building jasmine

gido

Well-known member
May 31, 2008
hi,

i'm interested to know how to create a jasmine-like accord from scratch. i've currently got no money to get some real quality natural stuff, and i am also interested in/fascinated by how the note is build up. it will enable me to leave things out in the mix, for instance, when creating an abstract floral accord. i see it as an opportunity to study this great fragrance, get some insight in how things are possibly wired. :)

what aroma compounds should i get?

currently i have: ylang ylang III, linalool, hydroxycitronellal, these are the ones i think might be useful for the purpose. maybe benzyl salicylate too? indole is being ordered, and so is hedione. on my want list are: benzyl acetate, methyl anthranilate, and also amyl cinnamic aldehyde. am i missing some things? should i order hexyl cinnamic aldehyde. what is the best way to start. any formula's, etc. any help would be great.

thanks.
 
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Irina

Well-known member
Nov 17, 2008
Here are some pointers:

Jasmine formula


Material Recommended upper limit
of dosage

Amylcinnamic aldehyde 24
Lyral 52
Phenylethyl alcohol 35
Methyl anthranilate 10
Benzyl salicylate 14
Benzyl alcohol 50
Benzyl butyrate 10
Benzyl propionate 16
Benzyl acetate 92
Indole 10% 10
Dihydrojasmone 1% 17
Linalyl acetate 10
Linalool 30
alpha-Ionone 8
Musk T 8
Aldehyde c14 peach so called 10% 8
Dimethyl benzyl carbinyl acetate 6


Extension of skeleton formulae

Benzyl phenylacetate 10
para-Cresyl acetate 10% 5
para-Cresyl iso-butyrate 10% 3
para-Cresyl phenylacetate 10% 6
Geraniol 2
Geranyl acetate 7
gamma-Methyl ionone 4 5


Enhancers of natural origin
Top notes: Petitgrain oil, Bigarade, Sweet orange oil
Middle notes: Cery seed oil 10%, Jasmin Absolute, Neroli oil, Orange flower absolute, Rose Otto 10%, Ylang Ylang oil
Base notes: Benzoin resinoid, Balsam of Tolu resinoid, Styrax resinoid, Sandalwood oil East Indian.

I hope this helps some :)
 

janmeut

Well-known member
Aug 11, 2006
Good basic building blocks are:
- Amylcinnamic aldehyde
- Benzyl acetate
- Hedione
- Linalool
- Lyral
- Phenyl ethyl alcohol

Old fashined:
- Hydroxycitronellal
- Benzyl alcohol

Naturals:
- EO Ylang ylang
- EO Petitgrain
- Abs Jasmin (very expensive)
- Res Benzoin
 

gido

Well-known member
May 31, 2008
thank you irina.
and jan, that answer is so close to perfection! great, thanks a lot.
after my next order, i will have everything on the first list complete, except for the lyral. do you think lyral is a better option to work with than hydroxy? i really like the former, and i had figured already it could be a good building block for a jasmine type note. my first simple instinct was to mix it with some ylang, but the result did not glue. do you think i need the lyral, or can i do the same with hydroxy?
i will do some research on benzyl alcohol. this molecule has not really been on my radar so far. is this the natural fixative that is in the absolute as well or am i mixing things up here? why is this material considered oldfashioned?
would bergamot work instead of petitgrain? what is the difference between them, i have very little idea how petitgrain smells, except that you mention on the hekserij.nl that is used as a cheap substitute for bergamot sometimes.

ps. i do not really care so much about the allergens, sensitizers, etc. i have no plans to to sell anything commercially, i wont even wear anything i make directly my skin, at least not until i have done some extensive research on the issue (not anytime soon). so using hydroxy etc is not an issue for me at all.
ps2. i was suprised that there is no indole on the list. does ylang ylang contain any indole? i would think so, but so far i can only guess what the stuff smells like.
 

