Trying to make a grapefruit note

[IthinkIcancancan]

I will try to be as concise and clear as possible, sorry for the length of this post.



I am going to create a grapefruit note for a grapefruit-centered perfume.

However, there are SO MANY chemical constituents that can go into a grapefruit note, it is difficult to know how many ingredients will be necessary and if I am using far too little. For example after looking at the "grapefruit fragrance" page on the TGSC site, I am met with a neverending list of aromachemicals and essential oils that can be used to form a grapefruit note. Jesus! Saying it is overwhelming is an understatement. I read through an article on grapefruit from Fragrantica and the list of constituents for grapefruit was also quite huge.

I will also say since this perfume would revolve around grapefruit, I want to prolong its presence for as long as I can. As many hours as possible. This is important to me.


After doing research in these threads and on the supply companies, I have come up with these ingredients to play with:

possible grapefruit note ingredients:
- methyl pamplemousse
- pamplefleur
- Decatone
- rhubafuran
- Dimethyl Octenone
- rhubofix
- oxane 50% inTEC
- Nootkatone crystals 98+%(synthetic)
- Paradisamide
-Khusinil (IFF)
- Vetikol Acetate
- Grapefruit Base 015794-R (Firmenich)
- Timur Pepper oil

Not necesaarily grapefruity but complimentary perhaps:
- lime leaves (IFF)

I also wish to make this grapefruit perfume have a backdrop of greenery. Fresh, bitter, you get the idea. Here are some of the ingredients I got that I think could be good:
- Ysamber K
- Vetiverol ex Vetiver Haiti (Ventos)
- Tripal (A schiff base I believe? Hoping it imparts a positive effect on the performance of the fragrance)
- Tomato natural
- vetiveryl acetate




What do you think? Am I on a good start, or totally missing key elements?

I know there are quite a few ingredients that have crossover with rhubarb, but I like rhubarb and don't mind my grapefruit having rhubarb qualities too. I also think rhubarb helps bridge the gap between the grapefruit and the green ingredients I plan on using.

I left out grapefruit essential oil because I read that it doesn't really make for a good grapefruit effect, oddly.

In the end, I aim to make a zesty, fresh and crisp, bitter yet slightly juicy grapefruit. Nothing with much sweetness.


Would love your thoughts.

 

[parker25mv]

It's a very long thread and disorganised but you might see this thread: methyl pamplemousse (grapefruit note) review

There are many different grapefruit aromochemicals, and they all smell reminiscent of "grapefruit", but also at the same time they all smell very different from each other. You can read other people's descriptions of how they smell, but unfortunately I think you may have to smell them for yourself to determine which type of smell exactly is the one you prefer.

Again, I emphasise that they take the concept of "grapefruit" in very different directions, probably more than you can imagine.

However, there are SO MANY chemical constituents that can go into a grapefruit note, it is difficult to know how many ingredients will be necessary and if I am using far too little.

Probably only one or two, or maybe at most, three, will be necessary.
Some of the grapefruit ACs can be much stronger and more potent smelling than others.

I think what all of the grapefruit ACs have in common - different as they all are from each other - is they all have a little bit of mouth-puckering, sort of "rhubarb" effect, though of course somehow leaning more "grapefruit" than rhubarb, and at the same time having "citrus" aspects (though sometimes in different ways).

There are "red"-smelling grapefruit ACs, "orange" ones, and "green" ones. Some are more "natural"-smelling, others more "dirty".
Some are described as smelling "grapefruit", but really smell more something else than they do specifically grapefruit.

In the end, I aim to make a zesty, fresh and crisp, bitter yet slightly juicy grapefruit.

If you're looking for fresh and clean, one I would not recommend is pamplefleur.

I left out grapefruit essential oil because I read that it doesn't really make for a good grapefruit effect, oddly.

If you do use natural grapefruit oil, see if you can find white grapefruit. It can be harder to find.
But if you do use the natural oil, I'd recommend using it together in combination with one of the grapefruit ACs.

 

[pkiler]

I'd say these:
Methyl pamplemousse
Yellow grapefruit eo
Dimethyl octenone
Khusinil
Haiti vetiver

If you add any sulfuric types, dosage will be minimal.

