Sample Pass: "Old ~vs~ New" Vertical Testings

[Bavard]

I just love vintage Jolie Madame. It made me realize how much I enjoy plush, warm violet notes in perfumery.

Are you familiar with this spray mist version we are sampling from? There are a bunch of the Miss Balmain-style little parfum splashes out there, but not much of this.

 

[grayspoole]

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Are you familiar with this spray mist version we are sampling from? There are a bunch of the Miss Balmain-style little parfum splashes out there, but not much of this.

I am not. That is Cook.bot’s bottle, I believe. I have the parfum and some vintage EDT splashes. Just acquired another EDT because I felt I was running low (spoiler alert: I really wasn’t).

 

[CookBot]

View attachment 450881
Are you familiar with this spray mist version we are sampling from? There are a bunch of the Miss Balmain-style little parfum splashes out there, but not much of this.

Really? At the time I bought the 2-ounce bottle in the photo, it was very plentiful and quite inexpensive, as I recall. Like under $50.

I've had a couple of those little parfum splashes, but as usual I like the EDT better.

 

[Bavard]

Does the spray mist packaging say anything about concentration? I was thinking it was a parfum spray.

I'm trying Bottega Veneta (femme), the 2011 edp. I'm getting modern muskiness that has different facets - a modern soap vibe, and under that, some sweet baked goods. It's a challenging perfume, but I think I could get used to it. It's a bolder choice than I care to make, but I can imagine it paying off for someone else.

I liked the first couple seconds, then the wild musk came in and I was more worried than excited. About an hour later, maybe two, it was softer, and I could smell the coffee shop pastries under the harsh soap.

I'm feeling a bit mixed about it. It's not making my heart sing like vintage Cuir de Lancome and Jolie Madame.

 

[CookBot]

Does the spray mist packaging say anything about concentration? I was thinking it was a parfum spray.

No, it doesn't. I've always thought it might be one of those "pardum de toilettes", which were popular during those days.

Your reaction to the Bottega Veneta EDP was markedly different than anyone I've heard before. No violets for you? No suede leather?

 

[grayspoole]

Does the spray mist packaging say anything about concentration? I was thinking it was a parfum spray.

I’m fairly certain that Cook.bot’s bottle is a spray EDT. We chatted about in the Vintage Balmain thread here:

Vintage Balmain:Jolie Madame

and there are some more bottle photos there.

I‘ve never seen a Jolie Madame PDT, just parfum and EDT. There was also a cologne, seen in some vintage ads reproduced on Grace Hummel‘s Balmain blogpost:

Balmain Perfumes

 

[Bavard]

Your reaction to the Bottega Veneta EDP was markedly different than anyone I've heard before. No violets for you? No suede leather?

I can see "suede leather" as a descriptor for Bottega Veneta. I liked the deep base fairly well. After the tension of the mid there's relief in the base, a classic construction of conflict and resolution. "Violets" didn't occur to me. The note in Jolie Madame is one I think I recognize as violet, completely based on testing other perfumes that are said to smell like violets.

With Fahrenheit, which I'm sampling today, I've also never thought of violet as a note. I guess I can imagine a note in here overlapping with Jolie Madame - maybe, at a stretch, with prompting.

I'm trying the two Fahrenheit samples. I have full bottles of these - or at least close enough: a bottle from 2014 (instead of the 2015 sample) and a bottle from 1991 (instead of the 1989 sample). These samples smell just like what I'm used to. I'm a fan of reformulated Fahrenheit. These two samples smell similar to me.

I get a hint of more natural woods from the older version, which is a nice note, and if I were trying to make the case that the reformulation "just isn't the same," I would try to fixate on this missing woodiness. In reality though, I don't find the reformulation so, so different. And I like the reformulation.

Going by these two samples, and how things are going in the first half hour, I'm feeling a slight preference for the newer version.

It looks like PStoller and Tea_Lilly had somewhat similar experiences with the Fahrenheits. Another up vote from me for Tea_Lilly's posts!

About an hour in, I'm picking up more differences. The older version is turning more old school as it develops - polite, gentlemanly subtlety - and the newer version is holding onto the sweetness from the opening.

I get better longevity from the vintage - easily stronger now about five hours in.

 

[Tea_Lilly]

It looks like PStoller and Tea_Lilly had somewhat similar experiences with the Fahrenheits.

About an hour in, I'm picking up more differences. The older version is turning more old school as it develops - polite, gentlemanly subtlety - and the newer version is holding onto the sweetness from the opening.

I do think we had similar experiences with the Fahrenheits and I agree with your assessments. That twist on the older version at the end was really interesting. I do prefer the modern on this one.

 

[Bavard]

Havana 1990s versus Havana 2015

I've investigated Havana before. This is one of the most discussed perfumes on Basenotes, in my experience.

I've had a couple bottles, and still have one.

Havana is mentioned sometimes as a fragrance that wasn't ruined by IFRA, etc.

Based on this 2015 sample, I would agree. And it's nice to have this experience. I bought a bottle of the newer version, and it would have been more like 2018 than 2015, and I'd heard it was just as good as vintage, but I didn't like it. But I like this 2015 sample.

Early stages, I'm liking the reformulation more.

With Fahrenheit, though, the vintage version showed it's strength in the dry down when the newer version was gone.

