Sample Pass: "Old ~vs~ New" Vertical Testings

[Varanis Ridari]

Seconded.



I'm blaming that 1999 version of Vent Vert.

<Joking/Not joking>

(You're probably right, actually.)

 

[Couronne de Violette]

So I just jumped into what appears to be a curated group of people who are invited; hope that didn’t violate basenotes etiquette…

 

[CookBot]

So I just jumped into what appears to be a curated group of people who are invited; hope that didn’t violate basenotes etiquette…

Not at all. Anyone with experience of scents being discussed in a pass is welcome to share their opinions.

 

[PStoller]

Anyone with experience of scents being discussed in a pass is welcome to share their opinions.

Or, if you have none, make up stuff, so long as it's entertaining.

 

[Tea_Lilly]

The more the merrier @Couronne de Violette - glad to have you in the discussion.

 

[grayspoole]

So I just jumped into what appears to be a curated group of people who are invited; hope that didn’t violate basenotes etiquette…

No violation, instead, exactly what we were hoping for! Anyone who would like to add comments or questions, please do not hesitate to jump in.

 

[Varanis Ridari]

I reviewed Jolie Madame by Pierre Balmain (1953), which didn't seem to have an analog in the pass. More thoughts here to follow.

 

[CookBot]

I reviewed Jolie Madame by Pierre Balmain (1953), which didn't seem to have an analog in the pass. More thoughts here to follow.

Its analog was supposed to be the Bottega Veneta EDP, as an example of a modernized violet leather.'

 

[CookBot]

This is the bottle that the sample of Jolie Madame in the pass came from. I believe it's from the 1970s, or maybe early '80s.

 

[Diddy]

Or, if you have none, make up stuff, so long as it's entertaining.

I’ve got some Boudreaux and Thibodaux jokes I could tell. They’re pretty funny in English but better when you hear them in Cajun English. 😃

 

[PStoller]

I’ve got some Boudreaux and Thibodaux jokes I could tell. They’re pretty funny in English but better when you hear them in Cajun English. 😃

Though perhaps not if you need a translator.

 

[Varanis Ridari]

Oh I'll check that one next!

Its analog was supposed to be the Bottega Veneta EDP, as an example of a modernized violet leather.'

 

[Scent_Insensibility]

Glad you liked that! I enjoyed seeing your bottles of Cabochard, and your insightful comments.

The synthetic, fractionated, cleaned-up versions of “patchouli” typically found in modern feminine pink “chypres” just mystify me. Why call it patchouli at all if only to explain, in the next marketing burble, that this isn‘t hippie or funky or head-shop or skanky patchouli. Heaven forfend!

I think natural patchouli smells amazing, and I think it is infinitely preferable and more interesting than modern replacements such as, for example, Firmenich’s Clearwood—

“Soft, clean version of Patchouli without the earthy, leathery and rubbery notes found in the natural oil” (description from the Perfumer Supply House).

Or, in other words, why bother? Clearwood is yet another creamy, woody amber. Firmenich classifies Clearwood as a “natural” ingredient, developed using “white biotechnology” (the name for actual category of biotechnology, it seems, with rather unfortunate connotations) so it can be described as such by those who like to greenwash (or whitewash) their perfumery descriptions.

Well, that explains a lot !

Someone asked me recently why, apart from well, no oakmoss, why I'd commented on a thread (elsewhere) that I didn't really place modern "chypres" ( the examples being BV and Nomade ) in the same catagory when telling someone else what chypres to try. The og OP liked these but then hadn't liked any old school Chypres. I said: it's misleading to call these chypres so I'm not surprised. The second commentator queried why and I struggled to explain ( apart from "have you smelled any Bernard Chant ? Now that's a Chypre 😂" )

They wanted answers that weren't "no or little oakmoss" as that would mean a modern ( EU commercial ) Chypre couldn't exist at all which they refused to accept. That if they had "tree miss" Instead, why weren't they still a chypre ?

In part, my answer was looking at intent and composition - they had to be a prominence of dark green, mossy accords often with "leather" or "patch" too. Just having some "oak/tree moss" wasn't enough. Same as having a single floral note didn't make something a "Floral" or having some aldehydes didn't make it an "Aldehyde" by genre. That it was almost incidental in some of these, they were equally floral-green-woody-powdry-musky etc.

I also went on to say: it's a bit like the fad for sticking woody notes in everything but calling it "oud" or modern "patchouli" frags, that don't really smell patch as I know it, just another generic woody note.

This explains it !

 

[grayspoole]

Well, that explains a lot !

Someone asked me recently why, apart from well, no oakmoss, why I'd commented on a thread (elsewhere) that I didn't really place modern "chypres" ( the examples being BV and Nomade ) in the same catagory when telling someone else what chypres to try. The og OP liked these but then hadn't liked any old school Chypres. I said: it's misleading to call these chypres so I'm not surprised. The second commentator queried why and I struggled to explain ( apart from "have you smelled any Bernard Chant ? Now that's a Chypre 😂" )

They wanted answers that weren't "no or little oakmoss" as that would mean a modern ( EU commercial ) Chypre couldn't exist at all which they refused to accept. That if they had "tree miss" Instead, why weren't they still a chypre ?

