45 minute phone call with Frédéric Malle sales rep

[Jaysin5506]

EDIT: 45 Minute* phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep


Ok I just got off the phone with a Frédéric Male sales person, I have to put these 'facts' to ya'll. Only basenotes will be able to confirm these accusations, and believe me, I want to know! Let me begin with a super quick back story:

A month ago I was browsing basenotes for "where to get free samples" and after reading a few dozen threads I learned that many users just recommend that you simple call major perfume houses and boutiques, or even an email will suffice. Contact a few houses (I was suggested a few houses to try) and explain to them which fragrances you'd like to try samples from. I received free samples from By Kilian, Serge Lutens, Frédéric Male, Anglia Perfumery, just to name a few. I eventually got Frédéric Male to send me a sample of one of each cologne they sel, It took me a few weeks to properly, carefully, work my way through the house. I eventually weeded out which of the colognes I would kill for. Since I live in Baltimore and we are in the middle of a total Summer, repeatedly reaching 100° heat. So I knew I was going to start buying bottles almost immediately.
SIDE NOTE: I have a regular size cologne collection (100-150 bottles) just to keep this as brief as possible i'll get straight to the point. Usually when I purchase cologne bottle, I get the biggest size available. Why would I want the smaller or medium size bottles, They charge more per milliliter when you get the smaller sizes, I aint going for that. I want the best price, dollar per milliliter! ....now, back to my story..
The reason I had to call Frédéric Male was because I had decided to purchase the 100ml bottle of Bigarade Concentrée. When I had my sample I noticed on the little bottle it said 70% VOL. I took that to mean there must be 30% essential oil in this fragrance, and that impressed me. I was looking on the market to make a purchase of a cologne that was basically designed for the blazing Summer heat. And the sample of Bigarade Concentrée was so impressive to me, I didn't even think twice, I ordered myself a bottle. Last Friday I called Frédéric Male and decided to buy the 100ml bottle for $255. The 50ml bottle was going for $175. I wasn't no super math whiz kid, but I can clearly see there is a deal to be had if I buy the 100ml bottle, which I did. So i'm feeling great, I just blew almost three hundred bucks, but I got what I wanted, and deal.

The bottle arrived yesterday, all was well. Quick shipping, good packaging, smelling good, feeling good. Well I took a decant of my new cologne to work last night and got to it. I noticed something that was eating away at me though. On my sample it was 70% VOL. When my bottle arrived box that the bottle was inside said 80% VOL. The actual bottle had on it's label 84% VOL. Ok so I was clearly disturbed, because I knew Frédéric Male sells 2 versions of Bigarade cologne and I was hoping I didn't get bamboozled, or hoped that there wasn't some big mix up. I told myself there has to be perfectly good exclamation for this. I decided I had to call Frédéric Male after work and find out not only why do all these labvels say different percentages on them, but Why does the sample smell better then my big bottle!?!? It was ticking me off to put it lightly.

To kep it short and sweet, the Frédéric Male lady told me, the samples all have higher percentages of oil, and she had some lame excuse and reason for it. but what really made sense to me was when she explained the difference between the 50ml & 100ml bottles. She basically told me the bigger size bottle you buy, not just with Frédéric Male, but with every cologne everywhere, the bigger bottle you buy, it has less and less percentages of oil in them. I told her that is messed up, I paid good money for rthis stuff, and Frédéric Male shouldn't be tying to save money like that. She explained to me, no you actually got a good deal. If you wanted a higher oil percentage, then you shoyuld have ordered the 50ml bottle. and she even went and grabbed the different sized bottles and comfirmed everything right there on the phone. The bigger size bottles all have less oil percentages. Which means a lower concentration. So basically I had to come with terms that from this moment forward, i'll be buying 50ml bottles, so I can get the higher concentrations of cologne, instead of going for the "best deal, price per milliliter"

HAS ANYBODY ELSE EVER HEARD OF ANYTHING LIKE THIS, EVER? She comfirmed everything she was saying to me, live on the phone. And even I can admit, the sample was stronger smelling then my 100ml bottle. I totally wish I would have bough myself a 50ml bottle, and paid a little more. butr I would atleast know I have the better cologne of the two. Yes the difference is slight, but when i'm throwing out these amounts of money, I don't want the "watered down sauce"

Discuss, let's hear your thoughts!!

