- Apr 1, 2019
- 5,594
- 3,780
Tom Ford, Remaking The Same Fragrance, & Tom Ford for Men EDT v Gucci Envy (and Fougere d'Argent!)
I posted this over on fragrantica but maybe it would be better suited here.
It's an observation I made about a year ago and I wonder if anyone else feels the same way.
I wore TFFM for a few years and it became an interesting stylistic or 'conceptual' comparison when I tried Gucci Envy a few times - but it's not an obvious comparison in terms of scent.
TFFM is not a replacement for Envy. It is not a 'smells a like'. It does not smell like Envy 'in the first half hour'. Do not buy TFFM and expect it to be any way similar to Envy, or an adequate replacement, or buy it and think 'well, if that's Envy, what's the fuss?'.
Envy and TFFM share a STYLISTIC TEMPLATE - an idea. In the same way that Creed Anvetus and Terre d'Hermes share a similar idea of citrus on top of earthy-spicy dirt. Or another comparison which I've noticed recently which some may not immediately perceive, of taking the same idea and producing different scents: Le Male Jean Paul Gaultier, Eros Versace, and Invasion Barbare MDCI Parfums.
Gucci Envy and TFFM don't smell all that similar. They smell marginally more similar than TdH and Aventus do to each other, but less similar than Eros does to Le Male and IB (IMO).
What is shared between Envy and TFFM is the IDEA of a rather pleasant yet old school (probably 70s through to the early 90s) cologne type fragrance that is updated to the contemporary demands and style of fragrances at time of release: something that is almost like an upmarket aftershave. Given that there are 10 years between the respective releases, that contemporary style is quite different between each! I suppose you could even say Tom Ford pre-dated the 'nugere' trend we're in in the moment, albeit I think that is doing something else, something less sexy and artistic and more...affected and tryhard (to reclaim a lost masculinity, but that's another matter). Both scents evoke something pre-powerhouse, something that isn't overly barbershop and harsh or dank and leathery: neither fougere nor chypre but using elements of both. A 'mid' cologne - the amber coloured kind that have been spoken about before. Safari by Ralph Lauren might be a good comparison, there are no doubt plenty more. Yardley Gold and Mandate Eden Classic are others that would be a 'true old school' comparison I'd make but perhaps others who have more old school experience would be able to think of a more accurate, perhaps less pungent, examples.
In essence, the shared notes both Envy and TFFM are built around are ginger and tobacco - but that's about it. The ginger is the distinctive element. The tobacco in both is soft, to the point where most people aren't even going to pick it out, but rather sits as part of a 'deep' masculine accord in the base without really being discernible - and for anyone wondering, yes, https://fimgs.net/mdimg/perfume/m.1172.jpg Tom Ford for Men Tom Ford is closer in overall smell to The One for Men Dolce&Gabbana than it is Envy for Men Gucci, and VASTLY more alike Vera Wang for Men than Envy. That's because the tobacco isn't prominent, it's not distinctive, but it is the heart around which a rather 'clean' yet masculine nouveau-cologne is built - while the ginger is present in both, it's not dominant enough nor isolated enough to make the differences irrelevant; if you want to know what TFFM smells like, buy Vera Wang. They're very close.
I'd say Envy is more akin to a true fougere than TFFM and the colour reflects that: it goes green and if not quite minty then it's significantly more herbal in the top. TFFM has florals, not herbs, and feels warmer and lighter - and significantly more citric. That big, long note list for TFFM? Good luck smelling 2/3rds of it, they're just not there in any distinct manner, more like they play their part in one of the main accords. The colours of the fragrances actually mark the differences well: brighter and warmer with more amber sweetness for TFFM, and greener, fresher, and more herbal for Envy. However Envy also has a smoky, pseudo 'incense' drydown with a synthetic sandalwood in the base. It smells like an impressive take on an aftershave in that sense: like the herbs giving way to the deeper, masculine base. TFFM falls apart in the base in all honesty, it becomes incredibly synthetic and its poor longevity is probably a good thing because it ultimately becomes cloying. It has a 'clearer' base. almost like a mix of transparent woody floral notes and then a synthetic indistinct sweetness: it's not smoky at all, it's all cedar and florals and most importantly synthetic musks and at this stage isn't like an aftershave and is certainly not like Envy. You might even find it powdery at times. As I say, TFFM is cloying on me and if you don't like ISO E Super or generic synthetic white musk, avoid it, because the base is packed with the stuff.
It's the IDEA that bonds the two fragrances together. Not the actual smell in any disctinct or meaningful way. In my review I explained this as Tom Ford being someone obsessed with the cyclical nature of the past, a man absorbed in recreating the 70s through particular and an idealised forms of masculinity from the era. In that sense, I feel he has made MANY fragrances over and over again (I'm sure I've referenced those in another of my reviews but even in the modern iteration of his house where, no doubt, he has less and less control this is still happening). I would also say he's had another crack at making 'this' type of scent in the last few years in the form of Fougere d'Argent.
