Animalis base

[Yuri-G]

Hi. I have had the animalis 1745-03 base for a while now but not used it much. It just seemed so full on.

I decided to grasp the bull by the horns and take up the challenge implied on the Pell Wall website, which is where I bought it:

"They suggest usage at levels up to 4% but if you’re going for something seriously animalic, the IFRA restriction allows it at up to 20%, though in the view of this perfumer, that would need some very serious taming to make anything wearable by most people."

Assuming that the 20% refers to the fragrance concentrate, I came up with the following sketch, leaning into the whole animalic thing with an indolic jasmine, a touch of PCPA and some exaltone. Animalis ended up a bit lower than 20%.

Animalis 138
Jasmine Sambac 17
Lyral 69
Exaltone 35
PCPA 7
Bergamot 346
Iso E Super 346
Oakmoss 7
Vetiver 35

Holy fudge this is awesome! Beast mode vintage filth that lasts over 24 hours. I can't decide whether it's super masculine or super feminine, or both at the same time (I'm quite interested in gender constructs and fragrance but that's an issue for another time). The animalis softens somewhat and sort of blends everything together. It's probably too challenging to modern noses, but is really beautiful IMO.

I'm wondering what's in this stuff. I found the following information, but does anyone know any more?

"Modern Animalis perfume base includes 10-undecanal, linalool, alpha-pinene, β-Caryophyllene, limonene, heaps of cedrol and cedrene alpha."

Does anyone else have experience of overdosing this material? It smells incredibly vintage to me. Can it ever smell modern? I know it's likely in some 70s/80s creations like Kouros. Do any modern fragrances use it I wonder?

 

[mnitabach]

This is a fascinating formula & I'll definitely try it. It's not surprising that it's got bizonkerz longevity with tons of lyral, exaltone, PCPA. Can you please clarify with more specificity some of the materials? First, there are at least two materials I'm aware of sold as "animalis": "Animalis Hypo 27 TEC (Synarome)" & "Animalis 1745-3 Synarome". Which do you have? Second, can you be a bit more specific about your naturals? Thanks!

 

[Yuri-G]

Hi Mike

Thanks for the feedback. It's the 1745-03 base I'm referring to.

The jasmine sambac is from eden botanicals and the oakmoss is the rectfied safer version, also from Pell Wall. The vetiver is a cheapie I bought way back when, so I don't know much about its origin unfortunately. Using a higher grade vetiver would likely be even better. I can't remember which vetiver is supposed to be smoky, but this one is not. It reminds me of whatever vetiver is in Oud Wood by Tom Ford.

tons of lyral, exaltone, PCPA

Three of my favourite things!

 

[Quay Limey]

Three of my favourite things!

Easy there, Von Trapp.

I’ll pop along three different vetiver oils for you to sample. One from Norfolk EO, Harry’s Brazilian and a lovely Haitian variety from Pell Wall that is very similar to that used in LDDM. The Brazilian and the Haitian from Norfolk are quite similar on a strip but confer different effects in blends. You'll love 'em all, I'm sure.

 

[Casper_grassy]

I think in Kouros it was around 7%.

This is an interesting formula, and I agree both Animalis bases can smell very vintage, maybe I will play around with it and see hownit can be modernized.

 

[mnitabach]

I think in Kouros it was around 7%.

This is an interesting formula, and I agree both Animalis bases can smell very vintage, maybe I will play around with it and see hownit can be modernized.

Maybe add a shitton of DHM, coranol, and ambrox?

 

[Yuri-G]

Maybe add a shitton of DHM, coranol, and ambrox?

Please, no ethyl maltol though. The very idea makes me feel queasy!

 

[Yuri-G]

Easy there, Von Trapp.

I’ll pop along three different vetiver oils for you to sample. One from Norfolk EO, Harry’s Brazilian and a lovely Haitian variety from Pell Wall that is very similar to that used in LDDM. The Brazilian and the Haitian from Norfolk are quite similar on a strip but confer different effects in blends. You'll love 'em all, I'm sure.

Yeah I was chanelling my inner Julie Andrews when I wrote that. I also like raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens.

Oh thanks very much - that would be fantastic!

 

[Quay Limey]

I also like raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens.

We know about rain and roses but what materials for a cat's whiskers accord...

 

[Yuri-G]

We know about rain and roses but what materials for a cat's whiskers accord...

If they smell anything like my cat's breath, ambrinol would feature heavily!

 

[Quay Limey]

Thanks. That's another material you've ruined for me...

 

[Big L]

Does anyone else have experience of overdosing this material? It smells incredibly vintage to me. Can it ever smell modern? I know it's likely in some 70s/80s creations like Kouros. Do any modern fragrances use it I wonder?

An interesting challenge, I think Mike is close with his shitton suggestion.

I use Animalis base a lot, usually in the 1-2% range. At this level when balanced properly it's no longer recognizable as the full base, which gives that vintage, Musc Kublai Khan, old lady Sunday morning Church perfume. The effect at the lower dosage is reminiscent of sniffing on the scalp of a loved one.