 

[ajmc]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

Sounds like a hot, steaming pile of BS to me.

 

[hednic]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

Perhaps that's the way the Malle house does it, but I wasn't aware of it until I read what you wrote above. If true, for me it's no big deal, but I can surely understand how it might be for others. Thanks for sharing what you found out.

 

[Akahina]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

Something does not seem right here. Either the information is incorrect or the person you talked to is misinformed? Distributing one named scent in different concentrations based on bottle size is deceptive. Maybe reformulations have weaked the scents over time and they are from different batches? Confusing and if true the information is very disturbing on several levels.

 

[cacio]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

Thanks for sharing, I had never heard or noticed this, but from now on I'll be on the lookout.
Indeed, this would be rather lame, and silly too. The cost of the formula is just a small fraction of the cost of the bottle, so by watering down they're probably saving a dollar or two out of $250. Totally silly.

cacio

 

[IsoESuperman]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

HAS ANYBODY ELSE EVER HEARD OF ANYTHING LIKE THIS, EVER?

To answer that question, no, I definitely have never heard of that tactic. But that would piss me off, especially if had just I paid full retail. My hope is that both of the following are true:

1) The sales rep had no idea what she was talking about. (but it sounds like she was pretty sure of herself, and I doubt you would create a thread and lie about what you saw printed on your Malle products)
2) No other house does this.

But if houses actually do this, I guess that would explain why you save on price per ml when buying bigger bottles. A bit of a scam, if it's true. Especially when the samples are the most concentrated version. I hope it's not, though. It's like heroin dealers giving out free samples of super concentrated dope to people who've never used before, then selling them garbage that's way stepped on once they're hooked. Is that a good Baltimore analogy? Can you tell I've watched The Wire?

 

[Akahina]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

I might add that if this is true and can be proven, FM is opening themselves up to a class action suit. Imagine, if Starbucks sold you a small coffee drink for one price, but the larger one had the same amount of ingredients but with added water.

 

[epapsiou]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

Big BS.
Return it. They don't deserve your money.

 

[hedonist222]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

No way
This cannot be true

Someone email editions de parfum

 

[ajmc]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

To answer that question, no, I definitely have never heard of that tactic. But that would piss me off, especially if had just I paid full retail. My hope is that both of the following are true:

1) The sales rep had no idea what she was talking about. (but it sounds like she was pretty sure of herself, and I doubt you would create a thread and lie about what you saw printed on your Malle products)
2) No other house does this.

But if houses actually do this, I guess that would explain why you save on price per ml when buying bigger bottles. A bit of a scam, if it's true. Especially when the samples are the most concentrated version. I hope it's not, though. It's like heroin dealers giving out free samples of super concentrated dope to people who've never used before, then selling them garbage that's way stepped on once they're hooked. Is that a good Baltimore analogy? Can you tell I've watched The Wire?

LOVED The Wire!
You did good...lol

 

[Akahina]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

Perhaps the 100ml bottle should be called Bigarade unConcentrée. Yes, return the bottle explaining that you expected the same scent you tested in their official sample. This is total bovine manure if true.

 

[IsoESuperman]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

LOVED The Wire!
You did good...lol

:thumbsup: Thanks! This is a very important thread, one which I have no intention of derailing, but I have to say The Wire is quite possibly the best show (drama, at least) I've ever seen. I've never been emotionally invested in a TV show the way I was with it. I typically don't enjoy crime dramas either, but The Wire is in a league of it's own.

Anyway, I really hope this isn't true. Even if they're printing the actual concentrations on the products, it's a pretty slimy business practice.

