Chanel to launch reformulations in September

Wild Gardener

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Apr 26, 2013
It was confirmed to me today by a SA in the Marais store that the existing Exclusifs will be replaced by EdP reformulations, bringing the range into line with IFRA restrictions.
 
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cacio

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Nov 5, 2010
I think the exclusifs are already ifra compliant; Cuir de Russie doesn't certainly have as much birch tar as it used to (though it's still very good). But I'm pretty sure there is always a way to cheapen things while charging more.

cacio
 

thediamondsea

Basenotes Dependent
Jan 10, 2016
What does that September date mean? How quickly will the new products roll out? Will the Parfums still be available?

This sounds complicated . . . .
 

Redneck Perfumisto

League of Cycloöctadiene Isomer Aestheticists
Basenotes Plus
Feb 27, 2008
It was confirmed to me today by a SA in the Marais store that the existing Exclusifs will be replaced by EdP reformulations, bringing the range into line with IFRA restrictions.

Time to get that bottle of Bois des Iles / Sycomore / Cuir de Russie before they're gone for good...

Yes - thanks for the warning. This is it, people.

I think the exclusifs are already ifra compliant; Cuir de Russie doesn't certainly have as much birch tar as it used to (though it's still very good). But I'm pretty sure there is always a way to cheapen things while charging more.

cacio

Uncompliance can always be arranged. :evil:

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Thanks for the update. :thumbup:

Definitely. Looks like certain frags need to be bought.

What does that September date mean? How quickly will the new products roll out? Will the Parfums still be available?

This sounds complicated . . . .

Yes. How long are we guaranteed "good stuff"?
 

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purecaramel

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Nov 9, 2013
The information I received from the Chanel SA at Nordstrom is that Boy Chanel was issued as EDP and that starting in September gradually one by one they will all slowly be issued EDP. I am slowly backing up my faves before September. Chanel is so tightly controlled that I expect you are unlikely to see the EDT on TJ Maxx or Winner's shelves. I asked about the Perfumes and Extracts and there is some indication that they will only be available "Widely" in 30 ml up.
 

Redneck Perfumisto

League of Cycloöctadiene Isomer Aestheticists
Basenotes Plus
Feb 27, 2008
The information I received from the Chanel SA at Nordstrom is that Boy Chanel was issued as EDP and that starting in September gradually one by one they will all slowly be issued EDP. I am slowly backing up my faves before September. Chanel is so tightly controlled that I expect you are unlikely to see the EDT on TJ Maxx or Winner's shelves. I asked about the Perfumes and Extracts and there is some indication that they will only be available "Widely" in 30 ml up.

Yes - I have never seen Chanel at a discounter legitimately.

Hmmmm. The thing is, they're moving up to EDP strength. Well, that's better than the alternative, really. Take BDI. That one is now a parfum or the Exclusifs EDT. So really, the EDP could be most awesome, and my money is betting that it will be.

So to my way of thinking, if you want the EDT for it's own sake, stock up, but if an EDP done by the amazing Polge Junior is OK, then just wait for the increased strength. Could be spectacular!
 

rulopbo

Banned
Aug 1, 2015
Am I smelling........ an increase in pricing?

I guess they will increase the strength by 2-5% and the price by 20-30%...
 
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donna255

Basenotes Institution
Jul 16, 2004
I have seen Chanel Pour Monsieur in TKMaxx UK. A few times make up as well.

I believe Christopher Sheldrake said they could not do 31 Rue Cambon in a stronger version, well parfum. So not sure how they can do edp?
 

purecaramel

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Nov 9, 2013
Yes - I have never seen Chanel at a discounter legitimately.

Hmmmm. The thing is, they're moving up to EDP strength. Well, that's better than the alternative, really. Take BDI. That one is now a parfum or the Exclusifs EDT. So really, the EDP could be most awesome, and my money is betting that it will be.

So to my way of thinking, if you want the EDT for it's own sake, stock up, but if an EDP done by the amazing Polge Junior is OK, then just wait for the increased strength. Could be spectacular!
And it is likely to be. Chanel is well, Chanel. IMO
 

freewheelingvagabond

Basenotes Institution
Jun 10, 2012
My guess is that they will simply relabel the old juice as EdP and charge 20-30% more. As mentioned by cacio and saminlondon, it's very unlikely that their current lineup is not IFRA compliant.

