Arabian & Egyptian Musk

[Shrike]

So, I recently smelled something from a company called Kumba Made - two fragrance oils called Arabian Musk and Egyptian Musk. Looking into Arabian Musk didn't get me very far, and Egyptian Musk only gave me, basically, civet (or natural musk), Frankincense, Myrrh, Patchouli, and Rose.

But mixing those ingredients together didn't produce anything even close.

Does anyone have any insights into building Egyptian Musks, or insights into marketted musks in general? Thanks!

 

[RomanB]

They still use musk ambrette and musk ketone, both with very distinctive odor, both banned in EU.

 

[Alex F.]

They still use musk ambrette and musk ketone, both with very distinctive odor, both banned in EU.

There's a lot of carelessness on here regarding what's banned or restricted (and who's banning or restricting) or not. Please check your info first before contributing to the confusion. There are two easy to use sources online:
- Regarding materials banned from use in cosmetics in the EU: https://echa.europa.eu/cosmetics-prohibited-substances and https://ec.europa.eu/growth/tools-databases/cosing/pdf/COSING_Annex III_v2.pdf (last upd. Nov 11th 2022) [edited to correct URL]
- Regarding IFRA-recommendations: https://ifrafragrance.org/safe-use/library

Musk ambrette (83-66-9) is indeed banned both by the EU regulation on cosmetics and IFRA.
But musk ketone (81-14-1) is not banned. It can contain musk xylene/xylol (which is banned by IFRA and subject to authorisation in the EU) as an impurity, so the IFRA-guideline states that "Musk ketone should only be used if it contains less than 0.1% of Musk xylene" (Source). Annex III to the EU regulation on cosmetics states that musk ketone is restricted to 1.4% for fine fragrance and 0.56% for eaux de toilette (musk xylol to 1% and 0.4% respectively)(Source).

As for Kuumba Made, the company is based in Arizona, so I'm not sure how "authentic" their Arabian and Egyptian musks are. The webpage doesn't give away much information regarding the ingredients, only that the perfumes are oil-based (jojoba and safflower oil).

 

[mnitabach]

So, I recently smelled something from a company called Kumba Made - two fragrance oils called Arabian Musk and Egyptian Musk. Looking into Arabian Musk didn't get me very far, and Egyptian Musk only gave me, basically, civet (or natural musk), Frankincense, Myrrh, Patchouli, and Rose.

But mixing those ingredients together didn't produce anything even close.

Does anyone have any insights into building Egyptian Musks, or insights into marketted musks in general? Thanks!

Mixing together five materials selected to correspond to five "notes" listed for a fragrance is guaranteed to get you nowhere. Any fragrance marketed as "musk" is definitely going to contain large amounts of multiple synthetic musk molecules in combination.

 

[jfrater]

Mixing together five materials selected to correspond to five "notes" listed for a fragrance is guaranteed to get you nowhere. Any fragrance marketed as "musk" is definitely going to contain large amounts of multiple synthetic musk molecules in combination.

That raises a funny point actually - a lot of niche perfume houses these days are starting to list chemicals as "notes" - the most common is Ambrox but I've seen others also.

 

[Shrike]

That raises a funny point actually - a lot of niche perfume houses these days are starting to list chemicals as "notes" - the most common is Ambrox but I've seen others also.

I've seen that. It seems weird to me, too.
And for the record, I didn't just mix those things together and call it good. lol. My last Egyptian Musk try had about a dozen chems.

 

[mnitabach]

I've seen that. It seems weird to me, too.
And for the record, I didn't just mix those things together and call it good. lol. My last Egyptian Musk try had about a dozen chems.

If your attempts included about a dozen aromachemicals, then your description of what you tried is misleading or, at best, very incomplete.

 

[Shrike]

If your attempts included about a dozen aromachemicals, then your description of what you tried is misleading or, at best, very incomplete.

Okay?