I say this having worn TFFM for years and being bitterly disappointed with both its performance and its reformulation around 2014ish (it used to be much less cloying, I'm sure of it).
If anyone suggests that Envy can be replaced by TFFM - don't listen to them, don't waste your money. They are misunderstanding (and trying to imitate) my point in comparing these fragrances. These are not like for like in any way; there is a shared 'sense', which is different to a shared 'smell'.
TFFM is much more feminine than Envy as well - so bear that in mind if you do try it. Envy smells like the 90s to me, I knew someone who wore it. It smells like a really nice 'everyman' fragrance in the best possible way. TFFM is very much in keeping with the 00s trend of ambery colognes, rather than the more oriental ambers we think of now, and while I'd call it one of the most important releases from the house and almost a reference point for retro-modern fragrances, it's by no means a 'replacement' for Envy unless you're willing to pivot in to something much more modern, feminine, and 'different' in the truest sense: notes. Envy also has a 'true' dated quality in the composition which is hard to sum up but it basically smells like the 90s: Egoiste has it, plenty of other fragrances from the era have it. If you know what I mean, you know.
Also, if you really want a curveball - Fougère d’Argent Tom Ford is AT LEAST as similar toEnvy for Men Gucci as Tom Ford for Men Tom Ford, if not moreso. It's much more along the fougere lines of the 'new aftershave' type and fits in to the modern nouveau fougere trend (like Beau de Jour). And while the dry sweetness of the tonka won't be for everyone, and is a different sweetness to the warmer kind of Envy and TFFM, it's the ginger and 'pseudo smoky' base note (no tobacco, allegedly, but the labdanum and fake woods have a similar effect to that of Envy's base) that is once again at the core. As I said, Tom Ford keeps making this fragrance over and over - and it's THAT which binds TFFM and Envy together. It's like he has made the same fragrance in 3 different shades or tones. They're all good in their own right, all different from one another to by no means be classed as clones or even 'rip offs' - but the IDEA or CONCEPT or TEMPLATE; that's what binds these scents together and I'm certain it has Tom Ford at the heart of that creative decision.
Anyway, interested to hear any thoughts on this, and also I suppose Tom Ford's general tendency to cannibalise some element of his own previous work in order to regurgitate it in to something newer and more appropriate for the era of its re-release.
I posted this over on fragrantica but maybe it would be better suited here.
It's an observation I made about a year ago and I wonder if anyone else feels the same way.
I wore TFFM for a few years and it became an interesting stylistic or 'conceptual' comparison when I tried Gucci Envy a few times - but it's not an obvious comparison in terms of scent.
TFFM is not a replacement for Envy. It is not a 'smells a like'. It does not smell like Envy 'in the first half hour'. Do not buy TFFM and expect it to be any way similar to Envy, or an adequate replacement, or buy it and think 'well, if that's Envy, what's the fuss?'.
Envy and TFFM share a STYLISTIC TEMPLATE - an idea. In the same way that Creed Anvetus and Terre d'Hermes share a similar idea of citrus on top of earthy-spicy dirt. Or another comparison which I've noticed recently which some may not immediately perceive, of taking the same idea and producing different scents: Le Male Jean Paul Gaultier, Eros Versace, and Invasion Barbare MDCI Parfums.
Gucci Envy and TFFM don't smell all that similar. They smell marginally more similar than TdH and Aventus do to each other, but less similar than Eros does to Le Male and IB (IMO).
What is shared between Envy and TFFM is the IDEA of a rather pleasant yet old school (probably 70s through to the early 90s) cologne type fragrance that is updated to the contemporary demands and style of fragrances at time of release: something that is almost like an upmarket aftershave. Given that there are 10 years between the respective releases, that contemporary style is quite different between each! I suppose you could even say Tom Ford pre-dated the 'nugere' trend we're in in the moment, albeit I think that is doing something else, something less sexy and artistic and more...affected and tryhard (to reclaim a lost masculinity, but that's another matter). Both scents evoke something pre-powerhouse, something that isn't overly barbershop and harsh or dank and leathery: neither fougere nor chypre but using elements of both. A 'mid' cologne - the amber coloured kind that have been spoken about before. Safari by Ralph Lauren might be a good comparison, there are no doubt plenty more. Yardley Gold and Mandate Eden Classic are others that would be a 'true old school' comparison I'd make but perhaps others who have more old school experience would be able to think of a more accurate, perhaps less pungent, examples.
