2,6 nonadienal ( cucumber aldehyde ) in Arranging Fine Perfume Compositions - Brechbill

jsparla

Well-known member
Jun 5, 2011
I see his use is .1 on a total of 1000, that is 1/100%, or .01% indeed and based on a 100% solution (as he states no other value).
If you where to substitute this with a more common 1% solution, it would be like: 10 on a total of 1000, that is 1%.
Based on the -awfully strong- 1% solution i know, i can imagine adding it as much as 1% of a perfume concentrate will overpower.
I use it in traces, indeed, and find the 1% dilution further diluted to .01% more useable.
Unless, you want to create a cucumber perfume ;) that is.
 

Bill Roberts

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2013
I think I recall Brechbill stating that he has not made all of these formulations, or necessarily even any.

EDIT: Specifically, he writes "Whether any particular fragrance in my book works is unknown."

What I originally posted turns out to be, rather than his direct statement, my remembered interpretation of his statement. I suppose it could be that he has made formulas that he did not smell to determine if they worked. But I interpreted it as meaning that some or all of them are paper formulas or cut-and-pastes only.
 
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Chris Bartlett

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Jul 17, 2011
My interpretation of O’Brechbill’s statement was that nothing had been tested - there is a lot of stuff about being ‘blackballed’ by the perfumery community etc - I don’t set much store by his formula’s as a result, that said I believe he is writing from experience and in this case I think his suggestion could be quite credible.

Nonadienal (trans-2-cis-6-nonadienal to be specific) is a material I use often. 0.01% of the product is probably the highest level I’ve ever used in anything commercial and that was in a fragrance with a distinct cucumber note (Viva Verde if you’re interested). Notice I said of the product, not the concentrate. That level in the concentrate would not be overwhelmingly cucumber unless everything else in the formula was very mild-mannered. It’s a very powerful material but not quite in the same league with most pyrazines for example.
 

PerfumerSupplyHouse

Ingredients Supplier
Basenotes Plus
Dec 20, 2013
Happy to get some nonadienal from Bedoukian for anyone who wants to try it. I can also consider offering in a dilution (maybe 0.1% in DPG?)
Kind Regards,
Christine
 

Chris Bartlett

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Jul 17, 2011
Happy to get some nonadienal from Bedoukian for anyone who wants to try it. I can also consider offering in a dilution (maybe 0.1% in DPG?)
Kind Regards,
Christine

I think this is a splendid idea Christine, so far as I know it isn’t available your side of the Atlantic except to those with an SAFC account.

My recommendation for a practical dilution to sell is 1% rather than 0.1% (I keep both dilutions on hand for my work and you can easily make the latter from the former but not the other way round): that’s what I’m selling and I also have the equivalent alcohol on hand, trans-2-cis-6-nonadienol, which is fractionally more floral than the aldehyde: you might want to look a that too, though both are expensive products to buy in any quantity.

Used in traces you can give a subtle brightening effect to almost any composition with these materials and one or the other is essential for a successful recreation of natural violet-flower and certain kinds of carnation soliflore as well.
 

Chris Bartlett

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Jul 17, 2011
Perfumer's Apprentice are offering "Cucumber Aldehyde Natural". Different product? When you click the link for the MSDS it gives the CAS No.: 18829-56-6 as opposed to 557-48-2. Descriptions seem similar though.

Completely different product, yes, it is also present in the odour of natural cucumber and is widely used in flavour work. The PA description is however for the nonadienal we’ve been discussing up to now, which is odd.
 

Bill Roberts

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2013
Yes, different product, trans-2-nonenal for the PA product vs. trans-2,cis-6-nonadienal. Only one double bond instead of two, and different shape to the molecule.

Checking TGSC, both occur in cucumber. The dienal occurs in violet, but the enal does not.

On reported organoleptics, "Green, cucumber, aldehydic, fatty with a citrus nuance" vs. "Green, cucumber, melon, fatty and vegetative."

(EDIT: Replied before Chris's post appeared on my computer, guess I didn't refresh the page, hence some needless duplication.)
 

pkiler

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 5, 2007
hi, resuscitating, would a substitute for nonadienal, methyl heptine carbonate (Folione) be good?

They definitely are not the same, or same odor profile.
Nonadienal is more like cucumber.
MHC is more violet leaf, and is extremely restricted for use. Same with MOC. But I use a MOC replacer.

But why do you wish to try and sub 2,6-nonadienal?
 

celo

Active member
Oct 28, 2020
Eles definitivamente não são o mesmo ou o mesmo perfil de odor.
Nonadienal é mais parecido com pepino.
MHC é uma folha mais violeta e seu uso é extremamente restrito. Mesmo com o MOC. Mas eu uso um substituto MOC.

Mas por que você deseja tentar e sub 2,6-nonadienal?

hi Paul, thanks, i have Folione, and i wanted to use Nonadienal for the Mimosa Accorrd
 

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