Different types of Cedar

[polysom]

I am a little confused with all the different Cedar EOs. For example if I look at Hermitage Oils, there is Cedarwood Atlas, Cedarwood Himalayan, Cedarwood Texan and Cedarwood Virginia. Which of those would be the best choice for a Vetiver (Haiti) containing fougère like blend?

 

[Citroasis]

I would suggest to get sample of all of them so you can see the difference. I have Texas, Virginia, and Atlas. And they smell quite different.

- Atlas smells the most balsamic and darkest
- Texas smells like fresh cut sharp pencil shavings from grade school. The brightest of the bunch.
- Virgina has a "Texas" vibe, but it's less pencil shavings and a touch more radiant in a softer and delicate way...but no where near as dark as Atlas.

 

[Noobsinth]

hich of those would be the best choice for a Vetiver (Haiti) containing fougère like blend?

Hi there!
Alaskan Cedarwood would be the best choice :thumbsup: It's is extremely strong, a bit smokey (leathery), opaque texture, smooth but loud and long-lasting. It blends well with grapefruit and vetiver. It reminds me of vetiver terpenes.

Of the three you've mentioned I'd go for Texas cedarwood.

I wouldn't agree on Dark Atlas cedarwood tbh. To my nose it has a very delicate drydown and quite terpenic opening, that has complex odour, including coniferous undertones. It seems to have a bit honey-like nouances.

Virginia cedarwood is quite sweet and oily, soft. With mild pencil-shaving undertones. Pleasant.

 

[parker25mv]

Texas and Virginia are in a very separate category from Atlas, Himalayan and Lebanon.

I would say these two different families don't even smell similar. It is just not the same type of "cedar".

Western Red would be in the same family as Virginia, but Alaskan cedar is in a separate third category altogether and is more like the Japanese cypresses (Hinoki, Hiba).

The type of cedar most Americans imagine from a cedarwood chest, or those pieces of wood to scent clothes, is Virginia, and this family is technically not a true "cedar".

 

[Stefan.E]

I am a little confused with all the different Cedar EOs. For example if I look at Hermitage Oils, there is Cedarwood Atlas, Cedarwood Himalayan, Cedarwood Texan and Cedarwood Virginia. Which of those would be the best choice for a Vetiver (Haiti) containing fougère like blend?

Exactly what others have said. If possible get smaller quantities of different ones but I can say I strongly dislike the Atlas, and would personally suggest Virginia Cedar as the most useful, especially for fougeres, and when you're used to it maybe get the Texas (unless you already get them all) for a slight balsamic variation.

 

[polysom]

Thanks. I go for Texan then. The Virginia Cedar is sold out currently at Hermitage Oils. And Hermitage Oils don't offer samples.
I currently do have Cedarwood Himalayan and some Cedarwood I thought it is Texas. But mine is from Juniperus mexicana, the one from Hermitage Oils is from Juniperus ashei. And both are named "Cedarwood Texan".

 

[Bill Roberts]

Those species names are apparently synonyms: https://www.conifers.org/cu/Juniperus_ashei.php

 

[polysom]

Oh yes, you are correct, they are indeed synonyms. Juniperus ashei seems to be the official name form 1930. And "Juniperus mexicana" is from 1970 and is used as the INCI name for cosmetic products, thats why you find that name also often.

 

[Deleted member 26328009]

It's apparently a bit more complicated with the American cedarwood oils of the genus Juniperus. Like Citrus, this genus is quite complex and still in progress/in discussion.

As far as I'm aware, there are actually at least 3 different species belonging (scent-wise) to the American cedarwood oil sources:

Juniperus ashei Buchholz
J. deppeana Steud.
J. virginiana L.

(Juniperus mexicana Spreng. is an old synonym to J. monticola Martinez; J. mexicana Schiede (not to be confused with the former!) is an old synonym to J. deppeana Steud.)

In this intricate case it's almost mandatory to refer to the complete botanical name which includes the author(s). If it comes to colloquial names (for perfumery/essential oils), only J. virginiana could definetely translated as Virginian Cedarwood. I reckon that in case of 'Texas Cedarwood' both J. ashei and J. deppeana are actually used. - But who knows it for sure? Botany and perfumery are often worlds apart!

 

[DrSmellThis]

This isn't a rigid recommendation, as I like them all for different things. But I'd bet Virginia to be most often the go to in that situation.

I am imagining its relationship with the vetiver. The atlas and himilayan cedars emphasize more the volatile notes, though they have a depth too; but the VA seems more a cousin or peer to vetiver, if that metaphor makes sense. I am thinking its top notes will leave more room for the delicate top notes from the bergamot, lavender and geranium. Typically in a fougere you're using cedar to accord with the vetiver, then modifying that combo to be more friendly as far as a wood accord.

The Texas cedar is quirky to me, like you should specifically want to use it. It wouldn't be a go to for me as far as a perfuming material.

I feel the atlas and himalayan varieties are a bit more challenging at first, though they can be great if you are clear why you want them.

With the Virginia I just think generic cedar for whatever usage. But that's just my take. YMMV.

 

[polysom]

Thanks. The Virginia was sold out, so I've ordered some Texas. But I will also order some Virginia as soon as it is available again.

 

[julian35]

My experience with any of the conifers is to pay close attention to the species name of the oil you are purchasing. NOTHING else can be trusted. If the supplier cannot tell you what the species is, then do not purchase it. This goes for ANY EO or Absolute, but because of the mass confusion and synonyms for tree names, it is vital for cedars, spruces and pines.
Also understand if it is from the needles, leaf, or resin or any other part.

