppers), Vetiver (grasses), Cistus Labdanum (high plains New Mexico desert), Elemi (more arid desert), Bergamote (?), Patchouli (rain falling dry thirsty land), Virginia Cedar (chopped firewood). Interesting overview of the inspiration and ingredients which make up Sauvage by the creative director of Dior fragrance. Dihydromyrcenol is shown to represent washing machine clean smell, and Ambrox is shown to represent the scent of sun bleached driftwood. Interesting interpretations.
 

pkiler

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 5, 2007
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

Hi, Mind if a Perfumer pokes his nose in here?
:)

Dihydromyrcenol (DHM) is more top to middle note, and is likely the most overused molecule used in male scents, especially anything fresh or sporty.

OTOH, Ambrox / Cetalox is overdosed in Aventus, and Ambrox is a very close molecule to Ambroxan, BTW.

But really, I think your nose jumps around much more, and you are objecting to DHM.
For instance, when I went to the LaCoste boutique in South Coast Plaza, Costa Mesa, to smell their scents, due to a client that has commissioned me to make a similar scent to one of theirs, ALL of their scents were filled to overflowing with DHM.
I have had the LaCoste White 12.12 GC tested, and it had almost 7% DHM. For my version of it, I took DHM down under 2.75%, and it is still prominent.

I can't really stand DHM myself either. At lease at high dosages as we currently see in the Mass market. (Creed, I include in Mass market too. Just that they get to charge a lot for them)

I have a note to myself on my DHM bottle to keep under 3% in the formula.

Have a super smelly day...

PK
 

purecaramel

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Nov 9, 2013
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

Ambroxan is actually kind of hard to smell. It has a very warm light amber aroma that smells like clean skin but it radiates and isupercharges most other combined aromas by expanding their influence. You can smell it pretty well in Molecules 02 and in Excentric 02 you can see how it affects vetiver and orris. It makes a great middle note for fragrances and works as a fixative.

I agree. An appropriate and elegant use of it can be exampled in Dior Ambre Nuit.

Like ISO E- Super, I can identify it's use in many perfumes of today.

It seems to have the effect of amplifying and volumize (ing) the other notes.

I suspect that is what the OP is identifying negatively. Other ingredients that are of poorer quality being amplified.
 

NZFH

Well-known member
Apr 27, 2016
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

Maybe it's the Ambroxan I'm reacting badly to... some people seem to love it though (if the popularity of Sauvage is anything to go by ....)
 
Jul 7, 2012
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

Ambroxan is actually kind of hard to smell. It has a very warm light amber aroma that smells like clean skin but it radiates and isupercharges most other combined aromas by expanding their influence. You can smell it pretty well in Molecules 02 and in Excentric 02 you can see how it affects vetiver and orris. It makes a great middle note for fragrances and works as a fixative.

I wish that was my experience with ambroxan. I've seen other people say it smells like clean skin, but to me, it smells like if you took shavings of driftwood and ground them into dust. It smells dry and dusty, and it hits my nose like big pieces of dust. As soon as I smelled Molecule 02, I found it easy to pick up ambroxan in fragrances, and though I'm not a fan, it's not always something I mind. I love Millesime Imperial, and MI wouldn't be the same without it.


That's it. My nose is cursed. I might have to stick to natural fragrances only.

I assume you're kidding & I can understand why of course, but just in case you're serious... keep in mind, there isn't a single natural fragrance in your wardrobe - or in mine, for that matter. Not only are there tons of synthetics in fragrance formulas, there are even synthetics in the alcohol (perfumer's alcohol typically contains isopropyl myristate & monopropylene glycol).
 

schnozz

Well-known member
Apr 7, 2015
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

Hi, Mind if a Perfumer pokes his nose in here?
:)

Dihydromyrcenol (DHM) is more top to middle note, and is likely the most overused molecule used in male scents, especially anything fresh or sporty.

OTOH, Ambrox / Cetalox is overdosed in Aventus, and Ambrox is a very close molecule to Ambroxan, BTW.

But really, I think your nose jumps around much more, and you are objecting to DHM.
For instance, when I went to the LaCoste boutique in South Coast Plaza, Costa Mesa, to smell their scents, due to a client that has commissioned me to make a similar scent to one of theirs, ALL of their scents were filled to overflowing with DHM.
I have had the LaCoste White 12.12 GC tested, and it had almost 7% DHM. For my version of it, I took DHM down under 2.75%, and it is still prominent.