 

[schnozz]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

This information is contrary to the Malle website. Here is the response to the question: "WHY DO YOU PROPOSE ONLY ONE CONCENTRATION PER PERFUME CONTRARY TO MANY BRANDS?" In the old days brands used to make several versions of the same fragrance, using different concentrates for each of these versions. In the 80’s many brands started offering the same formulae in several concentrations. It then seemed obvious that there is an ideal concentration for each perfume. For this reason, we sell each fragrance in the collection in its optimum concentration. The classifications (EDT, EDP, Extract, etc…) are unofficial. Nevertheless, they are supposed to be related to the concentration level of each fragrance and to the quality of the ingredients that are in their formulae. Lately, this classification has often been used as ways to position fragrances, rather than as a way to describe their true nature, which can be confusing. Should I want to classify the perfumes of our collection, I would say that the quality of the raw materials that we use is always equal or superior to the one found in most perfume extracts. Then as far as concentration is concerned, I would say that: Cologne Bigarade, Angéliques sous la pluie and l’Eau d’Hiver are light fragrances comparable to Eaux de Toilettes. Vétiver Extraordinaire, En Passant, Bigarade Concentrée and French Lover/Bois d’Orage are halfway between Eaux de Toilette and Eaux de Parfums. Musc Ravageur, Iris poudre, Noir Epices, Le Parfum de Thérèse, Lipstick Rose, Lys Méditerranée, Une Fleur de Cassie have should considered as Eaux de Parfums. Une Rose and Carnal Flower, and Portrait of a Lady should be considered as Perfume extracts.

 

[ajmc]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

:thumbsup: Thanks! This is a very important thread, one which I have no intention of derailing, but I have to say The Wire is quite possibly the best show (drama, at least) I've ever seen. I've never been emotionally invested in a TV show the way I was with it. I typically don't enjoy crime dramas either, but The Wire is in a league of it's own.

Sorry OP, won't go off topic after this comment.

Watch The Sopranos. Better than The Wire. My favorite TV drama, ever!

 

[Dane]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

Volume doesn't equate to perfume oil concentration. There are other ingredients in fragrances other than perfume and alcohol. Water, preservatives, etc.

 

[cc1987]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

From a marketing/selling POV this makes sense? sell a sample with a higher oil concentration so you like it and buy the bigger bottle....at a lower oil concentration. Some brands are all about profit, not ethics. Personally i've never come across this but i wouldn't be surprised at all.

 

[mgrigoriev]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

Just went to check my bottle of BC - yep, 84% VOL. used to have a 50 ml bottle of it too, don't find any difference in performance or actual smell...

don't worry too much about it, just spray more. Bigarade Concentree is not very "Concentree" in the first place.

 

[magnus611]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

Can some one with connections get to the bottom of this and confirm it with the insiders in the industry, as this is very disconcerting if in fact is true, which I personally doubt cause splits are done all the time from huge Flacons and the quality is the same as with smaller bottles of specific scents !!! thank you in advance!

 

[asiantoronto]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

Volume doesn't equate to perfume oil concentration. There are other ingredients in fragrances other than perfume and alcohol. Water, preservatives, etc.

+1. But I have no idea why FM would make it in different %'s.

Are you sure your sample had 70%? The ones on eBay appear as 80%.

 

[hitman]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

makes no sense to me that smaller size contains more concentration 😕

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk

 

[Tmoran]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

Just to clarify if a fragrance says 80% vol the only thing that means is that 80% of the contents of the bottle is alcohol. But that doesn't mean that the remaining 20% is fragrance. That 20% is for all substances besides alcohol. The way I understand it each ingredient is listed in order of the amount used most to least.

 

[Oviatt]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

Never been a fan and less so now. I tend to buy smaller sizes whenever possible, so it would be a moot point, but the whole thing smells fishy to me....

 

[Jaysin5506]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

I had a Bigarade Concentrée that stated 70% VOL. My.box for the 100ml says 80% VOL, buthe my glass bottle states 84% VOL..
And I hear your point about what your saying, but the lady Gilda specifically told me the samiles in fact do have more oils. The 50ml bottles have slightly less, and the 100ml bottles have even less oil of them all. We had a good 45 minute conversation, I think I have a photo of my sample where it shows 70% VOL on it. I'll see if I can dig it up.