Irina

Well-known member
Nov 17, 2008
Hi Gido,
If you'd like, I can help you with some samples. As you're in the Netherlands and all.
I find Lyral to be more 'modern' than Hydroxy, just like Jan says hydroxy is more old-fashioned. Lyral is also 'softer' than hydroxy and you can use more of it in a formula (according to IFRA). Benzy alcohol is a soft faint exotic and slightly floral vanilla that can help to round a blend and is a cheap (exotic floral) filler. Yes, Ylang has 'natural' indole in it, I believe indole to be the stuff that makes narcotic flowers, well narcotic. (Funny, I just realised that although I hate indole on its own, I love narcotic flowers, go figure). Petitgrain smells like bergamot indeed, but imo lacks the fresh quality, it's heavier, woodier. In a jasmine base that should work fine.
Do you follow Max's blog? He's got some nice formulae on jasmine:
http://aromax-on-line.blogspot.com/2009/01/jasmine-meet-aca.html
http://aromax-on-line.blogspot.com/2009/01/jasmine-another-couple-of-formulae.html
 

janmeut

Well-known member
Aug 11, 2006
Lyral is a stronger fragrance than hydroyxcitronellal, besides that hydroxycitronellal is a stronger allergen, therfor its use is restricted in the EU to 1%, where the use of lyral is free. Both are btw restricted by IFRA. A typical jasmine accord has quite a lot Lyral or hydroxycitronellal (or less common: alike substances) in it, and Lyral is not very esxpensive, so I would certainly recommend purchasing Lyral.

Bergamot and petitgrain have certainly things in common, but I don't think you can exchange them here. Bergamot has the typical soft fresh, green linalool / linalyl acetate notes, where petitgrain (also high in linalool and linalyl acetate) has a more tart orange like fragrance. Bergamot combines good with jasmine, but it will add a new note to it, where a little petitgrain will enhance the jasmin fragrance itself. Because petitgrain is a natural its effect is softer than with methyl anthranylate or aurantiol that -when overdosed- might add a chemical / artificial note to the mix.

I consider benzyl alcohol "oldfashioned" because I see it in a lot of older formulas and much less (and in smaller amounts) in newer formulas, the same for hydroxycitronellal. Jasmin absolutes usualy contain a little benzyl alcohol.

Indole is indeed a good addition, but don't use too much and be carefull with adding it. I use it as a 10% or 1% solution in DPG, otherwise it is too easy to ruin a formula. I don't think ylang ylang oils contain indole, maybe a tiny little bit. Jasmin absolute usualy contains indole.
 

gido

Well-known member
May 31, 2008
irina, that is very kind of you. however, i can order these from jan for 2 euro a piece, and i did order the benzyl alcohol. i had to let the lyral go, even when it's only 2 euro, the total costs where growing and it's just one of many things that i feel i need but had to let go.
jan, thanks again for the explanation. btw, good that you mention the dpg, i had no idea that i should dissolve the indole in dpg, so i have added this to my order. i hope that i have all the solvents that i'm going need now.
 
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janmeut

Well-known member
Aug 11, 2006
You probably can use ethanol, I am not sure if that will solve 10%, but that might be possible. Ethanol evaporates every time you have the bottle open, therefor the concentration wil increase over time. Besides that is DPG more versatile, you can use solutions in DPG in fragrances for cosmetics and soap, not only for alcohol based products. Then lastly sometimes a compound will solve better in DPG than in alcohol, I don't know if that is the case with indole.
 

KenGSoHigH

Active member
Feb 17, 2008
The main problem for Jasmine is the condensation between methyl anthranilate and HCA.
This refer to the odor change to "More tea" effect which flat the accord.
 

gido

Well-known member
May 31, 2008
kengsohigh, that must be the schiff base phenomenon i've read about.
methyl anthranilate + aldehyde = schiff base.
i haven't got the methyl anthranilate yet, but i am very curious what is going to happen when i mix this stuff with aldehydes.
i did not order hca (for now) but i do get the amyl cinnamic aldehyde and was planning to use it together for my jasmine-like note.
 
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KenGSoHigH

Active member
Feb 17, 2008
Yep, gido
Schiff base reaction, sometime better sometime worst.

Indeed, I think it is not the big problem if you blend the jasmine which is mean to Jasminium officinale.

But for my fav one like jasmine sambac, I've tried more than 100 batch to get the closest to the natural scent.
too "tea" odor may flat the scent but it cannot be Jasmine Sambac without "tea". ^^
 

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