Can we stop calling them oriental fragrances

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Trebor

Well-known member
Apr 8, 2006
Many fragrance concepts alluded/alludes to the days of colonialism... but it doesn't stop people from admiring or wearing them.

While the world has greatly changed, since the industry first coined of the term, attempting to retroactively rewrite every aspect of history is, IMHO, both irrational and disingenuous.

What next? Black edition bottle releases being regarded as racist because of their "blackface connotations"?
 

KBF1972

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Aug 23, 2013
Many fragrance concepts alluded/alludes to the days of colonialism... but it doesn't stop people from admiring or wearing them.

While the world has greatly changed, since the industry first coined of the term, attempting to retroactively rewrite every aspect of history is, IMHO, both irrational and disingenuous.

What next? Black edition bottle releases being regarded as racist because of their "blackface connotations"?



Agree 100%
 

motorcade

Well-known member
Dec 21, 2020
What next? Black edition bottle releases being regarded as racist because of their "blackface connotations"?

How about "churchy" smelling fragrances? Isn't it a biased and loaded term, with its presupposed link to Christianity, even though "church" is a central concept in, say, Scientology too?
 

Sultan al Hindi

Well-known member
Feb 5, 2020
I don’t feel right using this term or seeing this term now in 2021. Does anyone else find it out of place to call a style of fragrances “orientals”?
Use of this term for fragrances seems out of place. I don’t think I felt this way 3-5 years ago, maybe I did, but it seems even less appropriate now.

I have Asian heritage and I couldn't care less mate, don't find the term offensive at all.

Thank God these are the only problems you're dealing with atm.
 

Sultan al Hindi

Well-known member
Feb 5, 2020
Many fragrance concepts alluded/alludes to the days of colonialism... but it doesn't stop people from admiring or wearing them.

While the world has greatly changed, since the industry first coined of the term, attempting to retroactively rewrite every aspect of history is, IMHO, both irrational and disingenuous.

What next? Black edition bottle releases being regarded as racist because of their "blackface connotations"?

Well said!!!
 

Hugh V.

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2016
What next? Black edition bottle releases being regarded as racist because of their "blackface connotations"?

That's not really comparable since the color black itself doesn't allude to blackface.

But what about actual problematic things related to fragrances?

Yves Saint Laurent has a fragrance called "Opium" which glorifies an illegal and harmful drug.

Azzaro's Wanted is doing its own contribution to gun culture by having the bottle resemble the barrel of a pistol.

Michael Germain apparently has a fragrance called "Sexual Sugar Daddy" which just normalizes the practice of older rich men paying younger women to "date" them.

Not to mention that just about every perfume ad sexually objectifies men and women. There's all kinds of equally or worse problematic things on display in the fragrance industry.

It reminds me of that one lady who was trying to get some fame by attempting to cancel an Asian-owned business called "Trap Tea-The Boba Plug." She claimed they were appropriating black culture. Nevermind that "trap houses" and "the plug" are terms that refer to drug dens and drug connects. Instead of rightfully calling out the business for normalizing drug dealer slang, she instead wanted to claim drug dealer culture as black culture.
 

FCM415

Well-known member
Jan 25, 2018
So to recap,

Calling fragrances an oriental, seems ok and unrelated to....

Calling people of Asian heritage Oriental, is outdated and derogatory
 

Nastka

Well-known member
Mar 6, 2011
Nowadays, the name doesn't suggest any orientalist connotation to me, not any more than many other geographic terms that need not be related to the actual place. But, as usual, it's up to people of Asian origin to decide whether the term is ok or not.

Absolutely agree. The word may have been used to denote 'The East' (very broad term - some old definitions of the word 'Orient' meant it started as closely as far Eastern Europe) in a fetishised way. In my mind, it's an antiquated geographical term. I have never seen or heard it being used in a derogatory manner or referring to a human being of Asian descent either.

Prejudice against Asian people (which in the case of Far East Asians has been amplified further by Covid) is very real and serious, but concentrating on the word 'Oriental' is kinda missing the point in my opinion.

The problem is nowadays everything offends someone somewhere. It’s a very slippery slope when we start banning everything because a handful of people find it inappropriate. This thread is a perfect example of that. The OP obviously finds the word “oriental” troubling. The word in itself describes a particular region and several people of Asian decent have said it doesn’t bother them on this thread. The irony of all this cancelling is that it’s often not even the actual people affected who are offended by the word, but rather people who really don’t have anything better to do and it has nothing to do with them.

