Quality of ingredients

[David Ruskin]

This has been prompted by recent discussions concerning geranyl acetate and alpha terpineol.

I am concerned that some people trying to do perfumery on Basenotes are using ingredients that are not of the best quality. What worries me is that unless you know what an ingredient should smell like, how can you tell if what you have is correct? It worries me that many will think that their contaminated, old, gone off, aromachemicals and essential oils are smelling and behaving correctly. How do you know that what you have is as it should be?

Also, if you buy the same ingredient from different suppliers, do you all carry out proper QC procedures?

I'm afraid that I don't have any answers but I hope there may be some.

 

[PeeWee678]

Excellent question that has been bothering me since I started perfumery (just a hobby for me BTW) 1.5 years ago.

I'm afraid it comes with the territory and it's part of the journey when you don't have immediate access to quality materials. I'm pretty sure the aroma chemicals I purchased are fine overall but I have to admit I did purchase some naturals in the past -when I just started out- that were below par or even plain bad because, back then, I only had access to Hekserij (on my limited budget, importing from the US or even the UK is much more expensive). Since Hekserij doesn't carry a wide range of naturals I bought some naturals at those "generic essential oils shops".

Since I discovered Perfumiarz, Scentfriends and Liason Carbone I have been able to extend (and replace part of) my collection with higher quality ones. For example: initially I thought Clary sage was extremely terpenic, with no redeeming quality at all and nothing what I read about it corresponded to what I smelled (it also smelled nothing like the Clary sage absolute I had). Until I bought some Biolandes Clary sage at Perfumiarz. The stuff that I had before went straight to the bin and only then I knew (or at least: I thought (!) I knew) what Clasry sage is supposed to smell like.

But then again: I'm pretty sure that, even now, not nearly all naturals I own are of the highest quality. But what can you do when you're on a budget?
I do keep track of the expiration dates and restock when necessary to ensure I'm not using materials with off notes.

 

[Culpa Ire]

I suppose, without any benchmark, one has to make a decision based on the composition. If you achieve what was set out in the brief and you’re happy with it then the material could be said to be useful regardless of whether or not it has spoiled/aged badly. Of course, this could, in theory, give rise to complete loathing of a perfume once you get to smell the same thing made from higher quality/fresher materials, but by the time you’re in a position to purchase fresher and larger batches that, again, in theory, would be of higher quality, you probably won’t really give two shits about earlier versions or trials.

This lack of knowledge or benchmark merely highlights the disadvantage at which most hobbyists find themselves. If you were to undertake a professional course or school it wouldn’t be too much to expect a degree of freshness of materials being demonstrated or used for educative purposes. That isn’t a statement of fact, just something I'd hope would be the case.

 

[RomanB]

I have two major suppliers, with them I open every bottle and canister from a shipment right at a warehouse and sniff it, if it is spoiled of or a wrong quality, I refuse to sign that a particular ingredient was delivered at all. It happened with hydroxycitronellal, phenylethyl alcohol, phenylethyl butyrate, alpha ionone and fake vetiver essential oil. Vetiver was faked using Vetival severely diluted in DEP, and the manager was arguing that "it is genuine since doesn't smell "off" and, well, who knows which varieties of vetiver exist?"

With lesser suppliers and internet-orders It is always a lottery.

 

[Hedione HC]

With regard to essential oils and absolutes, I would like to point out that these substances differ significantly from the ACs in that they do not have a really exact-defined smell. This natural variability makes an assessment particularly difficult and can actually only be achieved through (years of) experience. Occasionally, when reading some comments, I have the impression that natural odor fluctuations/differences are too quickly viewed as inferior or bad. From my experience I would say that it is not necessarily helpful to always have the "best", the "ideal" oil in mind* when choosing or buying. I think that's an illusion that needs to be broken. Naturals are too diverse and complex to be reduced to a single "gold standard oil".

*) What you have in mind maybe quite far away from nature's reality and the actual smell of quality naturals.

 

[Tharrys78]

What worries me is that unless you know what an ingredient should smell like, how can you tell if what you have is correct?

