Reformulations.

[SteveInCNY]

Hello All,
I have been reading more and more and watching reviews etc. and it seems some people will say that the juice "used to be fantastic in 1998, but the new formulation sucks." and I'm using 1998 as an example. So my question is, is there any validity to this? I understand opinions are subjective, but I'm thinking like a new guy like me, what am I supposed to do? just not buy any cologne that was reformulated? Or just look for all "pre-reformulation" bottles? I tried Joop! Homme, many people on different sites said that it was reformulated and now doesn't have the projection or lasting power it used to. Well my brand new bottle arrived and I happen to like the scent, one spray lasts me FOREVER and projection is marvelous. So either I got a pre-reformulation bottle, or I got a "magic" bottle that happened to be okay, or the people saying this don't know what they are talking about. Also true, is I never smelled an old bottle of the stuff, so maybe compared to the old stuff this stuff is weak. I just can't believe someone saying what I have is weak compared to anything. Just looking for ideas and opinions here. Thanks!
-Steve E.

 

[hednic]

I understand opinions are subjective, but I'm thinking like a new guy like me, what am I supposed to do?

You sample whenever possible and judge for yourself whether you like it or not.

 

[sjg3839]

Agreed

You sample whenever possible and judge for yourself whether you like it or not.

 

[freewheelingvagabond]

Try it. If you like it enough, buy it.

 

[Deleted member 13385235]

Yup. If you don't know the vintage then you aren't missing anything so rock the current version.



But buy a backup if you like it, just in case they reformulate

 

[Hawky454]

Don't buy into the reformulation hyperbole.

 

[Twilight99]

People are going on and on about reformulations all the time. In my experience it's just not a big deal. People just come here and read about it, and start to worry and writing about it. Your sense of smell can vary from day to day, and this is often the reason many worry. There are of course legitimate worries about some fragrance, but the whole thing is blown out of proportion in my opinion.

What people seem to ignore, is that some fragrances are reformulated to the better. Check the new reformulation of Chanel Egoiste for example. This year the formulation got a big improvement.

Conclusion; stop worrying what other people think and use your own nose. It's the only way to find what is right for you.

 

[Bigsly]

The short/easy answer is that if scents are more or less an olfactory blur to you, then it probably doesn't matter. If, however, you smell a scent and say things like, "wow, that's a nice yet subtle sandalwood note," many if not most of the reformulations (of let's say pre-1995 vintage) will likely disappoint you.

 

[dealt7faux]

The "magic bottle" is the one you like the best.
The other stuff will come in time should you choose to expand your fragrance knowledge

 

[petukchele]

You sample whenever possible and judge for yourself whether you like it or not.

this

 

[Tmoran]

Hello All,
I have been reading more and more and watching reviews etc. and it seems some people will say that the juice "used to be fantastic in 1998, but the new formulation sucks." and I'm using 1998 as an example. So my question is, is there any validity to this? I understand opinions are subjective, but I'm thinking like a new guy like me, what am I supposed to do? just not buy any cologne that was reformulated? Or just look for all "pre-reformulation" bottles? I tried Joop! Homme, many people on different sites said that it was reformulated and now doesn't have the projection or lasting power it used to. Well my brand new bottle arrived and I happen to like the scent, one spray lasts me FOREVER and projection is marvelous. So either I got a pre-reformulation bottle, or I got a "magic" bottle that happened to be okay, or the people saying this don't know what they are talking about. Also true, is I never smelled an old bottle of the stuff, so maybe compared to the old stuff this stuff is weak. I just can't believe someone saying what I have is weak compared to anything. Just looking for ideas and opinions here. Thanks!
-Steve E.

I would not worry about reformulations unless money is not object. Do reformulations happen? Yes. Are they as bad as some make it? It depends on the scent. But you cant miss what you havent had. And if you try and like a different formulation it may mean you would like the older version less as you cut your teeth on the current one and that is the smell your mind will forever associate with that fragrance.

Another thing to consider is that what i remember a scent smelling like and what it actually smelt like may not be accurate. Our perceptions of scent at least for me constantly evolve. Scents i used to like i no longer care for. And fragrances i once despised are now my favorites. So if our perception of scents can change then maybe it is to some degree that we outgrow something and the scent is actually very close but our new impression of it is altered as we grew and evolved.

Now some may say "but i have a pre reformulation bottle and it smells nothing like the nee one. Fair enough but one thing that can and does happen many times is a scent will degrade over time. Slowly. Slow enough that changes may not register as they are so gradual. The bottle you buy today will not smell identical in ten years. There are so many factors at play. Especially if its a scent that has been around a decade or longer. And above all the hypotheticals reformulations are hear to stay no matter how many of us stomp our feet. I just dont see anyone taking the head of this beast so we either pay niche prices for vintage juice and stress out over even finding the stuff or you play the hand given to you and make the best of it. The only people i really feel for are the guys who wear a scent for years and it is them through and through and it gets discontinued.