I'd be glad if they increase the concentration while keeping the formulae intact, but that's more like daydreaming. I wouldn't be too concerned about drastic reformulations based on the fact that historically Chanel seems to pay more attention to their juices.

Looks like certain frags need to be bought.

I cannot see myself considering any bottle apart from Sycomore.

I have seen Chanel Pour Monsieur in TKMaxx UK. A few times make up as well.

And yes, lots of the regular Chanel line have been in TKMaxx this year.

Awww, you people in the UK always seem to have all the fun (perfume and otherwise)! :)
 

mr. reasonable

Basenotes Dependent
Jan 1, 2009
This just sounds 'off' to me.

Reformulations from EdT to EdP? Why?

If it's EU regs then the obvious direction would be EdC to dilute offending mollycools into a "safe" percentile . . .

Sorry . . . not buying this at all. They may well be playing with some stuff, re-packaging or whatever - putting prices up - but neither Chanel nor Dior ever needed an excuse to bump up prices on the exclusive lines . . .
 

FiveoaksBouquet

Known to SAs
Basenotes Plus
Jul 16, 2004
This just sounds 'off' to me.

Reformulations from EdT to EdP? Why?

If it's EU regs then the obvious direction would be EdC to dilute offending mollycools into a "safe" percentile . . .

Sorry . . . not buying this at all. They may well be playing with some stuff, re-packaging or whatever - putting prices up - but neither Chanel nor Dior ever needed an excuse to bump up prices on the exclusive lines . . .

They may need to intensify the use of some approved ingredients to cover the absence of other restricted or banned ingredients.
 

Redneck Perfumisto

League of Cycloöctadiene Isomer Aestheticists
Basenotes Plus
Feb 27, 2008
They may need to intensify the use of some approved ingredients to cover the absence of other restricted or banned ingredients.

A reasonable theory. Likewise, if IFRA regs offer leniency for EDP vs. EDT vs. EDC, then it might make sense, although I don't recall this being the case (will go look).

They would need some good analysis of future likely IFRA actions, IMO, to make that jump, no matter what the reason.

I read here that Bleu EDT has been weakened, around the time that the EDP came out. The scent does shift markedly (but in a good way) with the EDP, so perhaps it's all "EDP sleight of hand" to keep the fans happy when IFRA takes a knife to the EDT lineup.
 

Redneck Perfumisto

League of Cycloöctadiene Isomer Aestheticists
Basenotes Plus
Feb 27, 2008
Who knows?
Is IFRA tightening regulations?

Yes they are - some big new regulations coming. IFRA and the industry are reacting and trying to negotiate, but they are being pushed to eliminate some key components during the next 4 years.

I was looking at some industry facts and figures - even CANDLES are going under the regulatory jackboot! Shocking, to say the least.

Not sure what the status on lilial negotiations is, but at the time of what I read, potentially 50% of all fragrances (maybe more, counting lyral) being sold would require reformulation during the next 4 years! :shocked:
 

chypre

Basenotes Dependent
Oct 10, 2006
Yes they are - some big new regulations coming. IFRA and the industry are reacting and trying to negotiate, but they are being pushed to eliminate some key components during the next 4 years.

Wait, what? Regulations coming from where? So IFRA is trying to negotiate against these regulations? What materials are going to be affected?

Sorry for all these questions, but ugh... *starts panicking again*
 

Redneck Perfumisto

League of Cycloöctadiene Isomer Aestheticists
Basenotes Plus
Feb 27, 2008
Wait, what? Regulations coming from where? So IFRA is trying to negotiate against these regulations? What materials are going to be affected?

Sorry for all these questions, but ugh... *starts panicking again*

This is all public, but because the media is only half-doing it's job any more (YMMV, depending upon the country), nobody bothers to report generally on this stuff, or raise alarm bells. I have a variety of technical documents with fascinating data interspersed between other junk, but they're terrible links.

