advice on creating a rich, creamy/caramelic vanilla

texas28

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2016
I've just created a vanilla based fragrance, however the vanilla has more of a dry/powdery type of smell as opposed to a more rich and decadent smell. Here's my current formula:

Bergamot = 0.05
Bitter Orange = 0.10
Cognac Accord 20% = 5
Tobacco Accord 20% = 3.75
Ethyl Vanillin = 3
Vanillin = 9
Vanilla Absolute 50% = 6
Ethyl Cinnamate = 0.25
Benzoin 50% = 4
Isobutavan = 0.5
Bicyclonolactone = 0.25
Heliotropex = 0.20
Coumarex DB = 3
Myrrh 20% = 0.5
Iso E Super = 1.5
Hedione HC = 2
Labdanum 50% = 1
Oakwood CO2 = 0.25
Ethylene Brassylate = 2
Galaxolide 50% = 0.5
BHT = 0.1
Oakmoss 20% = 0.25
Texas Cedar = 0.15

What advise would you give in creating a more rich and creamy vanilla smell? I kind of want to get somewhere akin to what Guerlain SDV is like and how the vanilla is in that fragrance. Obviously I don't expect to be anywhere near in terms of quality to that fragrance, considering it was created by a master perfumer and I'm a total novice but in that category if at all possible. I was thinking about increasing the isobutavan content or maybe even adding in a caramelic aroma chemical. I'm not looking for candy sweet, just a rich sweetness. Anyways, love to hear your suggestions.
 

texas28

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2016
Maybe a tiny bit of ethyl maltol? Or is that too cotton candy sweet?

I've actually never smelled ethyl maltol so I can't say for certain if it will work or not. The description on Perfumers Apprentice sounds about right for what I'm looking for. My only concern is the "strawberry-like" nuance as I certainly do not want to impart that type of smell into my formula. However, I might order some and start out with a tiny amount to see what it does. It's a very popular material in gourmands and I would imagine, one of the key ingredients to enhance sweetness.
 

texas28

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2016
So little update: I decided to go with maltol instead of ethyl maltol and it definitely helped add a little bit more sweetness to the blend. However, it was feeling a bit dense overall, so I've added more bergamot to help brighten it up a little more. Overall I'm pleased but I'm going to let it sit for about a week and see what I think.
 

mnitabach

Well-known member
Nov 13, 2020
So little update: I decided to go with maltol instead of ethyl maltol and it definitely helped add a little bit more sweetness to the blend. However, it was feeling a bit dense overall, so I've added more bergamot to help brighten it up a little more. Overall I'm pleased but I'm going to let it sit for about a week and see what I think.

I'm not sure about maltol, but in my blending experiments with ethyl maltol, a shockingly small dose has been sufficient to add a bit of sweetness. And even slightly higher doses have been sufficient to add "density" (as you put it) & even as one goes higher become opaque to desired notes. So it could be worth also testing effect of just decreasing maltol without changing anything else?
 

skuharev

Member
Sep 20, 2019
Isobutavan, Bicyclonolactone, Heliotropex, Coumarex - it's good for creating creamy vanilla, but that's not enough for caramelic one.

For caramelic you should add
FURFURAL - use dilluted to 10%
SOTOLONE CARAMEL FURANONE dilluted to 1% - carefully, in large doses, it acquires some kind of bitter and unpleasant shade
OCTYL BUTIRATE NATURAL
Furaneol, or strawberry furanone - sweety.

nutty, woody, loud and retro-style is MAPLE LACTONE or CORYLONE by Ventos - very carefully. Up to 0.05% It's very specific.

Brown Sugar Base by SOS
DELTA DODECALACTONE by Bedoukian
DIACETYL NATURAL by Ventos

To make it rich if i get you right
try to add
DIHYDRO COUMARIN up to 4% but not too much
CHIRONIAX® SA 923330 (FIRMENICH)
Dark creamy white musk AURATOUCH

If talking about creamy wood notes - Ebanol and Polysantol.

For creamy i would add some
VANILLIN PG ACETAL №830 by BEDOKIAN
BUTYL BUTYRYL LACTATE by BEDOUKIAN - carefully and i'm not sure you will like it, but give it a try
KOUMALACTONE® 10% TEC 953327 by FIRMENICH
METHYL LAITONE 10% by GIVAUDAN
 

texas28

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2016
Isobutavan, Bicyclonolactone, Heliotropex, Coumarex - it's good for creating creamy vanilla, but that's not enough for caramelic one.

For caramelic you should add
FURFURAL - use dilluted to 10%
SOTOLONE CARAMEL FURANONE dilluted to 1% - carefully, in large doses, it acquires some kind of bitter and unpleasant shade
OCTYL BUTIRATE NATURAL
Furaneol, or strawberry furanone - sweety.

nutty, woody, loud and retro-style is MAPLE LACTONE or CORYLONE by Ventos - very carefully. Up to 0.05% It's very specific.

Brown Sugar Base by SOS
DELTA DODECALACTONE by Bedoukian
DIACETYL NATURAL by Ventos

To make it rich if i get you right
try to add
DIHYDRO COUMARIN up to 4% but not too much
CHIRONIAX® SA 923330 (FIRMENICH)
Dark creamy white musk AURATOUCH

If talking about creamy wood notes - Ebanol and Polysantol.

For creamy i would add some
VANILLIN PG ACETAL №830 by BEDOKIAN
BUTYL BUTYRYL LACTATE by BEDOUKIAN - carefully and i'm not sure you will like it, but give it a try
KOUMALACTONE® 10% TEC 953327 by FIRMENICH
METHYL LAITONE 10% by GIVAUDAN

Wow! Thanks for the suggestions! I've actually added in some sandalwood ACs and I might look into some of the more caramelic ACs you suggested as well as the auratouch musk since I don't think I have enough musk in the blend as it is. I've also already added in some ethyl cyclopentenolone @ 50% in my cognac accord and it has a bit of a caramelic quality to it.
 

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