Cost of naturals vs ac

Aldara

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2014
Re: Which Sandalwood base is closest in strength to natural Ssandalwood?
Quote Originally Posted by julian35 View Post

The old formulas you are using call for Mysore Sandalwood EO.
Why would you not use actual Sandalwood? I am assuming cost but perhaps not?
Did you see my 2016 post of comparisons.

Yes. Cost is the reason.


Im trailing of a new post from the sandalwood discussion.

If you only look at the cost and not the artistic side of it, will it not be more costly to use 8-10 different materials to recreate the impression of a natural? To me it seems that the money, time and effort needed is more costly than to just buy the real deal?
 

needaname

Well-known member
Jun 5, 2017
The problem is that you cannot get good sandalwood oil now a days. I remember 30 years ago sandalwood from even something as simple as soap would scent an entire room when the person walked in. No longer! Now even the real sandalwood you get seems like a pale imitation of the sandalwood you used to get decades ago. Although people say aged sandalwood is great I do not personally agree with that. It has a kind of sour note and a few other notes that let you down.

So you look for alternatives and it is not a matter of just using 8-10 materials. I would say if you could recreate sandalwood with just 8-10 materials that would be easy. I have smelled a ton of professional bases and bases made by others along with tons of sandalwood aroma chems and nothing comes close but I keep trying because the real stuff is just no longer available.

Sandalwood bases are like oud bases, they show off one facet if you are lucky but most of the time they are a pale imitation of the real thing. But you use bases and aroma chems to help with standardization also. Today it if you find really good oud and you are ready to pay a crazy price for it, well even then there is no guarantee you can get it again at the same quality and in the quantities you need. Same thing with sandalwood. So it is better to get the effect using other ingredients rather than trying to use the real thing.
 

GoldWineMemories

Well-known member
Nov 22, 2019
The problem is that you cannot get good sandalwood oil now a days. I remember 30 years ago sandalwood from even something as simple as soap would scent an entire room when the person walked in. No longer! Now even the real sandalwood you get seems like a pale imitation of the sandalwood you used to get decades ago. Although people say aged sandalwood is great I do not personally agree with that. It has a kind of sour note and a few other notes that let you down.

So you look for alternatives and it is not a matter of just using 8-10 materials. I would say if you could recreate sandalwood with just 8-10 materials that would be easy. I have smelled a ton of professional bases and bases made by others along with tons of sandalwood aroma chems and nothing comes close but I keep trying because the real stuff is just no longer available.

Sandalwood bases are like oud bases, they show off one facet if you are lucky but most of the time they are a pale imitation of the real thing. But you use bases and aroma chems to help with standardization also. Today it if you find really good oud and you are ready to pay a crazy price for it, well even then there is no guarantee you can get it again at the same quality and in the quantities you need. Same thing with sandalwood. So it is better to get the effect using other ingredients rather than trying to use the real thing.

Stop spreading this lie. Real santalwood oil is available and controlled by the government. It is just that most of the stock (90%) is used in India and never exported.
 

Aldara

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2014
The problem is that you cannot get good sandalwood oil now a days.

So you look for alternatives and it is not a matter of just using 8-10 materials.


Ah.. i see. So one could expect most of the "precious" oils (Like Sandalw.) to be cut to a certain degree to maximise profits and to utilize as much of the materials as possible. In that respect it would make sense to go for an imitation.

Still, with a lot of other materials im left with an impression that the cost efficiency of replacing an EO with a lot of AC is more relevant for a large producer that spews out m3 of products rather than the average niche house?
 

needaname

Well-known member
Jun 5, 2017
Stop spreading this lie. Real santalwood oil is available and controlled by the government. It is just that most of the stock (90%) is used in India and never exported.

Which part is a lie? I am Indian in India and I have searched and talked to people in the trade, even the government funnily enough, even the Karnataka government (The state where Mysore sandalwood is grown) board imports Australian Sandalwood to meet their sandalwood needs. I can find find real sandalwood powder relatively easily and sandalwood sticks but the oil not so much. All the trees now a days are younger trees so no where near as rich in oil as decades back. And most sandalwood oil locally is adulterated.

