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Raw material dissolution

Gabrielle22

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Feb 10, 2023
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Hello,

I am super new to perfumery. I have a done a lot of research on this subject but I can't seem to find the answer I am looking for.
I bought the first 2 beginner kits of raw materials from perwall, and some ingrediants (like ambroxan) are already diluted to 10% in DPG. I suppose it's to make sure it' in liquid form.

That being said, Should I dilute it again in alcohol before I use it to make an accord? I that's the casem I believe it should be 90% alcohol and 10% ambroxan (from my understanding but I might be so wrong.)

Also, how much time do you have to wait for a dilution to be ready to be in an accord.

Thank you in advance for your help.
 

David Ruskin

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May 28, 2009
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You need to smell each of the ingredients in your starter packs separately; on their own. You need to find out how long they last on a smelling strip, and how strong they are. You need to try to describe the smells of each ingredient; what they smell like to you.

Once you have done that you will know whether or not you need to further dilute any ingredient, because you will know how strong it is.

There are very few rules in perfumery. Usually when the question is "How long should I?", or just "Should I?", the answer is usually "It is your decision".
 

pkiler

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You don't need to dilute the ambroxan, again.
You don't need to wait after dilution to use.

But as David says, smell the materials, and learn them, this gives you a foundation to understand them much better...
 

mnitabach

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With tremendous deference to David & Paul, smelling your materials on their own & seeing how "strong" they each smell is not really at all a useful guide to how they should be dosed in your compositions, and thus to how much they should be diluted (if at all) in your working stocks.
 

Darren Alan

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Everyone has given you good advice so far. But I'm going to be the free radical in the group and suggest that you make evaluation dilutions of everything at 10% (except for the Ambroxan & materials that hsve already come pre-diluted).

I'm not sure what materials are included in your kit...but many aromachemicals are difficult to smell at 100%. Or they take on different qualities & portray different characteristics in dilution that you will never encounter if only smelling them neat.

When I get a new material in, I make 3 evaluation dilutions...20%, 10% and either 5% or 1% (depending on the material). Then I make blotter for each of those dilutions, plus neat at 100%. Then I smell them and make notes of what I notice and at what dilution. Do this over several hours/days until there is nothing left on the blotter to evaluate. Notate the time stamps for each entry so you have the data for each material at various dilutions and so you can learn how the materials change over time and the nuances you observe at various dilutions.

Smelling & learning the characteristics of a new material is one of my greatest joys in perfumery. It's always a new adventure! Enjoy & have fun! 😃
 

David Ruskin

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May 28, 2009
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With tremendous deference to David & Paul, smelling your materials on their own & seeing how "strong" they each smell is not really at all a useful guide to how they should be dosed in your compositions, and thus to how much they should be diluted (if at all) in your working stocks.
With great respect to you Mike, I have found, during the course of 30 years in perfumery, that getting to understand individual ingredients is the only way to start understanding how they work together. Getting a knowledge of strength makes you dose correctly, almost without thinking about it.
 

mnitabach

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With great respect to you Mike, I have found, during the course of 30 years in perfumery, that getting to understand individual ingredients is the only way to start understanding how they work together. Getting a knowledge of strength makes you dose correctly, almost without thinking about it.
I think I should have qualified my assertion by saying that this is my own experience & it was a mistake for me to have asserted it as a general rule. Because I actually think that in perfumery, as in other very complex creative pursuits, there are multiple routes to expertise. And it is definitely true also that I have indeed devoted substantial time & effort to studying individual materials. I just have also found that I am almost always surprised by what my materials do in compositions & that it is very unpredictable from how they "smell" and how "strong" they smell.
 

David Ruskin

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You are, of course, right Mike. However becoming familiar with the characteristics of individual ingredients makes their communal behaviour come as less of a shock.
 

_delayed

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Jan 11, 2023
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When I get a new material in, I make 3 evaluation dilutions...20%, 10% and either 5% or 1%
@Darren Alan Hi there...thank you for sharing about your process. I'm in the material evaluation phase of having just started perfumery and I have been diluting and testing at 10%. I'd so love to sample my stuff at lower concentrations, but my question is...how do you manage the space requirements of breaking down each material into three vials? I'd love to hear some space saving tips on this (or maybe it just DOES take up a ton of space and there's no getting around it). As a stop gap, I've been noting the strength to my nose of each material at 10%, so as to remember which ones might be better evaluated in lower concentrations.
 

Darren Alan

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@Darren Alan Hi there...thank you for sharing about your process. I'm in the material evaluation phase of having just started perfumery and I have been diluting and testing at 10%. I'd so love to sample my stuff at lower concentrations, but my question is...how do you manage the space requirements of breaking down each material into three vials? I'd love to hear some space saving tips on this (or maybe it just DOES take up a ton of space and there's no getting around it). As a stop gap, I've been noting the strength to my nose of each material at 10%, so as to remember which ones might be better evaluated in lower concentrations.
Eh.....well I never said that this was a space saving technique 🤣 I struggle with space issues constantly and I admit that despite my efforts, my bench is seldom neat or organized. I use little 5mL Serum vials for the lower dilutions usually...unless it's a high impact material like an aldehyde, etc...then I'll use my regular 10mL bottles because I will use those lower dilutions to sketch out accords, etc. But yes space is an issue & unfortunately I don't have a solution for you 🤷🏼‍♂️
 

pkiler

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My dilution tip is to have your main bottle, with diltions taped to it, so that when you locate the main bottle, you have your dilutions also.
In some cases, I have three dilutions attached to the main bottle, in smaller vials.
Yes, even advanced people struggle with space issues. I'll tell ya, I'm happy when I can somehow get rid of a bottle. HAHA!
 

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Darren Alan

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Apr 20, 2019
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My dilution tip is to have your main bottle, with diltions taped to it, so that when you locate the main bottle, you have your dilutions also.
In some cases, I have three dilutions attached to the main bottle, in smaller vials.
Yes, even advanced people struggle with space issues. I'll tell ya, I'm happy when I can somehow get rid of a bottle. HAHA!
That's a great idea Paul! I keep my dilutions in the same basket as the undiluted bottle (unless it's a Kg size) but I still have to search through the basket...this is a great time saving tip! I would have never thought of it! 😃
 

_delayed

New member
Jan 11, 2023
24
3
Eh.....well I never said that this was a space saving technique 🤣 I struggle with space issues constantly and I admit that despite my efforts, my bench is seldom neat or organized. I use little 5mL Serum vials for the lower dilutions usually...unless it's a high impact material like an aldehyde, etc...then I'll use my regular 10mL bottles because I will use those lower dilutions to sketch out accords, etc. But yes space is an issue & unfortunately I don't have a solution for you 🤷🏼‍♂️
ok that makes sense : D I was just worried I might be missing something.
 

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