Here is a great article from the Canadian beauty press, that is dated (end of 2014), and doesn't have a lot of firm dates and chemical details, but still a LOT more information than you've likely seen elsewhere. There are even quotes from BNer SMM (Mark Behnke), Chandler Burr, and Michael Edwards, Frederic Malle, and Chanel.

http://www.flare.com/beauty/why-your-favourite-fragrance-may-change-forever/

The bottom line is that two components - lyral and lilial, are going to be axed during the next few years, and because they are in so many fragrances, it means massive reformulations are due. And it gets worse, because 20 other ingredients that you sense are now disappearing, have become chemica non grata with a shadowy scientific bureaucracy in Europe. My prediction is that their sentences will be pronounced before we even know of the arrests.

I will keep posting more links to this thread, and on my blog, as I find interesting stuff.

Not welcome news at all.

No. Not at all. I'm not sure when the part of the plan where we become human batteries will be announced, but I'll post it as soon as I get a tip. :wink:
 

Primrose

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
May 22, 2009
Something always has to give with EDP formulations. I am hoping for the best. I hope my beloved Bois des Iles stays relatively the same.
 

chypre

Basenotes Dependent
Oct 10, 2006
This is all public, but because the media is only half-doing it's job any more (YMMV, depending upon the country), nobody bothers to report generally on this stuff, or raise alarm bells. I have a variety of technical documents with fascinating data interspersed between other junk, but they're terrible links.

Here is a great article from the Canadian beauty press, that is dated (end of 2014), and doesn't have a lot of firm dates and chemical details, but still a LOT more information than you've likely seen elsewhere. There are even quotes from BNer SMM (Mark Behnke), Chandler Burr, and Michael Edwards, Frederic Malle, and Chanel.

http://www.flare.com/beauty/why-your-favourite-fragrance-may-change-forever/

The bottom line is that two components - lyral and lilial, are going to be axed during the next few years, and because they are in so many fragrances, it means massive reformulations are due. And it gets worse, because 20 other ingredients that you sense are now disappearing, have become chemica non grata with a shadowy scientific bureaucracy in Europe. My prediction is that their sentences will be pronounced before we even know of the arrests.

I will keep posting more links to this thread, and on my blog, as I find interesting stuff.

Thanks so much for the info. Sorry, yes, I had heard of these ones, somehow I thought they had already taken effect, and there were more regulations on the way. I'm relieved to hear this is not yet the case - for now. What I remember from reading about this is that fragrances containing the lily of the valley note will be reformulated, which, aside from florals, will probably affect most of the cleaning and personal care industry's products, am I right?

Ah... so is that why IFRA actually cares about these upcoming regs this time? (Because now they will have to reformulate everything that goes into Dove, Pantene etc etc).
 

Redneck Perfumisto

League of Cycloöctadiene Isomer Aestheticists
Basenotes Plus
Feb 27, 2008
Something always has to give with EDP formulations. I am hoping for the best. I hope my beloved Bois des Iles stays relatively the same.

Me, too, Primrose - me too. Bois des Iles was my next Exclusif. Now I'm thinking I need "Polge and Polge" on it - both the EDT and the EDP.

Great to see you again - so happy you're still posting here! :beer:

Thanks so much for the info. Sorry, yes, I had heard of these ones, somehow I thought they had already taken effect, and there were more regulations on the way. I'm relieved to hear this is not yet the case - for now. What I remember from reading about this is that fragrances containing the lily of the valley note will be reformulated, which, aside from florals, will probably affect most of the cleaning and personal care industry's products, am I right?

Ah... so is that why IFRA actually cares about these upcoming regs this time? (Because now they will have to reformulate everything that goes into Dove, Pantene etc etc).

No problem! :happy: Yes - that's right - those LOTV fragrances are in a wee bit of trouble. And the real problem is, those components are actually used in a LOT more than just LOTV compositions. Perfumery is like that. What's a star gem in one composition is a supporting stone in another. And those components turned out to be great supporting players.

OMG - I didn't even think about the functional perfumery. The problem there is that users don't complain - they simply lose the attraction and buy something else. It may be easier to change the fragrance from the fragrance standpoint, given some advance notice, but there might be a lot of acceptance testing needed, too.