This. Most of the noise comes from people who want to virtue signal. Sadly, the voices and opinions of the who are actually affected are lost in this.
 

Sultan al Hindi

Well-known member
Feb 5, 2020
So to recap,

Calling fragrances an oriental, seems ok and unrelated to....

Calling people of Asian heritage Oriental, is outdated and derogatory
Is this an American thing to use the term oriental in a derogatory way towards Asians?

As a European, I didnt even know it was a thing until quite recently and even then it was related to this very question.
We have a quite prominent university in the UK which uses the term in its name and as far I'm aware they've never had an issue.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
 

Mudassir

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2007
The problem is nowadays everything offends someone somewhere. It’s a very slippery slope when we start banning everything because a handful of people find it inappropriate. This thread is a perfect example of that. The OP obviously finds the word “oriental” troubling. The word in itself describes a particular region and several people of Asian decent have said it doesn’t bother them on this thread. The irony of all this cancelling is that it’s often not even the actual people affected who are offended by the word, but rather people who really don’t have anything better to do and it has nothing to do with them.

Completely agree. This last year and a half has made it all clear to me what "white man's burden" has meant over the centuries. Getting offended on someone else's behalf, and forcing them to feel offended and get all riled up primarily driven by people who have absolutely no connection with the people they are feeling offended for, sipping on their $6 lattes and living in million dollar homes. If whatever utopia one believes in, cannot start with acknowledging the world of 2021 is much fairer than the world of 1960's or 1970's, or even 1990's, then one is going to find hurt in anything and everything.
 

Mudassir

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2007
I have Asian heritage and I couldn't care less mate, don't find the term offensive at all.

Thank God these are the only problems you're dealing with atm.

It's quite ironic how the woke mob is not finding offence in stripping over half of the Asia being called Asian. "Asian", in the context of USA, means bundling everybody from the far east all the way to China as one "race". If anything, the woke mob should be taking offence at the term itself, as the whole idea behind it is the formation of noses predominantly in that part of asia - regardless of race or culture.
 

Shadowartisttxl

Well-known member
Mar 25, 2016
Is this an American thing to use the term oriental in a derogatory way towards Asians?

As a European, I didnt even know it was a thing until quite recently and even then it was related to this very question.
We have a quite prominent university in the UK which uses the term in its name and as far I'm aware they've never had an issue.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

Edward Said traced it to the Brits and French, and only was it later developed in America.
Not to say I agree with the critique, but that's at least the way the 'academic understanding' has been formulated since day 1.
 

FCM415

Well-known member
Jan 25, 2018
Is this an American thing to use the term oriental in a derogatory way towards Asians?

As a European, I didnt even know it was a thing until quite recently and even then it was related to this very question.
We have a quite prominent university in the UK which uses the term in its name and as far I'm aware they've never had an issue.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

I am not sure but my take is that the terms oriental and orient, to denote geography, region, or branding is more or less a non issue. I mean, in Japan, a watch brand is named Orient. Up and down Asia, a high end hotel "chain" is the Mandarin Oriental. and so on and so on.

Calling someone Oriental like "that Oriental man over there" at best is outdated and at worst considered derogatory. Like everything else, this can be denied and disagreed on.

Just a comment...This pushback on the so called cancel culture, I do find interesting as nearly every side takes or has taken part in it since time immemorial. Name something that cancel culture is trying to cancel and give yourself and who you identify with a few minutes to reflect on if you or your own has canceled or pushed to suppress ideas, persons, groups, freedoms or what have you..in effect to cancel.
 

ultravisitor

Well-known member
Nov 4, 2014
Most of the noise comes from people who want to virtue signal. Sadly, the voices and opinions of the who are actually affected are lost in this.

Again, I'll point out that not a single Asian person has spoken up to say that this particular usage of the term "Oriental" is offensive to them. What is the point of this conversation if it's not directed by Asians? It seems that it's really about white people/non-Asians and their feelings because all of the Asians who have chimed in have said that it doesn't bother them, myself included.

If white people/non-Asians want to do something that helps the Asian community, then donate some of your time or money to an Asian cause or start giving your business to Asian-owned businesses. Your hot air doesn't make a damn difference when all you're doing is talking about an issue that we find of little real consequence.

I guess it's a lot more difficult to give up your time and money than it is your hot air, though, huh?
 

