Can you help me find Heliotropex N (IFF)?

[Shrike]

I hate to ask, but I've exhausted every other source I know of.

I'm looking for Heliotropex N. I've tried Anisyl Alcohol and Heliotropin Replacer. Anisyl Alcohol doesn't hit the same blending balance and Heliotropin is only available at 20% power. That doesn't work. I've plowed through several alternatives, but can't find anything that works closely enough to fit. This is a very important ingredient for me and P.A. has been out for months.

So. Do you know where I can find Heliotropex N (IFF)?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Deleted member 26279681]

Hexapus has some here

 

[pkiler]

Oh Gosh, I wonder why PA had to reduce the Heliotropin content in their replacer...???
It used to be 50/50.

 

[Big L]

I got it recently from de Hekserij. You can find under this page: https://www.hekserij.nl/shop/parfum-geur/geurstoffen/heliotropex-n-iff/

 

[Bill Roberts]

It is no Heliotropin replacement, IMO. Or at any rate I felt not.

On PA's Heliotropin, it is indeed a shame they went to the mere 20 percent strength.

 

[Deleted member 26261516]

Heliotropin is available at 50% in DPG from directpcw -> https://www.directpcw.com/fr/familles-olfactives/170-heliotropin-50-dpg.html

 

[pkiler]

Heliotropin is available at 50% in DPG from directpcw -> https://www.directpcw.com/fr/familles-olfactives/170-heliotropin-50-dpg.html

That sounds like really the best possible solution for Perfumers who want / need Heliotropin by itself...
Even for me it requires more steps than commonly needed for other materials, to obtain in a pure state.

 

[Bill Roberts]

On top of this, DPG could easily be removed from the heliotropin if desired, as it is miscible with water while heliotropin is very little soluble.

 

[Shrike]

Thank you for all the links! I'll be checking them out today. Hopefully I can find one that works.

Is there a published process for removing Heliontropin for BB?

 

[Bill Roberts]

It would be relatively difficult. Column chromatagraphy perhaps, or possibly as there is some slight solubility of heliotropin in water, shaking against a relatively large volume of water and then extracting with a volatile organic solvent, or perhaps vacuum distillation though its vapor pressure is low andboiling point fairly high. I don't see a truly easy way, and have tried none.

Remotely possible perhaps: Sometimes solubility of a material is markedly better at higher temperature such as 70 C than at room temperature. One could try 5 parts of the 20% to say 100 parts water at such temperature, separare water from undissolved BB, and then cool in refrigerator to see if crystals are recovered at reasonable yield. I doubt it but couldn't rule it out. I don't have any 20 percent to try nor will I be buying it.

A very likely outcome of trying the above would be losing the material that was tried. Written only because you asked specifically and that is the only minimalistic method I can think of even maybe having any possible chance at all.

 

[Shrike]

It would be relatively difficult. Column chromatagraphy perhaps, or possibly as there is some slight solubility of heliotropin in water, shaking against a relatively large volume of water and then extracting with a volatile organic solvent, or perhaps vacuum distillation though its vapor pressure is low andboiling point fairly high. I don't see a truly easy way, and have tried none.

Remotely possible perhaps: Sometimes solubility of a material is markedly better at higher temperature such as 70 C than at room temperature. One could try 5 parts of the 20% to say 100 parts water at such temperature, separare water from undissolved BB, and then cool in refrigerator to see if crystals are recovered at reasonable yield. I doubt it but couldn't rule it out. I don't have any 20 percent to try nor will I be buying it.

A very likely outcome of trying the above would be losing the material that was tried. Written only because you asked specifically and that is the only minimalistic method I can think of even maybe having any possible chance at all.

I really appreciate the response! I suspected that any attempt would risk losing the material altogether. It was kind of a last ditch thought if I couldn't find any appropriate materials.

 

[needaname]

I do not know if it will make things easier if you can import raw Heliontropin. But if you want to go down that route and get Heliontropin you can reach out to Nishant Aromas. These are the same people who used to run CG Herbals a store for aroma chems and essential oils out of India. I know they stock pure Heliontropin/PIPERONAL. They used to ship internationally so it might be worth checking if they can get you some. Although I have never used their Heliontropin so do not know what their quality is like. Unfortunately their aroma chems can be hit or miss sometimes in terms of quality control.

In case you have trouble contacting them let me know, I will DM you their contact details.

 

[perfumum]

Thank you for all the links! I'll be checking them out today. Hopefully I can find one that works.

Is there a published process for removing Heliontropin for BB?

Do so at your own risk: in most jurisdictions you will be immediately in possession of a schedule 1 drug precursor if you successfully isolate the pure material. Even the 50% solution is risky legally, given the advice here about how to purify it. The whole point is that you are not allowed piperonal without a license in most countries, and are not allowed easy-to-separate mixtures either.

 

[Shrike]

Do so at your own risk: in most jurisdictions you will be immediately in possession of a schedule 1 drug precursor if you successfully isolate the pure material. Even the 50% solution is risky legally, given the advice here about how to purify it. The whole point is that you are not allowed piperonal without a license in most countries, and are not allowed easy-to-separate mixtures either.

I see. I didn't know this or I wouldn't have asked. Apologies for that!

I don't plan to, anyway. Not if I lose the material if I mess it up - which I likely would.

The march continues for Heliotropex N!

 

[NanashiSaito]

I had asked PA about this a few months ago and received the following response:

"Heliotropine and Benzaldehyde are regulated by the DEA (Drug Enforcement Administration), and they are not permitted to be sold pure without registering with the DEA via regulated suppliers. We are permitted to purchase, but not resell it pure. We are required to 'dilute and alter' this material to a point where it cannot be reverted back to its pure form, which is why we dilute them and resell them the way we do. "

 

[loyalandtrue77]

Deleted.

 

[Bill Roberts]

Yes. Personally I use moderately hot water bath for such occasions. (I haven't had to do this with Heliotropin as mine is not diluted.)

Microwave is possible too but cannot be recommended in general because not all aromamaterials are stable to microwaves*, so the simplest thing is just to avoid microwave warming. It also can be extraordinarily easy to overheat in a microwave, even if using "defrost" setting.

*Cis isomers can be converted to trans or vice-versa, and Schiff Base reactions can occur very rapidly with applied microwave energy. It is possible that there is more besides this that I don't know about.

 

[loyalandtrue77]

Thanks Bill, I’ll give the hot water bath a go.