Up to 10%, I believe I can still do it with relative ease, 20+%... That's already a challenge. I will give it a try soon and share my results.

I also find the gender association very interesting with this one. When well-balanced at a lower dose, I feel it is more masculine, probably through the connotation of beard and head odor. At the higher end of concentration, the base composition itself stands out and brings to mind these older famine perfumes.

 

[mnitabach]

An interesting challenge, I think Mike is close with his shitton suggestion.

I use Animalis base a lot, usually in the 1-2% range. At this level when balanced properly it's no longer recognizable as the full base, which gives that vintage, Musc Kublai Khan, old lady Sunday morning Church perfume. The effect at the lower dosage is reminiscent of sniffing on the scalp of a loved one.

Up to 10%, I believe I can still do it with relative ease, 20+%... That's already a challenge. I will give it a try soon and share my results.

I also find the gender association very interesting with this one. When well-balanced at a lower dose, I feel it is more masculine, probably through the connotation of beard and head odor. At the higher end of concentration, the base composition itself stands out and brings to mind these older famine perfumes.

I just mixed this up at ~10% in EtOH & will try it on skin later. When I sniff the Animalis 1745 Base full strength out of the bottle, I totally get that churchy incensey vibe! I actually think there are some sweet/spicy similarities to the delaire mousse de saxe recreation being sold by PSH. I'd bet there's coumarin, heliotropin, ethyl vanillin in there...

 

[mnitabach]

OK just sprayed on smelling strip & it does smell great! At least for now at the beginning, this smells mega-manly to me, with an enormously vintage vibe. I definitely get a substantial resemblance to Yatagan, by Caron, which is also manly AF. I will report back on skin test. BTW, I'm using John Steele organic Italian bergamot, which is a beast itself & quite herbal, Hermitage oakmoss, and Firmenich vetiver SFE (a super smooth not at all smoky vetiver).

 

[Big L]

When I sniff the Animalis 1745 Base full strength out of the bottle...

I suggest letting it dry on a strip for a while to better understand its "true nature".

Still, yes, I see that church incense vibe. You can try combining it with some Ambrarome to complete that picture.

 

[mnitabach]

I suggest letting it dry on a strip for a while to better understand its "true nature".

Still, yes, I see that church incense vibe. You can try combining it with some Ambrarome to complete that picture.

Yes, I'm quite aware that sniffing materials out of the bottle is almost certain to be grossly superficial & even misleading! 😹 😹 😹

 

[Big L]

I know you know

 

[mnitabach]

OK just sprayed this on skin & it's a very classical chypre accord to my nose!!! It's citrus herbal floral mossy woody/ambery animalic, with excellent diffusion & spaciousness. The balance, at least right after spraying, is great & the different facets definitely each have space to breathe.

ETA: Needless to say, the enormous bolus of limonene from the bergamot evaporates within a few minutes, and this reveals the beautiful & central role it plays in the opening of this fragrance. Now ten minutes after spraying on skin, it is much more animalic-forward. We'll see how it progresses, but my initial instinct is the materials conferring animalic effects could be tuned down to a pretty substantial extent.

 

[Yuri-G]

OK just sprayed this on skin & it's a very classical chypre accord to my nose!!! It's citrus herbal floral mossy woody/ambery animalic, with excellent diffusion & spaciousness. The balance, at least right after spraying, is great & the different facets definitely each have space to breathe.

ETA: Needless to say, the enormous bolus of limonene from the bergamot evaporates within a few minutes, and this reveals the beautiful & central role it plays in the opening of this fragrance. Now ten minutes after spraying on skin, it is much more animalic-forward. We'll see how it progresses, but my initial instinct is the materials conferring animalic effects could be tuned down to a pretty substantial extent.

Thanks for the feedback. Yes the animalic aspect is full on for sure! Maybe it needs something that can confer the brightness of the bergamot but that lasts into the heart.

 

[mnitabach]

Thanks for the feedback. Yes the animalic aspect is full on for sure! Maybe it needs something that can confer the brightness of the bergamot but that lasts into the heart.

Perhaps a touch of citral or citronellyl nitrile would kick up? To be fair, every bergamot is different & the one I used is shifted in the herbal from citrus direction... Regarding the progression, once the gorgeous limonene blast dissipates, this has been pretty linear through three hours on skin (which makes perfect sense given the materials in there). One thing I do wonder is if moderating the animalic aspects would allow the jasmine to speak a bit louder in a positive way.

ETA: BTW, have you tried Yatagan by Caron? I think this is quite reminiscent!

 

[Yuri-G]

I have citral. I will look at incorporating some. Good shout.

Yes you are no doubt right. I very much composed this around the animalis as a kind of experiment to test its limits, so the jasmine is a supporting player really in the fragrance's current form.

 

[mnitabach]

I have citral. I will look at incorporating some. Good shout.

Yes you are no doubt right. I very much composed this around the animalis as a kind of experiment to test its limits, so the jasmine is a supporting player really in the fragrance's current form.

It's a fantastic formula & one can easily envision taking it in many different directions. Of course, getting it to any of those places I'm sure will take work. I am definitely going to give a try to my "modernizing" ideas to freshen it.