Out of curiosity, what about "mixing those ingredients" says that I used only those listed ingredients and did absolutely nothing else? Seems to me that may have been an assumption on your part upon which you based your responses. Instead, you could have asked for more details about what I've done instead of just calling my post incomplete or, worse, misleading.

This post was asking for insight from anyone who has experience or knowledge regarding the formula.

 

[jfrater]

Okay?

Out of curiosity, what about "mixing those ingredients" says that I used only those listed ingredients and did absolutely nothing else? Seems to me that may have been an assumption on your part upon which you based your responses. Instead, you could have asked for more details about what I've done instead of just calling my post incomplete or, worse, misleading.

This post was asking for insight from anyone who has experience or knowledge regarding the formula.

Look at the white musks - I suspect there will be a very large dose of galaxolide at least (it didn't say all natural right?) - other options: muscone, muscenone, habanolide, ethylene brassylate. There are many.

 

[mnitabach]

Look at the white musks - I suspect there will be a very large dose of galaxolide at least (it didn't say all natural right?) - other options: muscone, muscenone, habanolide, ethylene brassylate. There are many.

Galax + eb in combination definitely support a vivid diffusive musk effect.

 

[Shrike]

Look at the white musks - I suspect there will be a very large dose of galaxolide at least (it didn't say all natural right?) - other options: muscone, muscenone, habanolide, ethylene brassylate. There are many.

I agree there, wholeheartedly! I've given Galaxolide, Romandolide, Ambrettolide and Helvetolide a try on this and Helvetolide and Galaxolide in combo seems to get the closest. Ethylene Brassylate tends to carry a heavy powder at the drydown.

The rose just doesn't seem to fit, tried Rose Givco at first but P.E.A. seems to be closest in trace amounts.

 

[Mando]

Ooo Benzyl Benzoate just exudes sexiness in the niche market of now, by the way

 

[jfrater]

Galax + eb in combination definitely support a vivid diffusive musk effect.

They are definitely the workhorses!

 

[jfrater]

I agree there, wholeheartedly! I've given Galaxolide, Romandolide, Ambrettolide and Helvetolide a try on this and Helvetolide and Galaxolide in combo seems to get the closest. Ethylene Brassylate tends to carry a heavy powder at the drydown.

The rose just doesn't seem to fit, tried Rose Givco at first but P.E.A. seems to be closest in trace amounts.

Maybe you need a rose which is sweeter - rose Givco is a replica of Turkish rose otto which is a touch on the bright side due to citral I presume. You might be better suited with Rose Wardia or, even better, my Rose Imperiale which is a classical base (once captive) superior to Wardia and used in its place.

Also, habnolide and helvetolide are synergistic - try a mix of 100 habanolide to 30 helvetolide. Helvetolide brightens musks up - it is my favourite musk and I use it in almost everything - from traces to overdose.

 

[mnitabach]

Maybe you need a rose which is sweeter - rose Givco is a replica of Turkish rose otto which is a touch on the bright side due to citral I presume. You might be better suited with Rose Wardia or, even better, my Rose Imperiale which is a classical base (once captive) superior to Wardia and used in its place.

Also, habnolide and helvetolide are synergistic - try a mix of 100 habanolide to 30 helvetolide. Helvetolide brightens musks up - it is my favourite musk and I use it in almost everything - from traces to overdose.

How does the tenacity on skin of helvetolide compare to galaxolide & ethylene brassylate? I assume it's somewhere in between?

 

[Shrike]

Maybe you need a rose which is sweeter - rose Givco is a replica of Turkish rose otto which is a touch on the bright side due to citral I presume. You might be better suited with Rose Wardia or, even better, my Rose Imperiale which is a classical base (once captive) superior to Wardia and used in its place.

Also, habnolide and helvetolide are synergistic - try a mix of 100 habanolide to 30 helvetolide. Helvetolide brightens musks up - it is my favourite musk and I use it in almost everything - from traces to overdose.

I've noticed that Dorinia SA is MUCH sweeter. Maybe I'll give that shot.

Thanks for the tip on Helvetolide/Habanolide!