I think at least one of the 20 bad boys is heavily used in "other" stuff, and was nixed by the EU for environmental reasons. So trouble ahead everywhere.

RP, Thanks for posting the Flare article. Well written, I think.

You're welcome! Yes - VERY well-written - I was impressed. Mark Behnke had some great comments, and I'm glad she used them. He doesn't post here as much as he used to, but if you dig up his old posts (Somerville Metro Man) back around 2008-2010, they're most awesome. He also did a lot of articles on Ca Fleure Bon, before striking out on his own.

One of our members here wrote a great article focusing on oakmoss, that appeared in Wired magazine. She's so modest, I'm not sure I should say who it is, but I'll give you a link:

http://www.wired.com/2011/10/ff_perfume/
 
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badarun

Basenotes Institution
Jan 15, 2013
I have seen Chanel Pour Monsieur in TKMaxx UK. A few times make up as well.

I believe Christopher Sheldrake said they could not do 31 Rue Cambon in a stronger version, well parfum. So not sure how they can do edp?

Just Chanel beating around the bush to increase the price - I don't think any will really be hiked up to perform like an EDP (unless already released as EDP) - can't see 31 RC or Eau de Cologne being edp's & still be IFRA compliant - just PR bull---- from Chanel to hike the prices.
 

mixerscent

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Sep 9, 2013
New IFRA regs and an increase in concentration doesn't make sense, it goes against what Chanel usually do which is weaken their fragrances with reformulations. I'll definitely be backing up Bois des Iles.
 

Redneck Perfumisto

League of Cycloöctadiene Isomer Aestheticists
Basenotes Plus
Feb 27, 2008
New IFRA regs and an increase in concentration doesn't make sense, it goes against what Chanel usually do which is weaken their fragrances with reformulations. I'll definitely be backing up Bois des Iles.

I have a feeling that companies realize that weakening formulations leads invariably to bad press. So if they can do a strategic reformulation that overall strengthens while minimizing the change in the fragrance itself, it's a winner. If they can choose wisely and essentially buffer the formulations against future IFRA actions, even better.

I've seen some examples of stronger flankers where new components that seem "IFRA-safe" are spotlighted. In other words, an unintended consequence of IFRA regulation may actually be stronger fragrances, overall.
 

mr. reasonable

Basenotes Dependent
Jan 1, 2009
I have a feeling that companies realize that weakening formulations leads invariably to bad press. So if they can do a strategic reformulation that overall strengthens while minimizing the change in the fragrance itself, it's a winner. If they can choose wisely and essentially buffer the formulations against future IFRA actions, even better.

I've seen some examples of stronger flankers where new components that seem "IFRA-safe" are spotlighted. In other words, an unintended consequence of IFRA regulation may actually be stronger fragrances, overall.

I suspect the Nicolai 'Intense' versions of many of her range would fall under this category - stronger but 'safer' in terms of the regs. Unfortunately none of them work for me. So it goes . . .
 

Redneck Perfumisto

League of Cycloöctadiene Isomer Aestheticists
Basenotes Plus
Feb 27, 2008
I suspect the Nicolai 'Intense' versions of many of her range would fall under this category - stronger but 'safer' in terms of the regs. Unfortunately none of them work for me. So it goes . . .

Same here on other examples. One that really scored for me was Bleu de Chanel EDP. That was a bullseye. Polge took the secret sauce and magnified it to great effect. I think ADG Essenza worked for me in the same way. But there are multiple other examples of new stronger fragrances that deviated from the old plan, and simply don't work for me. Code Profumo is one. The change in composition is clear, and not to my liking. I respect the new magnitude, but not a fan of the direction. I'm curious if lyral and lilial are the underpinnings of the old fragrance in many of these cases. I'm not a huge fan of those components when they're obvious, but they may be carrying a lot of weight underneath some of the formulas that are shifting in the new EDPs and intense versions.
 