KBF1972

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Aug 23, 2013
Again, I'll point out that not a single Asian person has spoken up to say that this particular usage of the term "Oriental" is offensive to them. What is the point of this conversation if it's not directed by Asians? It seems that it's really about white people/non-Asians and their feelings because all of the Asians who have chimed in have said that it doesn't bother them, myself included.

If white people/non-Asians want to do something that helps the Asian community, then donate some of your time or money to an Asian cause or start giving your business to Asian-owned businesses. Your hot air doesn't make a damn difference when all you're doing is talking about an issue that we find of little real consequence.

I guess it's a lot more difficult to give up your time and money than it is your hot air, though, huh?



Boom! (mic drop)
 

Mudassir

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2007
Again, I'll point out that not a single Asian person has spoken up to say that this particular usage of the term "Oriental" is offensive to them. What is the point of this conversation if it's not directed by Asians? It seems that it's really about white people/non-Asians and their feelings because all of the Asians who have chimed in have said that it doesn't bother them, myself included.

If white people/non-Asians want to do something that helps the Asian community, then donate some of your time or money to an Asian cause or start giving your business to Asian-owned businesses. Your hot air doesn't make a damn difference when all you're doing is talking about an issue that we find of little real consequence.

I guess it's a lot more difficult to give up your time and money than it is your hot air, though, huh?

Well said. But for the woke mob, we "asians" being the most financially successful demographic in USA , are beneficiaries of "white supremacy". There is a new term out there in the woke circle to explain away the success of any non-white "races"; "multi-racial white". I am a bit perturbed with this snowball in the past couple of years of shutting down any kind of prejudice, real or (mostly) perceived because some interests are actively searching for something to get behind. Preconceptions and prejudices are a part of life. Let them play out and be talked over, rather than get a shame mob after anything that moves.
 

LadyDragonFire

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Jul 21, 2011
It's quite ironic how the woke mob is not finding offence in stripping over half of the Asia being called Asian. "Asian", in the context of USA, means bundling everybody from the far east all the way to China as one "race". If anything, the woke mob should be taking offence at the term itself, as the whole idea behind it is the formation of noses predominantly in that part of asia - regardless of race or culture.

Also..I know one person (who shall forever remain nameless) who is "part of" the "woke mob" now (oh guess what! He's a straight white male from British heritage!) and he is actually kind of a bad person. That fact in itself puts me off the whole thing unfortunately.
 

Nastka

Well-known member
Mar 6, 2011
Again, I'll point out that not a single Asian person has spoken up to say that this particular usage of the term "Oriental" is offensive to them. What is the point of this conversation if it's not directed by Asians? It seems that it's really about white people/non-Asians and their feelings because all of the Asians who have chimed in have said that it doesn't bother them, myself included.

I don't disagree with you. When I said that people's voices are lost in all this noise, what I meant was that a noisy, mainly white majority are discussing something that affects the Asian diaspora, who don't get a word in sideways, regardless whether their opinion might be 'for', 'against' or 'somewhere in the middle'.

If white people/non-Asians want to do something that helps the Asian community, then donate some of your time or money to an Asian cause or start giving your business to Asian-owned businesses. Your hot air doesn't make a damn difference when all you're doing is talking about an issue that we find of little real consequence.

I guess it's a lot more difficult to give up your time and money than it is your hot air, though, huh?

I'm sure the rest of your statement wasn't directed at me personally, but again, I don't disagree with you.
 

Proust_Madeleine

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2019
Again, I'll point out that not a single Asian person has spoken up to say that this particular usage of the term "Oriental" is offensive to them. What is the point of this conversation if it's not directed by Asians? It seems that it's really about white people/non-Asians and their feelings because all of the Asians who have chimed in have said that it doesn't bother them, myself included.

If white people/non-Asians want to do something that helps the Asian community, then donate some of your time or money to an Asian cause or start giving your business to Asian-owned businesses. Your hot air doesn't make a damn difference when all you're doing is talking about an issue that we find of little real consequence.

I guess it's a lot more difficult to give up your time and money than it is your hot air, though, huh?

This is simply untrue. Regardless of how you feel about the subject, there are ABSOLUTELY Asian fragrance enthusiasts who have spoken up on this issue. Yves_spider_smells being one of them. I’m not going come on here and tell you all what YOU should do. But pretending that this conversation is a “woke mob cancel culture non-issue” just isn’t the case. It hurts and offends some people. Do with that what you will!