Personally, as of now I don't know personally any other hobby perfumer to check "his materials" (except for a short course I took at a perfume factory, where I asked to smell their nerol to ascertain if the "pungent" after-scent of my batch was normal). One can try to educate himself (like, in said thread on terpineol), check other people experiences, or test a batch from another supplier if they suspect they don't have the legit thing.
Should I get to the point of wanting to commercially produce perfumes , I'd rely on professionals for manufacturing / bottling etc. so the problem is only for materials I use for education and / or fun .
TL;DR personally I am concerned and I try to do whatever I reasonably can

 

[David Ruskin]

With regard to essential oils and absolutes, I would like to point out that these substances differ significantly from the ACs in that they do not have a really exact-defined smell. This natural variability makes an assessment particularly difficult and can actually only be achieved through (years of) experience. Occasionally, when reading some comments, I have the impression that natural odor fluctuations/differences are too quickly viewed as inferior or bad. From my experience I would say that it is not necessarily helpful to always have the "best", the "ideal" oil in mind* when choosing or buying. I think that's an illusion that needs to be broken. Naturals are too diverse and complex to be reduced to a single "gold standard oil".

*) What you have in mind maybe quite far away from nature's reality and the actual smell of quality naturals.

Maybe professionals and amateurs regard this differently but the most important thing we were taught about QC was to maintain consistency of quality. Find the right quality of an ingredient and stick to it. That consistency applies to both single, simple aroma chemicals; and complex essential oils and absolutes. It doesn't really matter if the sample is 100% pure ( and in the case of essential oils and absolutes it is rarely the case), what is important is that each sample of that ingredient be the same as the last. One should always compare a new sample with a standard. A standard is an old sample that is thought of as acceptable. Of course there is a greater likelihood of batch variation with essential oils and absolutes, what is necessary is to keep that variation to a minimum. It is not possible to judge anything without comparing it to something.

Maybe I am making too much of this. Most people who come on here are not that concerned, just like to play. Or am I wrong?

 

[PeeWee678]

One should always compare a new sample with a standard. A standard is an old sample that is thought of as acceptable. Of course there is a greater likelihood of batch variation with essential oils and absolutes, what is necessary is to keep that variation to a minimum. It is not possible to judge anything without comparing it to something.

Maybe I am making too much of this. Most people who come on here are not that concerned, just like to play. Or am I wrong?

I like to play and to me it's just a hobby in that I have no commercial interests but I certainly value consistency and indeed I do compare restocked materials with my older ones (particularly naturals) so I can adjust if necessary. I don't want to just blindly mess around with my materials; a certain degree of discipline goes a long way.

 

[Hedione HC]

@David Ruskin I totally agree. Maybe I shouldn't have commented on this topic, because in a way I'm not a typical user. What has primarily interested and excited me about essential oils and absolutes for over 35 years is the scent of the oils themselves - not the mixing and creating of perfumes. Of course, I've also gotten to know numerous ACs over the years and I'm probably also able to create simple fragrances. But the real fascination for me is that the naturals can be so different. And that doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing - at least not for me.
I can understand why (diy) perfumers are interested in excluding fluctuations (batch variations) as far as possible. Perhaps everyone has to ask themselves what is important to them: continuity or variability?
Let’s take lavender oil (Lavandula angustifolia) as an example. There is hardly any other essential oil that has such a complex composition and such a wide range of fragrances. (I'm considering opening a separate thread for the topic of lavender oil in the near future, since a closer look at the oil, its ingredients and the different olfactory types is really interesting.) When it came to lavender oil, I would have serious problems focusing on just one oil to restrict. Lavender oil - assuming it is of good quality - can have so many different attractive facets and expressions that just one oil cannot express it.

Sorry if this is (too) off-topic.

 

[David Ruskin]

I don't think it off topic at all Hedione HC, and thank you for posting. We all have our own reasons for being interested in perfumery, and smell in general. We should never forget just how pleasurable smelling stuff is.

It may be that the insistence on maintaining the same batch quality will prevent the enjoyment of the variety shown by different batches of, supposedly, the same product. That is a shame too.

 

[fragrantregard]

Speaking for myself, having purchased materials from all DIY suppliers in the US, and having worked for a large manufacturer, I think most of the synthetics available to those on this forum are more or less qualitative. On the contrary, I've observed large quality variation in a variety of natural products (citruses, floral absolutes, etc).