In part, my answer was looking at intent and composition - they had to be a prominence of dark green, mossy accords often with "leather" or "patch" too. Just having some "oak/tree moss" wasn't enough. Same as having a single floral note didn't make something a "Floral" or having some aldehydes didn't make it an "Aldehyde" by genre. That it was almost incidental in some of these, they were equally floral-green-woody-powdry-musky etc.

I also went on to say: it's a bit like the fad for sticking woody notes in everything but calling it "oud" or modern "patchouli" frags, that don't really smell patch as I know it, just another generic woody note.

This explains it !

I am not at all opposed to discussions of perfume genres and classifications, they can be illuminating and useful, but there is a tendency to assume that there is more consistency within a genre than there is, especially over time. Heck. even the original Coty Chypre and the 80’s reissue smell completely different.

Oh, yeah, and the aldehyde thing. There is a wide variety of aldehydes—powdery, fruity, creamy, waxy—so saying that a perfume is an aldehyde due to the presence of ”aldehydes” doesn’t take us very far. NB: Vanillin is an aldehyde.

 

[LiveJazz]

I reviewed Jolie Madame by Pierre Balmain (1953), which didn't seem to have an analog in the pass. More thoughts here to follow.

I was nodding along along with pretty much your whole review. Smooth, light, "modern" for its time. I liked your description of the type of violet note used...candied-ish violet.

 

[Scent_Insensibility]

I am not at all opposed to discussions of perfume genres and classifications, they can be illuminating and useful, but there is a tendency to assume that there is more consistency within a genre than there is, especially over time. Heck. even the original Coty Chypre and the 80’s reissue smell completely different.

Oh, yeah, and the aldehyde thing. There is a wide variety of aldehydes—powdery, fruity, creamy, waxy—so saying that a perfume is an aldehyde due to the presence of ”aldehydes” doesn’t take us very far. NB: Vanillin is an aldehyde.

Heck. even the original Coty Chypre and the 80’s reissue smell completely different.

Now THAT'S something I'd love to compare. Coty Chypre now & then . It's my white whale. I have one memory of picking a small bottle off my relative's dressing table late 70's and sniffing. Then completely ignoring it in the 80's ( yes, I'm an idiot ) .

And, like that, it was gone !

 

[Varanis Ridari]

I reviewed Bottega Veneta EDP.

To me, it does not compare to Jolie Madame, but is nice in its own way.

Not much violet to my nose, not until the end.

 

[CookBot]

I reviewed Bottega Veneta EDP.

To me, it does not compare to Jolie Madame, but is nice in its own way.

Interesting that you found similarities to Kokorico by Gaultier. I have a decant of that around somewhere, I'll have to track it down and compare, since I can't really dredge up any memories of it. I've always thought its closest contemporary analog was Cuir d'Amethyste by Armani, which was about 3X time price of the BV (no longer true, now that the discontinued BV is going unicorn).

 

[Varanis Ridari]

Interesting that you found similarities to Kokorico by Gaultier. I have a decant of that around somewhere, I'll have to track it down and compare, since I can't really dredge up any memories of it. I've always thought its closest contemporary analog was Cuir d'Amethyste by Armani, which was about 3X time price of the BV (no longer true, now that the discontinued BV is going unicorn).

Yeah, it's still sub-$200 as of this post, until the scalpers who hoard stock from discounters see it and go "oh yeah? @#$% you! Now it's $400" lol

 

[grayspoole]

Heck. even the original Coty Chypre and the 80’s reissue smell completely different.

Now THAT'S something I'd love to compare. Coty Chypre now & then . It's my white whale. I have one memory of picking a small bottle off my relative's dressing table late 70's and sniffing. Then completely ignoring it in the 80's ( yes, I'm an idiot ) .

And, like that, it was gone !

I have a well preserved bottle of the original EDT, and it’s a nice, soft, mossy chypre. No ”oakmoss“ bomb. I think vintage Faberge Aphrodisia smells fairly similar (and Faberge even copied the packaging). Aphrodisia is on the left, Coty Chypre on the right. I also think Millot’s Crepe de Chine is another sister to the original Coty Chypre, but I actually like Crepe de Chine even more. It might be worth trying Aphrodisia or Crepe de Chine, if you haven’t already done so.



The 1980’s Chypre, from the “Chateau Collection,” smells like…duh!…an 80’s chypre. It has a much stronger impact and pungency, with coriander, patchouli, and civettone, and it is this type of chypre base accord that many associate with oakmoss, even though oakmoss doesn’t have much of a presence in the 1980’s Coty Chypre. To me, it smells quite a bit like Paloma Picasso (but PP is a much better scent).

Here’s a 1986 ad. Amusing that the collection was promoted with a trip to France giveaway.