For me it’s a simple thing, I know three Asian Americans in my inner circle who find the term offensive, so I don’t use it. Calling a perfume an “Oriental” vs calling it an “amber” or a “spicy woody floral” or whatever other term exists for it just doesn’t matter to me at all. So why would I cling to it if it hurts people I love? I don’t know. It seems like an incredibly dumb thing to be so attached to.

But as with all things fragrance: Your mileage may vary.

On a separate note, if anyone would like to bid on the AAPI raffle ive been working on, it would be much appreciated. Thanks to ultravistor for reminding me!

https://rafflecreator.com/pages/478...an-american-&-pacific-islander-community-fund
 
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darinaldi

Well-known member
Jun 8, 2018
There is so much pearl-clutching in this thread. It's a disappointment, because no matter where your opinion falls or who started this thread, this could have been an interesting discussion.

I honestly don't understand why people are so afraid of stepping back and taking a look at one's language; in my opinion it should be examined periodically even if you decide that everything is perfectly fine as it is. Words, attitudes, and cultural sensibilities all change over time and refusing to even acknowledge or discuss this is sticking one's head in the sand.

There is some of that in this thread, and then post after post of people crying over "outrage culture" and "woke mobs" and "PC culture." The fact that they're so obviously offended over their perception of people being offended appears to be lost on them. The apex of this is the person (in the very same post) exclaiming both how everyone these days is so thin-skinned and constantly offended, and also that they're so upset this question was asked that they're considering leaving Basenotes forever. That is Shakespearean levels of dramatic irony.
 

ultravisitor

Well-known member
Nov 4, 2014
I don't disagree with you. When I said that people's voices are lost in all this noise, what I meant was that a noisy, mainly white majority are discussing something that affects the Asian diaspora, who don't get a word in sideways, regardless whether their opinion might be 'for', 'against' or 'somewhere in the middle'.



I'm sure the rest of your statement wasn't directed at me personally, but again, I don't disagree with you.
I was actually agreeing with you.
 

Mudassir

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2007
It is a woke mob indeed. If someone is feeling hurt with a fragrance being classified as "oriental", where the culture they come from doesn't feel that hurt in that part of the world for decades, if not centuries, then it is really based on one side of the political spectrum that has increasingly treated every single minority as a petulant child that needs to be coddled. If I had an "asian friend" who was feeling hurt with "oriental" references, it would be more helpful in lessening that hurt by challenging "oriental" has just as much of a western, or african, or middle eastern, or certain parts of "Asian" history by merely pointing out all fragrances all over the world with some spiritural/ritualistic significance behind them are "oriental". That would be a good start; not coddling.
 

Emanuel76

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2018
Does anyone else find it out of place to call a style of fragrances “orientals”?
No.

BTW, I'm a huge admirer of China (and other Asian nations).

-----


You remind me of this:

defa617273f2d92d0f5d0dc5bb88ddfd196eaa6f5381d3f273e02942770d76b5_1.jpg
 

furrypine

Community Manager
Staff member
Moderator
Basenotes Plus
Mar 4, 2007
There is so much pearl-clutching in this thread. It's a disappointment, because no matter where your opinion falls or who started this thread, this could have been an interesting discussion.

I honestly don't understand why people are so afraid of stepping back and taking a look at one's language; in my opinion it should be examined periodically even if you decide that everything is perfectly fine as it is. Words, attitudes, and cultural sensibilities all change over time and refusing to even acknowledge or discuss this is sticking one's head in the sand.

There is some of that in this thread, and then post after post of people crying over "outrage culture" and "woke mobs" and "PC culture." The fact that they're so obviously offended over their perception of people being offended appears to be lost on them. The apex of this is the person (in the very same post) exclaiming both how everyone these days is so thin-skinned and constantly offended, and also that they're so upset this question was asked that they're considering leaving Basenotes forever. That is Shakespearean levels of dramatic irony.

Wise words. We are not going to censor the use of the word, but why not have a considered discussion about it? It's being questioned outside of Basenotes as well.
 

ultravisitor

Well-known member
Nov 4, 2014
This is simply untrue. Regardless of how you feel about the subject, there are ABSOLUTELY Asian fragrance enthusiasts who have spoken up on this issue.

Great. I never said they don't exist. They're just not in this thread. Let them speak on the issue. We don't need white people to do it for us.