 

[Yuri-G]

I find paradisamide very useful for taking grapefruit into the base of a fragrance. And it's versatile enough to be tweaked into a number of fruity directions - rhubarb, mango, guava. It even adds tang to berries when dosed low enough.

 

[deroudist]

I would also consider Magnolan in small traces. I do know that Jacques Cavallier used a mixture of Methyl pamplemousse, Magnolan, Vetiver Haiti, Pink Grapefruit EO and Green Mandarine EO for his Grapefruit accord in L'Immensité for Louis Vuitton.

 

[IthinkIcancancan]

It's a very long thread and disorganised but you might see this thread: methyl pamplemousse (grapefruit note) review

There are many different grapefruit aromochemicals, and they all smell reminiscent of "grapefruit", but also at the same time they all smell very different from each other. You can read other people's descriptions of how they smell, but unfortunately I think you may have to smell them for yourself to determine which type of smell exactly is the one you prefer.

Again, I emphasise that they take the concept of "grapefruit" in very different directions, probably more than you can imagine.



Probably only one or two, or maybe at most, three, will be necessary.
Some of the grapefruit ACs can be much stronger and more potent smelling than others.

I think what all of the grapefruit ACs have in common - different as they all are from each other - is they all have a little bit of mouth-puckering, sort of "rhubarb" effect, though of course somehow leaning more "grapefruit" than rhubarb, and at the same time having "citrus" aspects (though sometimes in different ways).

There are "red"-smelling grapefruit ACs, "orange" ones, and "green" ones. Some are more "natural"-smelling, others more "dirty".
Some are described as smelling "grapefruit", but really smell more something else than they do specifically grapefruit.


If you're looking for fresh and clean, one I would not recommend is pamplefleur.


If you do use natural grapefruit oil, see if you can find white grapefruit. It can be harder to find.
But if you do use the natural oil, I'd recommend using it together in combination with one of the grapefruit ACs.

thank you for this thorough comment. You gave me a lot to think about

 

[IthinkIcancancan]

I'd say these:
Methyl pamplemousse
Yellow grapefruit eo
Dimethyl octenone
Khusinil
Haiti vetiver

If you add any sulfuric types, dosage will be minimal.

thank you so much

 

[IthinkIcancancan]

I find paradisamide very useful for taking grapefruit into the base of a fragrance. And it's versatile enough to be tweaked into a number of fruity directions - rhubarb, mango, guava. It even adds tang to berries when dosed low enough.

I recieved my paradisamide the other day. WOW! It is beautiful. I can definitely see what you mean, about how it can be taken in several fruity directions. Its perhaps my favorite grapefruit AO so far.

 

[IthinkIcancancan]

I would also consider Magnolan in small traces. I do know that Jacques Cavallier used a mixture of Methyl pamplemousse, Magnolan, Vetiver Haiti, Pink Grapefruit EO and Green Mandarine EO for his Grapefruit accord in L'Immensité for Louis Vuitton.

ahh interesting! I must look into magnolan. Thank you

 

[PEACEVALLEY]

I will try to be as concise and clear as possible, sorry for the length of this post.



I am going to create a grapefruit note for a grapefruit-centered perfume.

However, there are SO MANY chemical constituents that can go into a grapefruit note, it is difficult to know how many ingredients will be necessary and if I am using far too little. For example after looking at the "grapefruit fragrance" page on the TGSC site, I am met with a neverending list of aromachemicals and essential oils that can be used to form a grapefruit note. Jesus! Saying it is overwhelming is an understatement. I read through an article on grapefruit from Fragrantica and the list of constituents for grapefruit was also quite huge.

I will also say since this perfume would revolve around grapefruit, I want to prolong its presence for as long as I can. As many hours as possible. This is important to me.


After doing research in these threads and on the supply companies, I have come up with these ingredients to play with:

possible grapefruit note ingredients:
- methyl pamplemousse
- pamplefleur
- Decatone
- rhubafuran
- Dimethyl Octenone
- rhubofix
- oxane 50% inTEC
- Nootkatone crystals 98+%(synthetic)
- Paradisamide
-Khusinil (IFF)
- Vetikol Acetate
- Grapefruit Base 015794-R (Firmenich)
- Timur Pepper oil

Not necesaarily grapefruity but complimentary perhaps:
- lime leaves (IFF)

I also wish to make this grapefruit perfume have a backdrop of greenery. Fresh, bitter, you get the idea. Here are some of the ingredients I got that I think could be good:
- Ysamber K
- Vetiverol ex Vetiver Haiti (Ventos)
- Tripal (A schiff base I believe? Hoping it imparts a positive effect on the performance of the fragrance)
- Tomato natural
- vetiveryl acetate

you can tray whith.