In essence, the shared notes both Envy and TFFM are built around are ginger and tobacco - but that's about it. The ginger is the distinctive element. The tobacco in both is soft, to the point where most people aren't even going to pick it out, but rather sits as part of a 'deep' masculine accord in the base without really being discernible - and for anyone wondering, yes, https://fimgs.net/mdimg/perfume/m.1172.jpg Tom Ford for Men Tom Ford is closer in overall smell to The One for Men Dolce&Gabbana than it is Envy for Men Gucci, and VASTLY more alike Vera Wang for Men than Envy. That's because the tobacco isn't prominent, it's not distinctive, but it is the heart around which a rather 'clean' yet masculine nouveau-cologne is built - while the ginger is present in both, it's not dominant enough nor isolated enough to make the differences irrelevant; if you want to know what TFFM smells like, buy Vera Wang. They're very close.
I'd say Envy is more akin to a true fougere than TFFM and the colour reflects that: it goes green and if not quite minty then it's significantly more herbal in the top. TFFM has florals, not herbs, and feels warmer and lighter - and significantly more citric. That big, long note list for TFFM? Good luck smelling 2/3rds of it, they're just not there in any distinct manner, more like they play their part in one of the main accords. The colours of the fragrances actually mark the differences well: brighter and warmer with more amber sweetness for TFFM, and greener, fresher, and more herbal for Envy. However Envy also has a smoky, pseudo 'incense' drydown with a synthetic sandalwood in the base. It smells like an impressive take on an aftershave in that sense: like the herbs giving way to the deeper, masculine base. TFFM falls apart in the base in all honesty, it becomes incredibly synthetic and its poor longevity is probably a good thing because it ultimately becomes cloying. It has a 'clearer' base. almost like a mix of transparent woody floral notes and then a synthetic indistinct sweetness: it's not smoky at all, it's all cedar and florals and most importantly synthetic musks and at this stage isn't like an aftershave and is certainly not like Envy. You might even find it powdery at times. As I say, TFFM is cloying on me and if you don't like ISO E Super or generic synthetic white musk, avoid it, because the base is packed with the stuff.
It's the IDEA that bonds the two fragrances together. Not the actual smell in any disctinct or meaningful way. In my review I explained this as Tom Ford being someone obsessed with the cyclical nature of the past, a man absorbed in recreating the 70s through particular and an idealised forms of masculinity from the era. In that sense, I feel he has made MANY fragrances over and over again (I'm sure I've referenced those in another of my reviews but even in the modern iteration of his house where, no doubt, he has less and less control this is still happening). I would also say he's had another crack at making 'this' type of scent in the last few years in the form of Fougere d'Argent.
I say this having worn TFFM for years and being bitterly disappointed with both its performance and its reformulation around 2014ish (it used to be much less cloying, I'm sure of it).
If anyone suggests that Envy can be replaced by TFFM - don't listen to them, don't waste your money. They are misunderstanding (and trying to imitate) my point in comparing these fragrances. These are not like for like in any way; there is a shared 'sense', which is different to a shared 'smell'.
TFFM is much more feminine than Envy as well - so bear that in mind if you do try it. Envy smells like the 90s to me, I knew someone who wore it. It smells like a really nice 'everyman' fragrance in the best possible way. TFFM is very much in keeping with the 00s trend of ambery colognes, rather than the more oriental ambers we think of now, and while I'd call it one of the most important releases from the house and almost a reference point for retro-modern fragrances, it's by no means a 'replacement' for Envy unless you're willing to pivot in to something much more modern, feminine, and 'different' in the truest sense: notes. Envy also has a 'true' dated quality in the composition which is hard to sum up but it basically smells like the 90s: Egoiste has it, plenty of other fragrances from the era have it. If you know what I mean, you know.
Also, if you really want a curveball - Fougère d’Argent Tom Ford is AT LEAST as similar toEnvy for Men Gucci as Tom Ford for Men Tom Ford, if not moreso. It's much more along the fougere lines of the 'new aftershave' type and fits in to the modern nouveau fougere trend (like Beau de Jour). And while the dry sweetness of the tonka won't be for everyone, and is a different sweetness to the warmer kind of Envy and TFFM, it's the ginger and 'pseudo smoky' base note (no tobacco, allegedly, but the labdanum and fake woods have a similar effect to that of Envy's base) that is once again at the core. As I said, Tom Ford keeps making this fragrance over and over - and it's THAT which binds TFFM and Envy together. It's like he has made the same fragrance in 3 different shades or tones. They're all good in their own right, all different from one another to by no means be classed as clones or even 'rip offs' - but the IDEA or CONCEPT or TEMPLATE; that's what binds these scents together and I'm certain it has Tom Ford at the heart of that creative decision.
Anyway, interested to hear any thoughts on this, and also I suppose Tom Ford's general tendency to cannibalise some element of his own previous work in order to regurgitate it in to something newer and more appropriate for the era of its re-release.