I can't really stand DHM myself either. At lease at high dosages as we currently see in the Mass market. (Creed, I include in Mass market too. Just that they get to charge a lot for them)

I have a note to myself on my DHM bottle to keep under 3% in the formula.

Have a super smelly day...

PK

Very informative. Thanks. I would bet that you can find even more than 7% DHM that you found in the inexpensive Lacoste in some far pricier offerings. I've become indirectly sensitive to it because my wife flips out about high DHM fragrances and says they smell like unpleasantly like a dentist's office.
 

Bigsly

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2008
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

I'd guess that with Savuge it's a lot of ambroxan in combination with certain musk aroma chemicals (also in large amounts) that makes it seem so much like "migraine in a bottle" to me. Those who like it might not be able to detect those musk molecules. Yesterday I wore Berlin by Playboy and my thought was that other than not seeming to be as marine as Sauvage the main difference might be the lack of the musks used in Sauvage (or they might be used in much smaller amounts). If Berlin does have quite a bit of ambroxan, as I think it does, I still don't find it particularly enjoyable (in large amounts) but at least it's not atrocious and probably works very well when used as a "background player" (in terms of my preferences).
 

Darjeeling

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2012
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

I own Green Irish Tweed, but I suspect that I don't notice the problem directly because it's a rather minty/fresh fragrance. However, GIT has a very mono-olfactory smell to it. I hardly get any of the "green" notes that people talk about. I also find that when something "smells like GIT", it smells precisely like it and I get that same mono-olfactory "fresh" note overriding anything else in the mix. So, we might have our culprit. I think the horrid smell I get from other colognes could maybe be this chemical making lavender (or some other smell) get distorted or just overpowering.

I don't get the horrid note though from GIT, so maybe that's not it? Let me build a list of the fragrances that have that 'kapow' awful smell/sensation. Then we can maybe know more.

The interesting thing with GIT is that it has that Creed millesime base that is very dependent on ambroxan. This is the reason there are often threads saying GIT = SMW = MI = Himalaya. To my nose they all share very similar qualities in the base.
It may be that you are sensitive to whatever chemical above certain levels. We all love to just decry our favorite culprit (iso e super, especially) but I suspect it's often more complex than the inclusion of whatever scapegoat we've chosen.

DHM above certain levels bugs me.
 

JiveHippo

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2011
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

I believe the op is describing Ambroxan. A sour, synthetic, metallic, woody, musky smell. Sauvage is loaded with it, but to be sure, op should smell these...

Versace Eros
Prada Luna Rossa
Juliette Has a Gun Not a Perfume
Escentric Molecules Molecule 02
 

MegaMav

Well-known member
Dec 12, 2013
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

Dihydromyrcenol (non-descript green freshness), Ambroxan (Salty, dry, cotton ball musk) and ISO-E Super (dry splintered texture) are the future of perfume bases.
It doesnt matter whether the materials appeal to those with good taste, as long as it appeals to the mass market and its cheap to produce.
I have very little interest in modern era perfumes.
The direction of the mainstream market is going the way of current societal values. Clean, sweet, inoffensive, uninteresting, emasculated.
 

LearnToSwim

Well-known member
May 29, 2015
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

Hi, Mind if a Perfumer pokes his nose in here?
:)

Dihydromyrcenol (DHM) is more top to middle note, and is likely the most overused molecule used in male scents, especially anything fresh or sporty.

OTOH, Ambrox / Cetalox is overdosed in Aventus, and Ambrox is a very close molecule to Ambroxan, BTW.

But really, I think your nose jumps around much more, and you are objecting to DHM.
For instance, when I went to the LaCoste boutique in South Coast Plaza, Costa Mesa, to smell their scents, due to a client that has commissioned me to make a similar scent to one of theirs, ALL of their scents were filled to overflowing with DHM.
I have had the LaCoste White 12.12 GC tested, and it had almost 7% DHM. For my version of it, I took DHM down under 2.75%, and it is still prominent.

I can't really stand DHM myself either. At lease at high dosages as we currently see in the Mass market. (Creed, I include in Mass market too. Just that they get to charge a lot for them)

I have a note to myself on my DHM bottle to keep under 3% in the formula.

Have a super smelly day...

PK

Great post. Thanks for sharing your thoughts as a perfumer.
 

Tmoran

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2014
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

I wish we could but I don't see it happening. Unfortunately assbroxan is here to stay.
 

