Sweet Orange blossom - Love Don't be Shy

[Yuri-G]

Hi
I was looking for a fragrance to recreate and I wanted something that included elements that I struggle with, as I thought that would be the most useful learning experience. I opted for modern, feminine-leaning, sweet and with an orange blossom note. I often have trouble with this note for some reason, en though I enjoy it.

I settled on a Killian fragrance called Love don't be Shy (apparently Rihanna's signature scent). It's based on the idea of orange blossom-scented marshmallows, which sounds quite cool. I smelled it this weekend and it was quite nice - maybe not photo-realistic orange blossom, more of a grape soda scent. I only got it on a smelling strip. Maybe I should have tried it on skin.

Looking at the allergens, it's interesting to see what is missing. No methyl ionone, despite having an iris note, no isoeugenol or benzyl salicylate, despite being white floral, no coumarin, which seems fairly unusual. I doubt that there is methyl anthranilate, given that it likely contains a boat load of vanilla.

Using, oranger crystals, aurantiol and some of the usual suspects for orange blossom, along with a load of vanillin, ethyl maltol and a touch of homofuraneol, I have made something pretty nice, supplemented with bergamot, hedione, ISO e super and exaltolide and habanolide as the musks. Then I added labdanum and pink pepper, which are two of the listed notes, and it has gone slightly wayward, losing its singularity.

Anyone familiar with this fragrance and its makeup?

 

[Mando]

Not familiar with it but Methyl Anthranilate would help. I love that grape bubblegum note like in Dior Poison.

 

[Yuri-G]

Not familiar with it but Methyl Anthranilate would help. I love that grape bubblegum note like in Dior Poison.

Thanks. I specifically avoided using it in case it reacted with the vanillin and hydroxycitronellal.

 

[pkiler]

MA will react with Vanillin and HDXCT.

 

[Casper_grassy]

It’ll react over time assuming the moles/ratios are much different. I wouldn’t worry that much about it and if the MA is much lower (which is fine cause you don’t need a lot to make an impact) the amount of water created will probably be unnoticeable in the blend as well.

My MA/Van schiff never got super solidified either so in a blend you shouldn’t worry too much.

 

[parker25mv]

Looking at the allergens, it's interesting to see what is missing. No methyl ionone, despite having an iris note, no isoeugenol or benzyl salicylate, despite being white floral, no coumarin, which seems fairly unusual. I doubt that there is methyl anthranilate, given that it likely contains a boat load of vanilla.

You might not be familiar enough with all the different ACs and substitutes that exist for these notes.
For example, Irotyl can give an "iris note" (though very different from methyl ionone), methyl diantilis can contribute both a bit of an isoeugenol-like effect and is very vanillic, can easily be buried beneath the smell of vanillin so you don't notice it is there, there are various other "white floral" ACs that are not salicylates (in any case salicylates might not be listed if they are not allergens), various coumarin alternatives exist, and Aurantiol is often used in orange blossom accords; it might be listed under allergens as "citronellal". Oranger crystals are another alternative AC sometimes used in place of methyl anthranilate to help give a similar sort of effect in a fragrance. Though I cannot comment at all on which specific ACs that Killian fragrance uses.

My advice in this situation is do not try to copy what ACs you think actually exist in this fragrance. Rather use your nose to try to copy or approximate the smell.

 

[Yuri-G]

You might not be familiar enough with all the different ACs and substitutes that exist for these notes.
For example, Irotyl can give an "iris note" (though very different from methyl ionone), methyl diantilis can contribute both a bit of an isoeugenol-like effect and is very vanillic, can easily be buried beneath the smell of vanillin so you don't notice it is there, there are various other "white floral" ACs that are not salicylates (in any case salicylates might not be listed if they are not allergens), various coumarin alternatives exist, and Aurantiol is often used in orange blossom accords; it might be listed under allergens as "citronellal". Oranger crystals are another alternative AC sometimes used in place of methyl anthranilate to help give a similar sort of effect in a fragrance. Though I cannot comment at all on which specific ACs that Killian fragrance uses.

My advice in this situation is do not try to copy what ACs you think actually exist in this fragrance. Rather use your nose to try to copy or approximate the smell.

Yes I'm using aurantiol and oranger crystals, along with nerolidol, eugenol, ethyl linalool, PEA, geraniol and rhodinol. Is that true that the allergenic part of a Schiff's base would be listed? I think you are thinking of hydroxycitronellal rather than citronellal for aurantiol, but both are listed allergens on the label, so you could be correct.

The "missing" materials was more a point of interest. I'm aware of other materials that can create these notes. I was just noting the slightly non-standard approach.

I need to smell it again, and on skin too to properly analyse the fragrance. I thought I might be picking up ambrettolide. I hoped someone might know, or have any Intel such as the ethyl maltol dose. I doubled it and this did improve the fragrance.

 

[mnitabach]

Yes I'm using aurantiol and oranger crystals, along with nerolidol, eugenol, ethyl linalool, PEA, geraniol and rhodinol. Is that true that the allergenic part of a Schiff's base would be listed? I think you are thinking of hydroxycitronellal rather than citronellal for aurantiol, but both are listed allergens on the label, so you could be correct.

The "missing" materials was more a point of interest. I'm aware of other materials that can create these notes. I was just noting the slightly non-standard approach.