 

[cacio]

I agree with what others said. It depends on the case.

Reformulations are a problem, for a couple of reason. The main one is that recently the aromachemical lobbying association, for reasons we've been discussing here forever, have severely restricted the use of many ingredients (a key one being oakmoss). In addition, some materials have become unavailable or too expensive (eg sandalwood). Finally, it is sometimes the case that perfume companies cheapen the formulation of a perfume.

The effects of these factors vary. Sometimes they are irrelevant. Other times they are relevant, but the perfumer has substituted these materials with others, obtaining something that's different but still good and enjoyable. Sometimes the results are very negative however. Note incidentally that the effects, if any, are most notable in the drydown - so sometimes the top seems fine, then one hour in it's completely different. Also, I think that on average femine perfumes, which in the past were always stronger and richer, have been affected more than masculine ones.

cacio

 

[Mitchapalooza]

You can check your fragrances manufacture date on checkcosmetic.net

 

[Darjeeling]

No, no. Everything has been reformulated and is now crap. In fact, might as well stop wearing fragrance altogether.

 

[SteveInCNY]

Haha thanks all for the replies.. This is kind of where I was headed in my own brain. I was thinking, I'm just gonna still buy stuff and if I like the way it smells, so be it, if I don't I'll prolly still hang on to it for my collection or sell/trade it online lol. Darjeeling, haha its so funny you posted that because thats exactly what runs through my mind when I read some things online. Stuff like, well, in 2003 this stuff was great, but now since the reformulation it sucks so don't waste your time. LOL!

 

[hitman]

You sample whenever possible and judge for yourself whether you like it or not.

^ exactly to the point.

 

[uhbhatti88]

From my experience:

My dad wore fahrenheit (i was born in 1988) all my childhood. After 1995 (when i was 7), i next smelled a bottle of fahrenheit in 2009. It was not the same. I kept thinking my memory was at fault, until in 2014 i got a vintage bottle (from 1999) and it smelled exactly as it should have.

I smelled a sample of M7 when it launched around Christmas 2002. For years i had one tiny sample. I smelled the first reformulation bottle (brown sticker) in 2009. It was not the same. In 2012 I happened to find an old all-brown bottle in the back of a store, i smelled it and it was the same.

There is only one reformulation that i know of that actually did a job so good i felt at home when i used it - Yohji Homme.

So all in all, the more distinctive a fragrance, and the better you have gotten to know it (through repeated wearings and by paying attention to it), the uneasier you will be when you smell a change in the air.

If my first time smelling a perfume is the reformulated one, and it smells good in itself, I'm satisfied and dont hunt for vintages at all, even if the changes are reportedly "drastic". Some examples: Dior Homme & Intense. Guerlain Vetiver, Habit Rouge, & Derby. Most Lutens, Frederic Malle. Knize Ten. Givenchy III. This could be a pretty long list.

So while it is true that there are so many factors at play, if you find something today that you truly love and wear, buy two bottles. Don't sweat stuff that was before your time (great classics are an exception, for academic reasons and not, for me at least, emotional connections)




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[Bigsly]

I would not worry about reformulations unless money is not object. Do reformulations happen? Yes. Are they as bad as some make it? It depends on the scent. But you cant miss what you havent had. And if you try and like a different formulation it may mean you would like the older version less as you cut your teeth on the current one and that is the smell your mind will forever associate with that fragrance.

Another thing to consider is that what i remember a scent smelling like and what it actually smelt like may not be accurate. Our perceptions of scent at least for me constantly evolve. Scents i used to like i no longer care for. And fragrances i once despised are now my favorites. So if our perception of scents can change then maybe it is to some degree that we outgrow something and the scent is actually very close but our new impression of it is altered as we grew and evolved.

Now some may say "but i have a pre reformulation bottle and it smells nothing like the nee one. Fair enough but one thing that can and does happen many times is a scent will degrade over time. Slowly. Slow enough that changes may not register as they are so gradual. The bottle you buy today will not smell identical in ten years. There are so many factors at play. Especially if its a scent that has been around a decade or longer. And above all the hypotheticals reformulations are hear to stay no matter how many of us stomp our feet. I just dont see anyone taking the head of this beast so we either pay niche prices for vintage juice and stress out over even finding the stuff or you play the hand given to you and make the best of it. The only people i really feel for are the guys who wear a scent for years and it is them through and through and it gets discontinued.