A discussion led by white people about issues concerning Asians is only about white feelings.

Your time and money would be better spent donating to Asian causes and in frequenting Asian businesses.
 

Taskphorce01

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2013
BTW some politically correct twat over at Fragrantica has changed the ‘Oriental’ category to ‘Amber’. Now Opium, which has always been known as an Oriental, is categorised as an ‘Amber Spicy’. The internet is being rewritten so make sure to keep your books, physical tangible things as proof of the way things once were. Eventually all of history will be changed and generations will be Gaslighted. This is straight out of Orwell’s 1984 right here. George Orwell conveyed it as

“Who controls the past controls the future: Who controls the present controls the past.”

I left Fragrantica for VERY SIMILAR reasons. They are horrible at updating their directory and it would take me months to get a response from them to add a fragrance into the directory. I also left Parfumo because the sensitive extremists there refuse to add the word “Man” or “Men” into any new release which ACTUALLY has the word MAN or MEN in its name. I literally battled with the ADMINS when trying to submit/enter a fragrance into their Research Directory. I added 88 into their directory then they refused to delete my account so I was forced to make them delete me with a ban. They sure as hell kept all of my submissions and photos in their directory. The ADMINS refused to add Henry Jacques Shama Man, Henry Jacques Musk Oil Classe Men, HJ Ambre Man, ETC ETC. They would instead list it as Musk Oil Classe, or Ambre or Shama. They changed one perfume for me to it’s ACTUAL entitled name then refused after that claiming the labeling and use of “Men or Man” in their directory is forbidden. They also refuse to actual ingredients listed by the perfumer into the note section and change the notes around to what they believe they should be. Snarky PC sensitive extremist snowflakes who refuse to have a rational discussion.
 

KBF1972

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Aug 23, 2013
I left Fragrantica for VERY SIMILAR reasons. They are horrible at updating their directory and it would take me months to get a response from them to add a fragrance into the directory. I also left Parfumo because the sensitive extremists there refuse to add the word “Man” or “Men” into any new release which ACTUALLY has the word MAN or MEN in its name. I literally battled with the ADMINS when trying to submit/enter a fragrance into their Research Directory. I added 88 into their directory then they refused to delete my account so I was forced to make them delete me with a ban. They sure as hell kept all of my submissions and photos in their directory. The ADMINS refused to add Henry Jacques Shama Man, Henry Jacques Musk Oil Classe Men, HJ Ambre Man, ETC ETC. They would instead list it as Musk Oil Classe, or Ambre or Shama. They changed one perfume for me to it’s ACTUAL entitled name then refused after that claiming the labeling and use of “Men or Man” in their directory is forbidden. They also refuse to actual ingredients listed by the perfumer into the note section and change the notes around to what they believe they should be. Snarky PC sensitive extremist snowflakes who refuse to have a rational discussion.


Wow. They didn’t want to list the word “man” or “men” for a fragrance that has it in the name? LMAO. Can’t wait to see who jumps in and defends that. Just insanely ridiculous.
 

Sheik Yerbouti

oakmoss fiend
Basenotes Plus
Jul 20, 2017
If you are easily offended by the word Oriental then Britain should probably be avoided as your head may explode if you visit many High Streets as you will find many Chinese owned & run restaurants/takeaways called Oriental Palace, Oriental Dragon, Oriental Express, Oriental Chef etcetera etcetera.

Does anyone get that offense has been weaponised as a way for people to censor other people with opposing viewpoints? If someone finds the word ‘green’ offensive should I suddenly reorient my entire use of language around their idiotic offence? No I’ll politely tell them to fuck right off and happily continue with the rest of my day.
 

GoldWineMemories

Well-known member
Nov 22, 2019
BTW some politically correct twat over at Fragrantica has changed the ‘Oriental’ category to ‘Amber’. Now Opium, which has always been known as an Oriental, is categorised as an ‘Amber Spicy’. The internet is being rewritten so make sure to keep your books, physical tangible things as proof of the way things once were. Eventually all of history will be changed and generations will be Gaslighted. This is straight out of Orwell’s 1984 right here. George Orwell conveyed it as

“Who controls the past controls the future: Who controls the present controls the past.”

You're just confused Sheik. The term was never oriental. The term was amber. The term was always amber. Would you like to visit a cafe with me?
 