Thank you so much for posting! This kind of collective empirical inquiry is vastly enormously more informative & furthering of perfumery knowledge than the endless torrents of completely baseless speculation we are continously subject to here.

ETA: BTW, as it continues to dry down (now past three hours on skin) IMO it is approaching a much more elegant balance with increasing musky floral volume.

 

[mnitabach]

This is seven or eight hours in & goddamn still strong as shit. I commend the absolute beastliness of this composition! It's absolutely vintage huge volume beast mode. As I enjoy the drydown, I'm almost leery of even attempting to "modernize" or "freshen" it, as that is literally the opposite of what this is about. Regarding the feminine/masculine axis, I think it's totally masc. And BTW, I also admire the continuous spaciousness of this composition; at no point in the progression did it ever get tight or closed off. An excellent accomplishment!

 

[Yuri-G]

Thanks Mike! I'm so glad you like it. I usually struggle to achieve 'beast mode', so I was pretty pleased with this.

I think I agree with you that the animalic aspects become slightly dominant in the mid, then it balances out again. A touch of PEA to sweeten and floralise perhaps?

I also agree we should keep it retro! I'm just off to tend to my chest hair.

 

[mnitabach]

The very long drydown approaching 24h on skin is still pretty vivid & seems dominated by a nice accord of exaltone & lyral & residual moss effect.

 

[mnitabach]

Here's my full skin test notes.

 

[ScentAle]

Oh yeah that animalis base is very very long lasting and great addition for the animalic and floreal. For refresh staying in vintage i would try to add some good ylang and a touch of aldehyde c11.

 

[mnitabach]

Another thought for staying in the vintage realm for this formula would be some olibanum material, perhaps supplementing or even supplanting vetiver. Incidentally, the Firmenich vetiver SFE that I used is very smooth as silk, and probably isn't coming forward very much at all in this formula. Could be interesting to try a more prominent vetiver material to see if it helps better balance the animalic. As always with naturals, different versions of materials can take a composition to dramatically different places.

 

[Yuri-G]

I thought patchouli seemed almost too obvious, but that would work with this too.

The animalis base states that it smells partly of costus. Apparently it originally contained natural costus. Does anyone know how close to costus it is and how it compares with costus oliffac?

 

[mnitabach]

I thought patchouli seemed almost too obvious, but that would work with this too.

The animalis base states that it smells partly of costus. Apparently it originally contained natural costus. Does anyone know how close to costus it is and how it compares with costus oliffac?

It doesn't smell to me at all like costus ollifac or costus absolute...

 

[Yuri-G]

It doesn't smell to me at all like costus ollifac or costus absolute...

Thanks. I'll look at getting costus olliffac at some point.

BTW, I think you referred to animalis as having an incense vibe. I'm with you on that. It has always specifically reminded me of headshop incense.

 

[mnitabach]

Thanks. I'll look at getting costus olliffac at some point.

BTW, I think you referred to animalis as having an incense vibe. I'm with you on that. It has always specifically reminded me of headshop incense.

Dirty F'in Hippies! 😹 😹 😹

 

[ScentAle]

Thanks. I'll look at getting costus olliffac at some point.

BTW, I think you referred to animalis as having an incense vibe. I'm with you on that. It has always specifically reminded me of headshop incense.

Costus oliffac is beautifoul. I bought some real costus root oil, but will arrive next week.

 

[fjura]

Costus oliffac is beautifoul. I bought some real costus root oil, but will arrive next week.

Hi.. I was wondering from where you purchased your Costus oil. I’m new to all this and would love a nudge in the right direction. Much appreciated!

 

[ScentAle]

Hi.. I was wondering from where you purchased your Costus oil. I’m new to all this and would love a nudge in the right direction. Much appreciated!

Hello I bought costus in Talia, Italian oil store. They have 2 sections, one for aromas and one for pure naturals.

 

[mnitabach]

Hello I bought costus in Talia, Italian oil store. They have 2 sections, one for aromas and one for pure naturals.

I just bought costus e.o. from Talia & their website is totally hilarious!!! It's like I'm using Netscape in 1998!!!

 

[ScentAle]

I just bought costus e.o. from Talia & their website is totally hilarious!!! It's like I'm using Netscape in 1998!!!

Ahah yes Mike I always thought same, everytime i joijed in website, is like that old basic html sites

 

[mnitabach]

OK, I've got the costus e.o. from Talia & the data sheet asserts that it is approximately 50% costus lactone (also known as costunolide). It definitely smells like costus!!! Now wondering what to try to do with it... Maybe I could try using it as an extended base element for a fougère or chypre???

 

[ScentAle]

OK, I've got the costus e.o. from Talia & the data sheet asserts that it is approximately 50% costus lactone (also known as costunolide). It definitely smells like costus!!! Now wondering what to try to do with it... Maybe I could try using it as an extended base element for a fougère or chypre???

Beautifoul yes and yes! Mike do you think that will age well?

 

[mnitabach]

Beautifoul yes and yes! Mike do you think that will age well?

No idea what you mean by "that will age well".