But talking early stages, this 2015 Havana is good. A cleaner version of the fragrance than the vintage sample. But I don't think it's going to last. The vintage has the smell of a perfume that is going to be there longer, and might peak later.

An hour in, and I'm finding myself smelling the vintage more. The newer stuff is fading comparatively fast. What was less clean in vintage now smells like sturdiness. At this point, they're not really that much alike anymore. The newer stuff is losing it's way, coming apart. The older stuff has taken on a consolidated soapy vibe. The newer stuff is getting a high-pitched note, a candied floral coming out of solution.

A few hours in: I like both. The reformulation is more unisex to me. The vintage smells like soap from the late 1970s and 1980s. Not all soap, but there was something like this soap smell that was common. I have crossed-wires about this soap note, though. I think it smells masculine but that it was a general purpose bar of soap (i.e., not marketed as masculine). Sort of like Irish Spring, or maybe Safeguard, but warmer. Not really like Coast as much.

The 2015 version keeps pulling me back in. It's a sexy, modern amber now, with just a hint of the candied floral. It seems like the different stages were meant to be, looking back. But it's also fading now, while the vintage soap note is holding on.

I get pushed and pulled by Havana. Today, I have mostly liked it. Only a couple times, out of 50 or more, have I come away from an inhale thinking it was more gross than good. Other days, it has been as much as 60 / 40 in favor of gross.

 

[Bavard]

Salvador Dali and Montana Parfum d'Homme

It turns out these two don't smell that much like each other in the opening. These had both been on my list of Havana smell-alikes. Salvador Dali starts like Puig Sybaris with a big dose of animalic. I'd read that Montana Parfum d'Homme was effectively an oak moss fragrance, and didn't understand that description at the time, but I'm seeing it today. Neither is seeming that much like Havana, but if one of them is closer, it is the Montana.

I'm feeling like the Salvador Dali I tried before wasn't the same as this sample. I've tried other perfumes a lot like this, though. It smells a little out of balance, like they put in too much animalic, but I gather that something extreme is what they were going for.

Montana is so light and polite by comparison. I suppose Montana is fine. It has never really grabbed me, and my preferred take on Havana has been Havana, but Montana is smelling good today - a bit like a summer vacation.

Dali is a good ole raunchy perfume to wear for kicks, good for keeping people guessing.

There is a tiny amount of a Cuba perfume among the samples. I might try to get in wearing of it tonight if one of these fades by then.

About three hours in, these have both developed nicely. I didn't enjoy the opening of Salvador Dal today, but this late mid / early base is ok. The Montana has entered a new phase, more unisex, maybe even on the feminine side.

About four hours in, and now Salvador Dali is ready. Everything up to now was an awkward transition phase. Montana seems fine, but I just don't seem that interested for whatever reason.

 

[CookBot]

Salvador Dali and Montana Parfum d'Homme

These are two I'm looking forward to. They both seem so popular among male Basenoters, and I don't think I've ever smelled either of them.

There is a tiny amount of a Cuba perfume among the samples. I might try to get in wearing of it tonight if one of these fades by then.

Is that Czech and Speake Cuba? I seem to have lost track; do we know who added that to the pass? I don't see it on the spreadsheet.

 

[PStoller]

Is that Czech and Speake Cuba? I seem to have lost track; do we know who added that to the pass? I don't see it on the spreadsheet.

I added it by request, and I'm supposed to have mailed Bavard a new sample, which I confess I have not done. If there's time for it to make the cut, I can get that out tomorrow.

 

[Bavard]

We’re actually having an intermission now anyway for a Pittsburgh trip.

 

[CookBot]

We’re actually having an intermission now anyway for a Pittsburgh trip.

Ah, the city that puts French fries on its salads.

 

[seanniedazzler]

Ah, the city that puts French fries on its salads.

Sorry to derail the thread, but a perfect opportunity to wear Anthracite or an Andy Warhol fragrance!

 

[Bavard]

Ah, the city that puts French fries on its salads.

We just walked by this menu with a Pittsburgh salad.

 

[CookBot]

We just walked by this menu with a Pittsburgh salad.

Ha! Seems like a bargain with steak for $19.

 

[Bavard]

Pittsburgh was good. I'm a fan.

Today I'm trying the Or Blacks. They're fairly different.

I've never smelled the modern Or Black until just now. It is definitely interesting.

On its own, vintage Or Black smells like a crossover between classic and modern. With modern Or Black in the mix, the vintage smells full-on old school. Vintage Or Black is making me imagine that I'm in a leather processing facility. In moments, it smells like straight cattle.

Modern Or Black, being worn on the other side, smells nothing / much less like cattle to me. It has more of a foodie note. And/or maybe a makeup note.

Both are nice. I think this vintage sample is in great shape - super leathery.

I'm finding some magic in the newer version, too.

I'll try to update this post later with notes on development.

Confusingly, after some coffee and fresh air, I took a whiff of the modern, and I thought I was smelling the vintage.

 

[CookBot]

It has more a foodie note.

Really?? What kind of food might that be?

 

[Bavard]

Really?? What kind of food might that be?

Something good. A dish with saffron rice is the most persistent image coming to mind.

In the later stages, the newer Or Black is edging it. I'm getting better staying power from the newer stuff. It's not really close.

During a period in the middle phase, they were pretty much the same. At this point, the vintage is easily fainter - not gone completely, but a quiet skin scent. The newer stuff is still projecting. It's performing like it's in the middle phase more than the base.