 

[Deleted member 26328009]

Julian, I'm glad to hear that I'm not alone if it comes to the importance of botanic names (species names) in perfumery. Unfortunately, often suppliers and even producers of natural eo/absolutes etc. are not complete aware of this, because they lack of proper botanical knowledge. Admittedly, botany is quite an area of expertise on its own, completely independend from perfumery. I have the impression that from the view of perfumery botany is often neglected/overlooked. Let alone the mass of typos!

I can totally understand if scientific plant names are not everyone's cup of tea, but they are indispensable. If you do care about the difference between a specific trade product (e.g. Hedione by Firmenich) and a generic methyl dihydrojasmonate than you should be aware of botanic names in the same manner. - Although I'm absolutely no professional botanic expert, I'm quite familiar with botanical nomenclature since my childhood. It was pure (weird!) curiosity in those early days.

 

[Emanuel76]

If I already have Atlas Cedarwood, it would be redundant to also buy Himalayan Cedarwood?

 

[PeeWee678]

If I already have Atlas Cedarwood, it would be redundant to also buy Himalayan Cedarwood?

To me personally: if I could have smelled the Himalayan beforehand I wouldn't have bought it.
Mine is very much like Atlas and only has a tiny bit of fruitiness to it; the overall profile however is more or less the same.

Of course it also depends on the source but in my case (I probably don't have the best quality): not worth it.

I don't know what other types you have but Alaska on the other hand was certainly worthwile buying; leaning to Virginia but quite different at the same time. Would buy again.

Cedarwood Alaska

Heart / base note CAS # 1069136-34-0 Manufacturer: Firmenich Odor description: woody, distinctive, cool, citrus nuances

www.perfumiarz.com

China is also a nice addition with its subtle smokiness although mine lacks somewhat in tenacity.

 

[pkiler]

I have both on the shelf, but I really don't care for or use either one.

 

[achurs]

I can second the mentioning of the so-called Cedarwood Alaska. Very powerful, fresh top going over to warm and dry woody, quite long lasting. Needs some care in dosing but is, to me, a very pleasing scent which, so I imagine, goes very well with Vetiver.

 

[mnitabach]

Wood 49.

 

[ScentAle]

For me, having a highest possible quality of Texas is the best, as for me it is the most useful (and stronger) cedarwood i use many times. Then Virginia and China. I use about never Alaskan and Atlas.
And it is very very rare to find, anyway there is also the Lebanese cedarwood (cedrus libani) that I found for big luck and it is very costly, i like so much, especially with aging I like more again. It is a bit pencil shavings, something foresty that give me a fresh illusion, and some woody cream. I'd like to use more, seems me very useful.
My first love is Texas.

 

[tensor9]

In general I’m not a fan of the true cedars, Atlas and Himalayan. They have this cat piss vibe to them that just doesn’t agree with me.

 

[Citroasis]

For me, having a highest possible quality of Texas is the best, as for me it is the most useful (and stronger) cedarwood i use many times.
My first love is Texas.

Care to share a source of a good clean Texas cedar oil?

I have a good sized bottle from Perfumers apprentice, and I do quite like it for it's dry pencil shavings vibe....but it does have this smokiness to it that I feel could be cleaned up some. Still looking for a good Texas that's "clean"....

 

[Hedione HC]

Care to share a source of a good clean Texas cedar oil?

I have a good sized bottle from Perfumers apprentice, and I do quite like it for it's dry pencil shavings vibe....but it does have this smokiness to it that I feel could be cleaned up some. Still looking for a good Texas that's "clean"....

Although not Texas but Virginia, I'd recommend Firmenich's Cedarwood Virginia Super Rectified. It's a streamlined cedarwood oil without any off-notes. Bright and somehow clean pencil shavings with a very subtle balsamic background.

 

[ScentAle]

Care to share a source of a good clean Texas cedar oil?

I have a good sized bottle from Perfumers apprentice, and I do quite like it for it's dry pencil shavings vibe....but it does have this smokiness to it that I feel could be cleaned up some. Still looking for a good Texas that's "clean"....

I have two Texas, but I usually use the Hermitage and I'm pretty happy with that. Yes it is very smoky and strong, sometimes I mix with Chinese, or with cedarwood terpenes that I like because dry and woody but also smoothier.
Maybe cedarwood terpenes could be your choice for that?

 

[pkiler]

Care to share a source of a good clean Texas cedar oil?

Depends upon how much you are able to purchase.

 

[mnitabach]

Although not Texas but Virginia, I'd recommend Firmenich's Cedarwood Virginia Super Rectified. It's a streamlined cedarwood oil without any off-notes. Bright and somehow clean pencil shavings with a very subtle balsamic background.

This is a great material & very clean. However, it is also IME substantially more powerful than regular Virginia cedarwood oil & should be dosed somewhat lower (maybe even half).

 

[Citroasis]

Yes, 'Firmenich's Cedarwood Virginia Super Rectified' is my first go to choice when using cedarwood. I just wish it had more pencil shaving vibes like my Texas does. But I find my Texas while has a very rich pencil shaving scent...is easily 2x as strong (and more smokey) than Firmenich's Recto.

maybe ill just blend the 2 together and see what i can come up with

 

[pkiler]

maybe ill just blend the 2 together and see what i can come up with

Blending cedars is a good strategy to achieve your goals.