Darjeeling

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2012
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

Dihydromyrcenol (non-descript green freshness), Ambroxan (Salty, dry, cotton ball musk) and ISO-E Super (dry splintered texture) are the future of perfume bases.
It doesnt matter whether the materials appeal to those with good taste, as long as it appeals to the mass market and its cheap to produce.
I have very little interest in modern era perfumes.
The direction of the mainstream market is going the way of current societal values. Clean, sweet, inoffensive, uninteresting, emasculated.

I think the range is a bit bigger than that and there are quite a few chemicals referred to as woody ambers. For dry splintered I'd have though Norlimbanol fits the bill better. Then again, we all perceive these a bit differently.
 

Petrichor

Well-known member
Dec 14, 2011
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

For dry splintered I'd have though Norlimbanol fits the bill better.

Absolutely. Norolimbanol is one that I have trouble with--and "dry splintered" is a good way to describe it. I also smelled it once (stupidly) at full concentration. It certainly packs a wallop, and managed to knock out my sense of smell for a few minutes. Damn my curiosity.

As for other powerful synthetics, people probably have varying sensitivities to them. Iso E Super, Ambroxan, and Dihydromyrcenol are the usual suspects that get thrown around a lot in forums. To me, none of these are evil - particularly since they all offer different smells, but even more importantly, different effects. That said, an over-reliance on any of these can certainly be unpleasant. It's not just mainstream market either (see MDCI's Cuir Garamante, for example--a whole lot of Norolimbanol in that one).

Anyway, I'm always concerned that the reductive hate for certain "synthetics" not drift too far into the "natural" v. "synthetic" fallacy. Sauvage doesn't suck because of Ambroxan--it sucks because one doesn't like the overall composition.

Edmond Roudnitska pre-empted this whole thing long ago: "It is well known that It is well known that there are natural essences that cost very little, other chemical aroma notes that cost a huge amount...It is therefore not a matter of economy if we use chemical products for the composition of haute couture perfumes. If we use them, it is that we do not want to dispense with the glorious nuances of scent that simply do not exist in nature and which only chemistry can provide us with. Often a synthetic smell is more beautiful that a real one - think of a flower, when you pick it, it only smells good for a day or so, then it begins to smell awful. With synthetics, one can achieve the same odour and leave most of the flowers in the field.” (see Michael Edwards at http://www.fragrancesoftheworld.com/top100questions.aspx under "Are natural fragrance oils better than artificial ones?")

Perhaps the problem with stuff like Sauvage is that it seems to have lost all connection to smells in nature.

(for the record, I'm neutral about Sauvage personally)
 

MegaMav

Well-known member
Dec 12, 2013
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

I think the range is a bit bigger than that and there are quite a few chemicals referred to as woody ambers. For dry splintered I'd have though Norlimbanol fits the bill better. Then again, we all perceive these a bit differently.

Norlimbanol, same as Timbersilk, correct?
I have smelled a few fragrances with it, and I've always thought of it and perceived it as a transparent dry amber, more than anything arid, splintered.
Sensation and perception is very subjective.

We're losing the great fixative aromas from the past.
Oakmoss has been replaced with Low Atranol Oakmoss, which doesnt have the same spark, its rather flat, gooey to me.
Animalics are gone, for good reason in most cases.
Just wait until patchouli is outlawed not due to allergy, but due to too many people being "offended".
Its coming... just wait.
 

Diamondflame

Frag Bomber 1st Squadron
Basenotes Plus
Jun 28, 2009
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

Hey, don't blame the substance. Blame the perfumers for piling them on. That said, DHM has been around for ages. Sometimes we ought to blame ourselves too. If we set out looking for something in particular, chances are we'll find it! Beware of the subliminal /mental riming that inevitably comes from reading certain posts.

Interestingly, some of the people who whine about the 'excessive' use of fixatives like ambroxan or Iso E Super are the same ones who moan about the apparent lack of longevity in their favourite fragrances! They really should learn to craft their own perfumes.
 

Petrichor

Well-known member
Dec 14, 2011
Re: Ambroxan. Can we get it banned as a fragrance ingredient?

Notably, Luca Turin just wrote a post relevant to this thread: powerful synthetic woods (or "woody-ambers"). https://perfumesilove.com/2016/07/22/power-tools/

I believe I've only personally smelled Karanal and Ambrocenide in isolation, and they are indeed more potentially offensive than most of the usual-suspect synthetics mentioned in this thread and scattered across forums (with maybe the exception of calone).

Hey, don't blame the substance. Blame the perfumers for piling them on.

Agreed.
 

Latest News

Top