Taskphorce01

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2013
If you are easily offended by the word Oriental then Britain should probably be avoided as your head may explode if you visit many High Streets as you will find many Chinese owned & run restaurants/takeaways called Oriental Palace, Oriental Dragon, Oriental Express, Oriental Chef etcetera etcetera.

Does anyone get that offense has been weaponised as a way for people to censor other people with opposing viewpoints? If someone finds the word ‘green’ offensive should I suddenly reorient my entire use of language around their idiotic offence? No I’ll politely tell them to fuck right off and happily continue with the rest of my day.

Spot on! BRAVO! Facebook, Twitter and Instagram have definitely weaponized censorship against those in power who oppose their ideologies. Eliminating the word “Oriental” in perfumery would never garner majority support (and the notion doesn’t bide well with BN’ers here.) I am thinking we shouldn’t give any more attention to this post since the creator has been known to stir unnecessary drama.
 

Taskphorce01

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2013
Wow. They didn’t want to list the word “man” or “men” for a fragrance that has it in the name? LMAO. Can’t wait to see who jumps in and defends that. Just insanely ridiculous.

Yes, I’m afraid so. I finally gave up. It doesn’t matter if you provide evidence of your submission. They have an agenda to stay on course with and it is rather nauseating.
 

LadyDragonFire

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Jul 21, 2011
Let me just add, Asian American's are currently being senselessly and brutally attacked, I'm from NYC and I have friends who are scared to go out right now.

Whether you want to believe it or not, the concept of Orientalism, and this includes its use in perfume to denote something "exotic" and foreign, plays a role in dehumanizing Asians, seeing them as a foreign "other" not worthy of compassion. This is the kind of thinking that can allow someone to kick to the ground and brutally beat a 65 year old grandmother. Do you think they could do this if they viewed that person as their own grandmother?

Good for you if you have never faced discrimination and don't understand the intricate way language and labels can make you feel less-than. But how callous and selfish to think because it doesn't effect you, it's not something to worry about. How f*cking trivial to be mad about losing your stupid racist fragrance category name in the wake of people losing their lives!

Honestly my hope in the goodness of humans is hanging on by a sliver after this last year. The only thing that brings me comfort is how vintage many of the vintage loving posters with their vintage ideologies are, and that their time will come before mine.

okay, so it turns out my post was deleted, so no one can see that this was actually changed!

But, just wanted to point something out.
You're saying the double standard I was talking about exists for a reason, and that talking about people being offended by a certain term and talking about discrimination based on gender is not the same thing! (Which, yes, technically I agree, is actually true!)
And..I know what you're saying! I think what it is you're saying is that this type of double standard exists because when we use certain words to describe certain groups of people, it often means there is contempt for that group of people..which can be seen most clearly when you look at examples of hate crimes yes. (Which I admit I had no idea about, because I try to avoid watching the news. That said, I know the type of thing you're talking about has been a problem in the US for like forever.)
But..when men harass women and say annoying things like, "why do you post here in this forum? It's a men's forum!" blah blah whatever..a lot of the time people are realy dismissive and don't take things like that so seriously, and the reason is because people think maybe the man is just bugging the woman because he "likes her" and is trying to get into her pants or something? So..people have more of the response of just rolling their eyes..yeah..no one thinks the guy is going to beat the woman's face into the ground or anything right?
But..the fact of the matter is that sometimes this type of harassment actually can be more serious than it sometimes looks at first on the surface.
Sometimes when men talk to women in a really disrespectful way, it has nothing to do with the man "liking her." And..in fact it's actually pretty dangerous that too many people take this type of attitude toward this kind of thing. A lot of the time when men are like that with women, that actually can also mean he has nothing but contempt for her. (And also probably for women in general.) And..violence specifically against women is a very real thing too. It doesn't get categorized as "hate crime", it just gets called "rape" or "aggravated assault"...and like I said, I think this has to do with a general attitude that our society has. People don't seem to believe that men actually hate women or that violence against women is motivated by hate. People always say it has to do with sexual frustration, and that's probably true too. But it is also kind of just out of contempt as well. I mean..when a man beats the hell out of another man we don't say, "oh yeah..that's just out of frustraton." I have no clue why people always like to say that with women.
Another thing that proves that a lot of people just have an attitude of contempt toward women too is that often when women are raped or the victim of violent assault..if the case goes to court and the woman just tries to talk about it in a normal tone of voice like a normal human being..like..if she's not screaming and crying like a bloody maniac...sometimes the court has like, zero sympathy for the woman, and people will say things like.."oh yeah, this is fake..this didn't really happen." And then lawyers tell women that they need to cry and seem hysterical for their case to be successful. This is true, I'm not making this stuff up. This even happens when there is actual evidence of violence, like bruises or cuts and contusions all over the woman's face or body, or fractured bones. Sometimes you can still get, like, a blank stare from lawyers and judges and they act like they don't care or they don't believe the woman. Even though everybody knows "oh yeah I walked into a door" or "I feel down the stairs" are like the oldest excuses in the book, and are the most common phrases women use and make up when they're trying to stop their abusive boyfriend from going to jail. And people can tell you, "oh yeah, they react like that because they think the woman is trash" or whatever..and that proves exactly my point! That we live in a society that often has an attitude of contempt toward an entire gender. But no one really cares. Think about that one.
 

