Accelerating Maceration

milquetoast

New member
Feb 8, 2022
My question is this: Reactions and/or processes in other contexts can often be accelerated by heavy agitation, and so for fragrances I'm wondering if I could similarly speed up the maceration process by shaking the mixture in a bottle really hard for several minutes instead of just waiting X days?

I know I could run some experiments to explore this thought process myself, but setting up the appropriate side-by-sides over time, experimenting with various composition types/styles, and taking precautions to reduce nose fatigue all could be time- and labor-intensive, so I figured I'd ask here first to save myself the trouble, in case this was already a solved problem and others already had experience in this regard.
 

pkiler

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 5, 2007
Do not shake violently and end up oxidizing the scent by the addition of bubbles.
Some people use ultrasonic vibration, (that I've read about), but I've never asked any other professional perfumers about this. Seems like the people who talk about ultrasonic are amateurs, mostly... I've never tried it, myself.
 

milquetoast

New member
Feb 8, 2022
Thanks for the reply! I have a follow-up question about this statement:

Do not shake violently and end up oxidizing the scent by the addition of bubbles.

What effects does oxidation have on a fragrance?
 
Last edited:

milquetoast

New member
Feb 8, 2022
agitation does not accelerate a chemical reaction

My understanding is that agitation can increase the rate of collisions of reactant particles, which should affect the rate of a reaction.
 
Mar 3, 2022
My question is this: Reactions and/or processes in other contexts can often be accelerated by heavy agitation, and so for fragrances I'm wondering if I could similarly speed up the maceration process by shaking the mixture in a bottle really hard for several minutes instead of just waiting X days?

I know I could run some experiments to explore this thought process myself, but setting up the appropriate side-by-sides over time, experimenting with various composition types/styles, and taking precautions to reduce nose fatigue all could be time- and labor-intensive, so I figured I'd ask here first to save myself the trouble, in case this was already a solved problem and others already had experience in this regard.
One thing i learned, rushing things in perfumery does not give good result. A formula i made a month ago ( when i started, I'm a total newbie), i didn't really like. It is very harsh on the nose. I just chuck it in the refrigerator. I just remembered about it yesterday, and sprayed a bit on my skin. It is now smell differently. Quite good.
A quote i really like, ' give it time, and time will treat you well'.
 
Sep 26, 2021
I can’t say, that I’m a pro perfumer. I am however a chemist of auld. I use ultrasonic treatment for all my trial blends and tinctures. It is not a replacement for time. But it is definitely an accelerator. I treat sample blends with 30 mins of ultrasound at 40 degrees celcius. This clearly gives a fast result for evaluation. TInctures i.e. Ambergris I treat the same way. I give it 30 mins. Let rest for a month. Give it 30 mins more and let rest for another month. To me it is fully matured. I have two years old tinctures, and I cannot tell the difference to my two months old ultrasonic treated tinctures. My finished fragrance blends, I just leet rest for a month or so. Why rush. And advantage of ultrasonic treatment is, that it releases any suspended gasses. and it does catalyse the chemical reactions together with the mildly elevated temperature. The lids should be tightly closed. I normally seal the bottles in a vacuum pack.
 

pkiler

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 5, 2007
I use ultrasonic treatment for all my trial blends and tinctures. It is not a replacement for time. But it is definitely an accelerator.
Well, I just looked at ultrasonic cleaners on ebay, and see that there is a potential problem with fluid in glass... Could you possibly provide a couple of pics of your choice of machine, and how you secure the bottle in the device?
 
Sep 26, 2021
Well, I just looked at ultrasonic cleaners on ebay, and see that there is a potential problem with fluid in glass... Could you possibly provide a couple of pics of your choice of machine, and how you secure the bottle in the device? 4DCECBE0-721B-4019-8A94-2EF06E19D4F9.jpeg
I have no problems with glass bottles. Glass is definitely the best transducer of the ultrasonic waves, and what we used at the lab. There is a potential for pressure building up, if theres no headspace. But with the relatively low temperatures, I never had a leak.. Any of these cleaner have a wire basket, as the objects should not touch the walls of the chamber. Other than that, I do nothing to secure the bottles, except I put them in a vacuum bag (I have a kitchen vaccuum packer), but that’s mostly to preserve any labeling. I just have a small device. But it’s suitable for up to 150ml Duran bottles, which I user for tinctures.
 

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