I have also observed many DIY posters storing their materials in subpar conditions; no refrigeration, exposure to light, bottles less than half full, etc. etc. This is, to me, is the larger issue. But, in general, most of the DIY-available, synthetic products are perfectly useable.

Knowing how something 'should' smell is more difficult. Even if a product is perfectly fresh, and of the highest quality, someone who never before smelled it may reasonably have doubts about its purity if simply reading descriptions on this forum. This problem strikes me as rather intractable, especially given the pervasive aversion some have to to really learning individual raw materials by heart.

 

[Hedione HC]

(...)
Knowing how something 'should' smell is more difficult. Even if a product is perfectly fresh, and of the highest quality, someone who never before smelled it may reasonably have doubts about its purity if simply reading descriptions on this forum. This problem strikes me as rather intractable, especially given the pervasive aversion some have to to really learning individual raw materials by heart.

Can't agree more with that. You're right on the money with the last sentence!

 

[ScentAle]

David good point. It's super nice to have in hand high quality materials, especially when is possible to understand the best choice to do after multiple experience, but for many materials I sincerely haven't idea if they have good quality or not, because many of that I bought only from the same vendor, so I can't compare with other suppliers.
With many other, i understood the better choice only in a second time after reading true infos or after more aquisitions, and material after material, the difference in a perfume can be so much.

 

[chyprefresh]

How can consistency be expected when even commercial perfumes change so often? Many naturals deviate when harvested at a different time, maybe it was an El Nino year, too much moisture, too dry etc, who knows? Unfortunately perfumery is such a niche hobby that there is no gold standard place(s) you can go to to double check everything for QC. Few places like this exist outside Europe. And the sheer amount of ingredients makes it impractical.

As a hobbyist buying a stock of ingredients is nothing less than a gamble and hoping the description on TGSC or the sellers site matches your perceived notions. That's just the way it is.

 

[David Ruskin]

Knowing how something 'should' smell is more difficult. Even if a product is perfectly fresh, and of the highest quality, someone who never before smelled it may reasonably have doubts about its purity if simply reading descriptions on this forum. This problem strikes me as rather intractable, especially given the pervasive aversion some have to to really learning individual raw materials by heart.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[David Ruskin]

How can consistency be expected when even commercial perfumes change so often? Many naturals deviate when harvested at a different time, maybe it was an El Nino year, too much moisture, too dry etc, who knows? Unfortunately perfumery is such a niche hobby that there is no gold standard place(s) you can go to to double check everything for QC. Few places like this exist outside Europe. And the sheer amount of ingredients makes it impractical.

As a hobbyist buying a stock of ingredients is nothing less than a gamble and hoping the description on TGSC or the sellers site matches your perceived notions. That's just the way it is.

Consistency is expected, and reputable suppliers provide it. It is possible to maintain fairly consistent quality between batches of naturals by careful blending.

 

[jsweet]

How can consistency be expected when even commercial perfumes change so often? Many naturals deviate when harvested at a different time, maybe it was an El Nino year, too much moisture, too dry etc, who knows? Unfortunately perfumery is such a niche hobby that there is no gold standard place(s) you can go to to double check everything for QC. Few places like this exist outside Europe. And the sheer amount of ingredients makes it impractical.

As a hobbyist buying a stock of ingredients is nothing less than a gamble and hoping the description on TGSC or the sellers site matches your perceived notions. That's just the way it is.

Lots of good points here regarding the distinction between independent hobbyists and commercial perfumers. Technically, if you are a hobbyist blending only for yourself, then consistency really only matters to the extent that you wish to compound one of your formulas a second time. I have little reason to make identical trials, but ultimately I want some assurance that the impact of my formulas can be reproduced.

Consistency becomes a priority in commerce, for obvious reasons. Even when old perfumes are reformulated, each bottle of the reformulation must offer the same product. As hobbyists, we have the luxury not to worry about things like material quality consistency, supply chain consistency, budgetary consistency etc. It opens up a lot more space for creativity when the market isn't dictating your expression.