If you think it is so easy to get sandalwood oil and have a source do let me know and I will happily buy from them.
 

parker25mv

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2016
Still, with a lot of other materials im left with an impression that the cost efficiency of replacing an EO with a lot of AC is more relevant for a large producer that spews out m3 of products rather than the average niche house?
I can totally understand what you mean, and there is likely some element of validity to that, but even that is not true.
Buying anywhere near decent quality sandalwood is expensive, even for small amounts.

If you are using less than 10 or 15ml of sandalwood, it might be easier and less expensive just to buy the real thing (if you can find a good source) but more than that and you quickly realize why aroma chemicals are more pragmatic, despite all their many flaws and complexities. Even for a small amateur perfumer, it tends to be more practical to go with the synthetic - although I will admit, it seems no synthetic truly compares with the real thing.
 

Finelikeanoyster

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2019
Hi aldara

By my thoughts, certain oils are expensive or not offered in big amounts, generally aromachemicals are more cheap, any quantities, and have ever the same scent. Same you can't reproduce exactly the smell of sandal, the industries work not with the real thing, but with an idea of this, so this is helpful because can create different interpretations, differentiating the fragrances, attending more goodly to compositions, and once the mass market is not very picky with this, are many pros and few cons.

I'm impressed with what needaname says, the old sandalwood smell more goodly than now ... wow
 

Aldara

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2014
Did a little research on the production of different materials yesterday.. It seems that for future commings, it will be wise to learn to work with the substitutes. I.e. the way the sandalwood oil is produced is not sustainable at all, especially not with the changes in climate going on. If things proceed as they have sandalwood oil and the likes will cost an arm and a leg in near future.
 

julian35

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Feb 28, 2009
I suggest you look at Quintis in Australia. They are growing beautiful sustainable Santalum album originating from the seeds from Mysore, India. They have been cultivating for over 20 years now. I have the oil and it is excellent. The company used to be called TFS. You can purchase it from Mount Romance.

It is $1,400/100ml The rarity of the Santalum Album makes it very pricey.

"Using DNA verified seeds from Mysore in India, Quintis Sandalwood is plantation grown across the tropical north of Australia, replicating the growing conditions of the trees’ origins, then processing and distilling with exceptional standards of quality control.
Revered for thousands of years for its healing properties, years of overharvesting left Indian Sandalwood (Santalum Album) nearing extinction in the wild. By nurturing plantations of this noble tree, Quintis has created a sustainable supply of Sandalwood Album (Santalum Album), preserving this precious species for the future."
 

Aldara

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2014
It is $1,400/100ml The rarity of the Santalum Album makes it very pricey. "[/I]

Checked my inventory, and it seems my sandalwood Spicata & Vanuatu is up around 40-50% just since my last order earlier this year. Noticed that Mt. Romance is charging 1400$ for 100ml. With prices in that range it definitly starts to make sense to make replacements.
 

Ivor Joedy

Well-known member
Apr 14, 2019
I can find find real sandalwood powder relatively easily and sandalwood sticks but the oil not so much. All the trees now a days are younger trees so no where near as rich in oil as decades back. And most sandalwood oil locally is adulterated.
I have two original Santalum Album EOs in my collection. One is original Mysore, young; the other comes from Sri Lanka and is 16 years aged (having been made from ca. 40 years old tree). There is a big difference between them. The Mysore Santalum is simple, light, slightly sweet and spicy, structurally it has a distant relationship to Cabrueva. The expensive Ceylon Santalum is complex, has a deep aroma, mostly precious wood and something like a fine soap, then a bit of musky, burnt rubber on top, even traces of something like patchouli, and a lot of more

The smell of both is completely different from what I meet on the streets every day, worn by young north african men. They all smell the same, you can not distinguish them, of sandalwood and patchouli, very strong, meters away, very simple and synthetic and soapy.
 

oudaddict

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2017
Checked my inventory, and it seems my sandalwood Spicata & Vanuatu is up around 40-50% just since my last order earlier this year. Noticed that Mt. Romance is charging 1400$ for 100ml. With prices in that range it definitly starts to make sense to make replacements.

Those are Australian dollars, so the price is actually very good.
 

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