Thiomenthone.
Cat Ketone
floropal
Methyl Pamplemousse
Pamplefleur
Thiocineol
3 Mercapto hexil acetate
noot ketone
labienoxime
All of the them are the heart of grapefruit

What do you think? Am I on a good start, or totally missing key elements?

I know there are quite a few ingredients that have crossover with rhubarb, but I like rhubarb and don't mind my grapefruit having rhubarb qualities too. I also think rhubarb helps bridge the gap between the grapefruit and the green ingredients I plan on using.

I left out grapefruit essential oil because I read that it doesn't really make for a good grapefruit effect, oddly.

In the end, I aim to make a zesty, fresh and crisp, bitter yet slightly juicy grapefruit. Nothing with much sweetness.


Would love your thoughts.

 

[Citroasis]

'grapefruit mercaptain' in extreme traces for me works wonders alongside Methyl Pamplemouse and other good grapefruit bases such as Pamzest, Grapefruit Base-Firmenich, Pamplefleur

 

[PEACEVALLEY]

IT'S AS YOU SAY. IF ONE IS GOING TO WORK WITH ALDEHYDE TO RAISE THE FRESHNESS, IT IS ALSO GOOD TO USE GERALDEHYDE. WORKS VERY WELL WITH ALDEHYDES PROVIDING AN EXTREMELY NATURAL GREENNESS

 

[PEACEVALLEY]

Thiomenthone.
Cat Ketone
floropal
Methyl Pamplemousse
Pamplefleur
Thiocineol
3 Mercapto hexil acetate
noot ketone
labienoxime
All of the them are the heart of grapefruit

 

[pkiler]

My accidental grapefruit post:

https://basenotes.com/threads/ooops-i-made-a-nice-grapefruit-by-mistake.479177/

 

[parker25mv]

A little myrcene can also help contribute some of the scratchy texture of grapefruit, but is not really very grapefruit-like by itself.
(Just so this does not give people the wrong idea, all by itself it just smells kind of grey and boring, sort of sour, somewhat reminiscent of turpentine or even furniture varnish, but it can really contribute and change the overall feel of a fragrance, helping to add some of the necessary woody texture to grapefruit if you do not want it to be too fruity and edible)

In some situations one alternative could be basil, which also contains a relatively high level of myrcene.

 

[PEACEVALLEY]

It is a pink grapefruit formula. I hope you find it useful.

PRODUCT	%
ALDEHYDE C-9	0.21
STYRALIL ACETATE	21.39
RETPENYL ACETATE	2.14
HEDIONE	3.6
FLOROPAL	1.O7
ORANGEFLOWER ETHER	1.07
METHYL LAITONE 10%	2.14
NOOT KETONE	0.1
CAT KETONE 1% AT 1%	0.54
PAMPLEFLEUR	0.64
THIOMENTONE 1%	0.64
METHYL PAMPLEMOUSSE	1.07
OXANE 10%	0.21
NARANJA TERPENO	61.44
3 MERCAPTO HEXYL ACETATE 1%	0.86
THIOCINEOL 1%	1.07
LABIENOXIME 1%	0.53
GERALDEHYDE 105	0.32
	100%

 

[PEACEVALLEY]

GERALDEHYDE 10% 0.32%
TERPENIL ACETATE 2.14%

 

[PEACEVALLEY]

YOU CAN ALSO ADD
PARADISAMIDE
VETIVERYL ACETATE
DIMETHYL OCTENONE,
FLORALATE
VIGOFLOR
MUSKS, ETC. ETC.

 

[David Ruskin]

If you can find it, and that won't be easy, try Bigarade Oxide. This is a very stable, Grapefruit Basenote. Very expensive, and few people sell it (if anyone does) it was an old BBA speciality that, because of its price, never became popular.

 

[PEACEVALLEY]

DAVID, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR ADVICE, I WILL TRY TO GET IT
MANUEL