It makes sense to me why they do it like that. That guy who made the heroine analogy about giving the fiends the good samples, then you make alot of money because they get tricked into purchasing alot of weaker juice. My sample was in fact a slight notch better. By 100ml bottle is freaking good as hell, but I don't want to settle for watered down Concentrée. I'm tempted to order myself a new 50ml bottle this Friday so I'll have both. And I'll do extensive comparisons.

I was in awe and disbelief, Gilda told me to email the Frédéric Malle email and they'll come up with a answer as to why they do this.

 

[NYCBoomBoom]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

For what it's worth, my Bigarade Concentree sample, which I received about a year and a half ago, is 80%.

Edit: Got my bottle of L'Eau D'Hiver out to see what I can find there. Box says 85% vol and the bottle itself says 76.5% vol. No idea what it all means.

 

[Mitchapalooza]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

Now everybody's gonna be going through all their boxes checking the volume%. lol

 

[Leo123]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

I'm more than probably wrong here but I thought that that VOL % thing related to how much total liquid was in the bottle. For example, if it stated VOL 80% I would take it to mean that only 80% of the bottle was full of fluid?
So you knew you weren't being short changed or something like that?
I'm sure I'm laughably on the wrong track here...

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

[Bangkok Hound]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

Now everybody's gonna be going through all their boxes checking the volume%. lol

Forget all that batch number and magnetic/non-magnetic cap nonsense, the cool kids now all talk about volume %.

 

[Diamondflame]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

Never been a fan and less so now. I tend to buy smaller sizes whenever possible, so it would be a moot point, but the whole thing smells fishy to me....

Exactly what I was thinking...

 

[ILikePeeps]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

That's... kind of alarming. I wouldn't think that'd be true about purposely lowering the oil % as the sizes increase. Would that not be illegal? False advertising?

I can understand alc % changing due to reformulation, but two dif alc %'s on packaging and box from the same thing is weird. Maybe it's an older box with a newer bottle (or vice versa), hence the differing alc %'s?

I'm going to check my Musc Ravageur and Portrait of a Lady; both 100ml.

It would be total utter bulls**t if this was true and FM was actually doing this.

I think the lady was/is misinformed, or lying, or something else besides the actual truth. Was she an official FM employee? or was she just an SA for a broad range?

I'm more than probably wrong here but I thought that that VOL % thing related to how much total liquid was in the bottle. For example, if it stated VOL 80% I would take it to mean that only 80% of the bottle was full of fluid?
So you knew you weren't being short changed or something like that?
I'm sure I'm laughably on the wrong track here...

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

No, it might only be referring the percentage of alcohol in the entire composition. It can be 5ml, 10ml, 15ml, 5000000ml. If the composition is the same, the alcohol % will be the same.

100ml bottle. 80% alc = 80ml alcohol, with the remaining 20ml (20%) being fragrance/water/whatever else.

 

[ILikePeeps]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

Alright, my 100ml Musc Ravageur packaging says 85% vol, but the bottle label has 84,5% vol.

100ml Portrait of a Lady packaging says 83% vol; bottle label is also 83%.

What does y'all's say for 100ml size of these two types?

 

[Leo123]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

That's... kind of alarming. I wouldn't think that'd be true about purposely lowering the oil % as the sizes increase. Would that not be illegal? False advertising?

I can understand alc % changing due to reformulation, but two dif alc %'s on packaging and box from the same thing is weird. Maybe it's an older box with a newer bottle (or vice versa), hence the differing alc %'s?

I'm going to check my Musc Ravageur and Portrait of a Lady; both 100ml.

It would be total utter bulls**t if this was true and FM was actually doing this.

I think the lady was/is misinformed, or lying, or something else besides the actual truth. Was she an official FM employee? or was she just an SA for a broad range?