Sultan al Hindi

Well-known member
Feb 5, 2020
It's quite ironic how the woke mob is not finding offence in stripping over half of the Asia being called Asian. "Asian", in the context of USA, means bundling everybody from the far east all the way to China as one "race". If anything, the woke mob should be taking offence at the term itself, as the whole idea behind it is the formation of noses predominantly in that part of asia - regardless of race or culture.

Only a matter of time mate, don't you worry.

Again, I'll point out that not a single Asian person has spoken up to say that this particular usage of the term "Oriental" is offensive to them. What is the point of this conversation if it's not directed by Asians? It seems that it's really about white people/non-Asians and their feelings because all of the Asians who have chimed in have said that it doesn't bother them, myself included.

If white people/non-Asians want to do something that helps the Asian community, then donate some of your time or money to an Asian cause or start giving your business to Asian-owned businesses. Your hot air doesn't make a damn difference when all you're doing is talking about an issue that we find of little real consequence.

I guess it's a lot more difficult to give up your time and money than it is your hot air, though, huh?

Bravo sir, Hear Hear!



No.

BTW, I'm a huge admirer of China (and other Asian nations).

-----


You remind me of this:

defa617273f2d92d0f5d0dc5bb88ddfd196eaa6f5381d3f273e02942770d76b5_1.jpg

LOL

If you are easily offended by the word Oriental then Britain should probably be avoided as your head may explode if you visit many High Streets as you will find many Chinese owned & run restaurants/takeaways called Oriental Palace, Oriental Dragon, Oriental Express, Oriental Chef etcetera etcetera.

Does anyone get that offense has been weaponised as a way for people to censor other people with opposing viewpoints? If someone finds the word ‘green’ offensive should I suddenly reorient my entire use of language around their idiotic offence? No I’ll politely tell them to fuck right off and happily continue with the rest of my day.

:grin::grin::grin: My MAN!!!!!
 

JON RODGERS

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 5, 2007
Does anyone get that offense has been weaponised as a way for people to censor other people with opposing viewpoints? If someone finds the word ‘green’ offensive should I suddenly reorient my entire use of language around their idiotic offence? No I’ll politely tell them to fuck right off and happily continue with the rest of my day.

smiley_two_thumbs_up.gif
 

AlphaFrank75

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Jul 5, 2017
I left Fragrantica for VERY SIMILAR reasons. They are horrible at updating their directory and it would take me months to get a response from them to add a fragrance into the directory. I also left Parfumo because the sensitive extremists there refuse to add the word “Man” or “Men” into any new release which ACTUALLY has the word MAN or MEN in its name. I literally battled with the ADMINS when trying to submit/enter a fragrance into their Research Directory. I added 88 into their directory then they refused to delete my account so I was forced to make them delete me with a ban. They sure as hell kept all of my submissions and photos in their directory. The ADMINS refused to add Henry Jacques Shama Man, Henry Jacques Musk Oil Classe Men, HJ Ambre Man, ETC ETC. They would instead list it as Musk Oil Classe, or Ambre or Shama. They changed one perfume for me to it’s ACTUAL entitled name then refused after that claiming the labeling and use of “Men or Man” in their directory is forbidden. They also refuse to actual ingredients listed by the perfumer into the note section and change the notes around to what they believe they should be. Snarky PC sensitive extremist snowflakes who refuse to have a rational discussion.

With the logic Parfumo is using they should also ditch the use of Femme, Homme, Uomo, Donna, Donne or any other non English words for women and men.
 
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