I need to smell it again, and on skin too to properly analyse the fragrance. I thought I might be picking up ambrettolide. I hoped someone might know, or have any Intel such as the ethyl maltol dose. I doubled it and this did improve the fragrance.

Nerolione & coumarone are also excellent powerful tenacious neroli materials.

 

[Logocracy]

In a recent gourmand orange flower accord I made, I used a lot of the ingredients you are using (oranger crystals, PEA, Nerolione, linalool) as well as a combination of Mayol, Florol, Triplal and Jasmine Speciality for the white flower feel; and Beta Damascone with Auralva (IFF) for the sweetness.

Separately in that accord I also added traces of ethyl maltol and indole as I was going for something similar to Byredo's uber sugary orange flower frag, 'Sundaze'.

 

[Casper_grassy]

Don’t forget adding something like Indole or PCPA.

Bisabolene can make it a bit funko or exotic-ish.

 

[Citroasis]

I had this saved in my archive. It was from Killians website way back in the day when they used to have these cute little descriptions about thier fragrances. Im sure its not the REAL formula and just their way of marketing the fragrance in a fun way to consumers, but it does provide what kind of "notes" and feel they are trying to give off to the consumer. It may help...it may not...

 

[Yuri-G]

I had this saved in my archive. It was from Killians website way back in the day when they used to have these cute little descriptions about thier fragrances. Im sure its not the REAL formula and just their way of marketing the fragrance in a fun way to consumers, but it does provide what kind of "notes" and feel they are trying to give off to the consumer. It may help...it may not...

View attachment 448381

This is cool. I think I saw this a long time ago, way before I considered this fragrance. It's an interesting but strange idea to present it as an old style fragrance.

It might be fun to try making it, albeit with some subs, probably using bases. I don't have a honeysuckle base however. Closest I have is linden blossom.

What is iris absolute? Orris butter? Resinoid?

 

[Citroasis]

This is cool. I think I saw this a long time ago, way before I considered this fragrance. It's an interesting but strange idea to present it as an old style fragrance.

It might be fun to try making it, albeit with some subs, probably using bases. I don't have a honeysuckle base however. Closest I have is linden blossom.

What is iris absolute? Orris butter? Resinoid?

Poucher has a honeysuckle base formula on TGSC. Might be worth trying to make it and see.

As far as the Iris Absolute....it's probably just marketing lingo to make it sound cooler that what they actually really used. I wouldn't take this sheet as verbatim, but rather something to look at for what the designer intended on showing the consumers as listed notes and approximate odor profiles.

 

[Yuri-G]

I would probably use Harry's orris base, which I prefer to orris givco.

Thanks, I'll check out the Poucher honeysuckle base.

 

[Mando]

Honeysuckle

Honeysuckle is one of those most beautiful spring floral scents that seems to float on the air and greet you before you even see it. Fraterworks® Honeysuckle 584569 is a thoroughly modern base built around a luscious core of natural oils and absolutes enhanced by scientifically accurate...

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Jamie’s base is pretty nice.

I’m also here to kill this thread 🤣

 

[Mando]

I finally smelled this scent yesterday. It is pretty nice. The orange blossom note is really muted over the sugariness. I think I try to fashion a scent like this one too. I seriously need a caramel / sugar note to do it.

A scent to consider doing is the now discontinued Luctor et Emergo by The People of the Labyrinths. It’s a very densely sweet heliotrope cherry vanilla scent. Cassie, Jasmine, Rose Gallica, undecavertol, Persicol, & hazelnut, incense and civet also make this one pretty complete. I’m really satisfied with the results.

 

[Mando]

I had this saved in my archive. It was from Killians website way back in the day when they used to have these cute little descriptions about thier fragrances. Im sure its not the REAL formula and just their way of marketing the fragrance in a fun way to consumers, but it does provide what kind of "notes" and feel they are trying to give off to the consumer. It may help...it may not...

View attachment 448381

I put together this “formula” this evening and so far it’s pretty nice so far. I utilized Maltol for the caramelized sugar, Orris Givco for the Iris Absolute, Rose Imperiale for Rose Essence, Rose d’Orient for Rose Concrete and Jasmine India for the Sambac variety.
Now time for it to macerate. I dislike being impatient.

 

[Citroasis]

I too......am an impatient man. Lol

 

[Yuri-G]

I finally smelled this scent yesterday. It is pretty nice. The orange blossom note is really muted over the sugariness.

Still not smelled the real thing on skin, but my experiment had a similar effect. So often my orange blossom experiments have gone soapy, but the ethyl maltol really muted and smoothed it out.

 

[Mando]

Still not smelled the real thing on skin, but my experiment had a similar effect. So often my orange blossom experiments have gone soapy, but the ethyl maltol really muted and smoothed it out.

Testing it out today to see how it is progressing and yes, the Maltol really tamed the orange blossom note so it’s not soapy. The Floranol and Fleur d’Oranger F.W. bases work really well together. I think I could amp up the jasmine note though. The rose bases seem just right. I didn’t use “white musk” for the base, I used F.W.’s Nearly Deer with musk ambrette which gives it that vintage nitro musk aura to it. I think I’ll redo this formula with Galaxolide 50% & Romandolide since those two are fruity. See which version I prefer most. But all in all, it’s pretty good.
I haven’t tested out the real deal on myself either. I wished I had when I put it on a blotter I took home. I’d consider buying bottle aftermarket cause even though it’s geared towards the ladies, I think anyone could pull it off.