No, it might only be referring the percentage of alcohol in the entire composition. It can be 5ml, 10ml, 15ml, 5000000ml. If the composition is the same, the alcohol % will be the same.

100ml bottle. 80% alc = 80ml alcohol, with the remaining 20ml (20%) being fragrance/water/whatever else.

Interesting! And yes, that theory seems to make more sense than mine!

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

[ILikePeeps]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

I just sent a kind of lengthy e-mail to FM customer service. Hopefully I receive an on-topic and accurate response.

 

[AnthonyG]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

Alright, my 100ml Musc Ravageur packaging says 85% vol, but the bottle label has 84,5% vol.

100ml Portrait of a Lady packaging says 83% vol; bottle label is also 83%.

What does y'all's say for 100ml size of these two types?

My MR (100ml) has the same thing. I hadn't noticed to be honest and I think it's effing weird, bordering on criminal.

 

[MrsDalloway]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

Interesting thread! My travel spray of L'Eau d'Hiver is 80% vol; my 100ml bottle is 76.5% vol (so the bottle could potentially have more oil if that's an indicator). I've been using up the spray so haven't worn the bottle yet but they were bought just a few months apart.

I have official samples of Cologne Indelebile (79%), Vetiver Extraordinaire (88%) and Eau de Magnolia (80%) - anyone got a bottle to compare?

Had a look at my perfumes from other manufacturers but most don't give % vol at all.

 

[rum]

EDIT: 45 Minute* phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

Updated the thread title for you and I also changed the company's name to 'Malle' so it comes up correctly on searches in future. (I won't be changing the post itself though!).

 

[chad888]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

I might add that if this is true and can be proven, FM is opening themselves up to a class action suit. Imagine, if Starbucks sold you a small coffee drink for one price, but the larger one had the same amount of ingredients but with added water.

LOL americans will try and sue over anything :grin:

Every large company does this. In McDonalds for example;
You have a large drink and the same amount of drink comes out that does for a medium cup, its more ice though.
You have large fries and they are taught to hold the box more closed as they shovel the fries in so less go in compared to mediums and smalls.
You pay twice as much for a big mac than double cheeseburger but the only difference is lettuce and an extra slice of bread.


The company save say £1 per large bottle to us, but to them they sell thousands of bottles, theyve saved thousands. And those privy to the concentrations will buy the smaller bottles, meaning the company makes more per ML than they do on large bottles.

I dont know what there is to have a class action suit about, they print the concentrations on the bottle and box ffs. Its down to the consumer to read whats in their product. This whole thread is because somebody has read the small print finally.

 

[Kakihara]

As some basenoters said before, this is business!!!

And all the things we will never know...

 

[Akahina]

Re: 45 phone call with Frédéric Male sales rep

LOL americans will try and sue over anything :grin:

Every large company does this. In McDonalds for example;
You have a large drink and the same amount of drink comes out that does for a medium cup, its more ice though.
You have large fries and they are taught to hold the box more closed as they shovel the fries in so less go in compared to mediums and smalls.
You pay twice as much for a big mac than double cheeseburger but the only difference is lettuce and an extra slice of bread.


The company save say £1 per large bottle to us, but to them they sell thousands of bottles, theyve saved thousands. And those privy to the concentrations will buy the smaller bottles, meaning the company makes more per ML than they do on large bottles.

I dont know what there is to have a class action suit about, they print the concentrations on the bottle and box ffs. Its down to the consumer to read whats in their product. This whole thread is because somebody has read the small print finally.

From what I have known in the beer world, Brits demand an honest pint at a Pub. :beer::beer::beer: Cheers!

 

[yarn]

I am surprised that some people don't seem to think that this is a problem - it is pretty shady practice if proved to be the case in my opinion

 

[Jack Hunter]

I vaguely remember years ago when I purchased French Lover by FM that there were questions been asked about concentration differences. Here is a thread on it I've managed to dig up.

http://www.basenotes.net/threads/22...e-Parfums-regarding-French-Lover-Bois-d-Orage