It's important not to bring in another issue which serves to obfuscate the discussion in favor of the "pro reformulation" side of things. That is, I'd be the first to mention that I used to wear vintage more often, and that some vintage I don't like as much as I used to, whereas others I like more. This, however, has nothing to do with my perception of the "quality" of the scent. Now sometimes I don't feel the need to wear a quality scent, and I often reach for a "super cheapo," but if I'm in the mood for vintage Zino, for example, that's what I want. I have no interest in wearing what I believe to be reformulated Zino, ever. Others can't detect any difference, or claim it is negligible. That's fine, but it has absolutely nothing to do with what I want to buy or wear. And that's why my first response referenced how you perceive and appreciate these concoctions - that is what matters, and nobody can read your mind, so the best you can do is read the relevant information online and try to make the right decision (but it will only be the right decision for you, not necessarily for anyone else).

And I have found that vintage holds up incredibly well over the decades. If your experience is different and that has led you to avoid vintage, I applaud your strong decision-making qualities, but again, that has nothing to do with my decisions in this context. If you don't like it when others talk about how much they like their vintage scents, then just ignore them - why post something that suggests you think they are deluded, lying, or wasting their time? It's a hobby, and the internet provides places like BN to share opinions and information, so of course there are going to be threads on the subject! I remember when I investigated the world of fine art works on paper, some people thought pop art was "garbage" and laughed at the prices, yet that would have been a much better investment than something like op art or minimalism, that's for sure (generally-speaking). And with scents, most are not trying to "cash in," but just seeking out what they consider to be the best scents ever made. Some people might eat any pizza that put in front of them, whereas others only want "quality" pizza, and even if the restaurant is out of anchovies, and they'd really prefer it that way, they are not going to eat the "garbage" pizza because that restaurant didn't run out of anchovies. LOL. So, it may be true that top notes are sometimes "messed up" (which is irrelevant to me) or that base notes have shifted slightly, because they are still head and shoulders above everything else! Again, if you think that's not the case, then go ahead and be happy with your decision, but that has nothing to do with me.

And as to money being no object if you want to buy vintage, exactly where are you looking for them? I've got so many great vintage deals, just on ebay alone, that I wouldn't want to think about putting a list of those together! Even if you pay "high" prices," how do they compare to the prices being asked at the local dept. store for the usual generic/synthetic dreck? There are only a small number that sell for "big bucks" in vintage: PPH, Derby, Egoiste Cologne Concentree. Others with prices that high are usually an ebay seller's wishful thinking, as I have waited for great deals on many of those and was rewarded. It's more an issue of patience with probably at least 90% vintage, if you want to pay at current dept. store prices or lower, in my experience.

 

[Darjeeling]

Personally I can't be bothered spending the time and money searching out vintage and seeing whether I prefer it. Others are, of course, free to do whatever they want with their time and money. If I like what's currently available I'll buy it. I t me to still be exploring more modern scents anyway.
On the other hand, I can see how, if one has used a certain scent in a certain formulation and love it as is, one would be sorely disappointed with any change so I understand how people completely write off reformulations. It strikes me as an expression of their emotions rather than an attempt to be objective about the reformulation. Any change is an affront.
Then again, I think it can get a bit hysterical and almost paranoid when suspicions of reformulations are discussed. I suspect in some cases there are issues with scent memory being obscured by time as well as the fact that bottles are used over a number of years meaning that perhaps no two bottles age in exactly the same way.

 

[Bigsly]

Personally I can't be bothered spending the time and money searching out vintage and seeing whether I prefer it. Others are, of course, free to do whatever they want with their time and money. If I like what's currently available I'll buy it. I t me to still be exploring more modern scents anyway.
On the other hand, I can see how, if one has used a certain scent in a certain formulation and love it as is, one would be sorely disappointed with any change so I understand how people completely write off reformulations. It strikes me as an expression of their emotions rather than an attempt to be objective about the reformulation. Any change is an affront.
Then again, I think it can get a bit hysterical and almost paranoid when suspicions of reformulations are discussed. I suspect in some cases there are issues with scent memory being obscured by time as well as the fact that bottles are used over a number of years meaning that perhaps no two bottles age in exactly the same way.

That could be true for others but I came upon this the other way around. I bought the reformulations first, heard the reformulation "hysteria" (which never seems hysterical to me), and dismissed it. But then I began to understand "quality" and came upon some vintage formulations, and eventually couldn't stand most of the reformulations (as a newbie I basically didn't have a perception of "synthetic"). I had just about no memory of "vintage greats" before 2008, nor any real understanding of what made them special. And there's no need for a lot of time to be spent - just go to the BN sales forum or the Crystal Flacon site. There are plenty of people who will put a bunch of decants or samples together at a reasonable price, no more than you'll spend on the latest designer scent at the mall (at least that's where my pricing is at for most vintage I can decant).