cazaubon

Moderator
Moderator
Basenotes Plus
Jan 1, 2005
Actually, from what I have read on the web, definitions of what concentration constitutes edt vs edp overlap. Some sites say 4-10% is edt and 10-20% is edp. So technically Chanel can just change the label to edp and not reformulate at all if they are currently sitting at 10% for their scents. This is exactly what I would expect them to do to ease in a big price hike and rise in profits.
 

thediamondsea

Basenotes Dependent
Jan 10, 2016
Actually, from what I have read on the web, definitions of what concentration constitutes edt vs edp overlap. Some sites say 4-10% is edt and 10-20% is edp. So technically Chanel can just change the label to edp and not reformulate at all if they are currently sitting at 10% for their scents. This is exactly what I would expect them to do to ease in a big price hike and rise in profits.

With a lot of big fragrance houses, I would expect exactly this. But I think Chanel handles their Exclusif line with particular care. I've also long suspected that the (current) EdT formulations were a kind of stopgap while the house worked out a more permanent set of EdP formulations with an eye toward future regulations, which (as I understand it) roll out at predictable intervals. It would be incredibly shortsighted to not be doing everything possible to anticipate these changes. Besides, I can't imagine that Chanel will roll out anything "new"(ish) under their Exclusif line that was done at the last minute or on the cheap. They're being proactive, and they know they're in the spotlight and under the microscope.

I'm still buying my backup bottles. Hope for the best; plan for the worst.
 

Redneck Perfumisto

League of Cycloöctadiene Isomer Aestheticists
Basenotes Plus
Feb 27, 2008
Actually, from what I have read on the web, definitions of what concentration constitutes edt vs edp overlap. Some sites say 4-10% is edt and 10-20% is edp. So technically Chanel can just change the label to edp and not reformulate at all if they are currently sitting at 10% for their scents. This is exactly what I would expect them to do to ease in a big price hike and rise in profits.

With a lot of big fragrance houses, I would expect exactly this. But I think Chanel handles their Exclusif line with particular care. I've also long suspected that the (current) EdT formulations were a kind of stopgap while the house worked out a more permanent set of EdP formulations with an eye toward future regulations, which (as I understand it) roll out at predictable intervals. It would be incredibly shortsighted to not be doing everything possible to anticipate these changes. Besides, I can't imagine that Chanel will roll out anything "new"(ish) under their Exclusif line that was done at the last minute or on the cheap. They're being proactive, and they know they're in the spotlight and under the microscope.

I'm still buying my backup bottles. Hope for the best; plan for the worst.

Put both of these ideas together, and this is exactly what I think it going on.

I was actually surprised that these were EDTs - I had wrongly assumed they already were, in fact, EDPs. So it's pretty certain that the concentrations of the formulas are very simply kept as is or slightly raised to get into the EDP classification.

But I really do think they are going to change things a wee bit, because viewed from the component world, big changes are afoot, and they HAVE to change. As you say, they are always watching YEARS down the road. But it will be good change, IMO. Looking at LOTV components, there are multiple options for replacement. It just means some fidgeting with other components to keep things relatively the same. But if you're going to have a perfumer who is without a doubt one of the best in the world, and the son of the great perfumer who did the line, and both of them are looking at the fragrances - well - this is like computer programming, bridge repair, or auto design. Together, they know every weak point of these fragrances. Just the TEMPTATION to tweak in a few fixes would be overwhelming. So just imagine these things with better longevity, more presentation of the good stuff, and basically some buffing and shining. Maybe even a bit stronger, because no more backing away from IFRA weak points. So I suspect they will smell essentially the same, but maybe a bit longer / stronger / better. The mild reformulation of Eau Premiere when they changed the bottle, for example. Still smells fully awesome (I have a literal death-watch on the fragrance, mind you), but to the hyper-vigilant nose, a change for sure.

I'm excited. I think that's part of the plan, too. There was a kind of induction period after Olivier came on board. Quiet - nothing heard. Now things are happening! We're seeing the fruition of what's been going on - things that were brewing. I think Junior is starting to grab the steering wheel. Good deal! Gently - no swerves or skids allowed! :wink:

Hope for the best - plan for the worst! YES! There you go! Where's my sunscreen? :coolold:
 

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